Delve Weapons Only |
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Delve weapons only
Leviathan.Kaparu said: » Valefor.Sehachan said: » What I meant is, of course between two strangers you'll take the one better equipped, but if you know someone who's good with a 99 r/e I don't see a point in taking the blind shot over him. Which I've very openly agreed with It's the idea that standards are suddenly evil that I find absurd Talking to Ihina instead is like throwing a ball at a blind person. Valefor.Prothescar said: » The exclusions in this case are night and day, however. Precedence doesn't make it any less stupid; how you can deny the fact that two players of equally poor skill are going to perform any sort of leaps and bounds over one another just because one has a better weapon is beyond me considering your level of intelligence; fact of the matter is delve requires more than just a shiny weapon to succeed in, unlike pretty much any other event in recent memory. You know how percentages work. Leviathan.Kaparu said: » This is just suddenly unspeakably cruel and arbitrary, even though it makes a larger difference than virtually anything else we've used to set a standard You're twisting my argument into something that it's not, which I do not appreciate. Kindly reread my posts and find a bit where I say anything akin to this and am not simply calling out the ridiculousness of thinking that a weapon alone is making someone more relevant in Delve. You're absolutely right. A weapon that substantially increases the damage output of a player whose sole role is to deal damage is certainly not relevant in this event
And enough with the accuracy rubbish. Have one of the bards switch to a madrigal if you can't convince anyone to grab a stack of sushi Having the audacity to insinuate that I'm being ridiculous when you're suddenly of the mind that an ~15-100% increase in a bad player's damage output has suddenly ceased to matter.. that's really something
But hey, we're just talking about ten years of arbitrary precedence, right I think he just meant that if you really want to discriminate then don't do it just by the main slot.
Having 4 DRKs with Bereaver and sporting 4/5 AF3+2 and an Ogier's Surcoat didn't allow them to suddenly be able to kill Tax'et, among other SAMs sporting the same kind of stuff.
There is a limit to how much you can enhance a bad player. You're overextending the effect of the weapons by a fair amount, however it's evident that neither side of this is likely to move on their stance due to differing viewpoints. I'll continue with my belief that idiots will be idiots and a weapon will make them no more worth a leech spot in my party than any other idiot, and you can continue believing that a Bereaver will somehow make that DRK who's doing an amazing 50k dmg in an entire Delve run worth having in that slot.
The fact that you're rationalizing this so blindly is pretty telling, and your immediate militant expression toward the argument is... disturbing. Your argument is flawed, your idea behind it is meaningless and does not work, but I do not expect you to understand why until you stop looking at things with tunnel vision and attempting to use precedence as a reason to rationalize ridiculousness. There's nothing unreasonable about picking your standardization battles
It's quite simple and quite efficacious to set the bar at the players' weapon Valefor.Prothescar said: » You're overextending the effect of the weapons by a fair amount, however it's evident that neither side of this is likely to move on their stance due to differing viewpoints. I'll continue with my belief that idiots will be idiots and a weapon will make them no more worth a leech spot in my party than any other idiot, and you can continue believing that a Bereaver will somehow make that DRK who's doing an amazing 50k dmg in an entire Delve run worth having in that slot. The fact that you're rationalizing this so blindly is pretty telling, and your immediate militant expression toward the argument is... disturbing. Almost as disturbing as your suddenly having forgotten how percentages work Someone just wants the last word at this point I think.
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Please show me which Plasm weapon is increasing someone's damage by one hundred percent over a 99 r/m/e. I'm absolutely curious.
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Sure the weapon is the most immediate thing you can factor, however it is not an assurance for the player's performance.
Unrelated, necessary reiteration:
Leviathan.Kaparu said: » 1) Idiots with good weapons are better than idiots with bad weapons 2) Hardly anyone actually demands Delve weapons for Delve 3) Even if most people demanded Delve weapons for Delve, there are very simple avenues around stagnation I mean, for ***'s sake, more than half the alliance stands to have innate immunity from said requirement Like I said, dumbfounded It's the Adoulin equivalent of a worm party now that the basic strategy is common knowledge. *** serious ***.
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Stubbornness abound
Leviathan.Kaparu said: » You're absolutely right. A weapon that substantially increases the damage output of a player whose sole role is to deal damage is certainly not relevant in this event ........... when you're suddenly of the mind that an ~15-100% increase in a bad player's damage output has suddenly ceased to matter.. that's really something Yeeaaah... he didn't say either one of those. In any way. Nice try though. Keep swinging! Someone will edit himself again.
Valefor.Prothescar said: » Please show me which Plasm weapon is increasing someone's damage by one hundred percent over a 99 r/m/e. I'm absolutely curious. Ignoring that you seem to believe that everyone who doesn't yet have a Delve weapon has a 99 RME, I'm not sure I see the point in honing in on something you're well aware is improperly phrased, not incorrect Leviathan.Kaparu said: » Valefor.Prothescar said: » Please show me which Plasm weapon is increasing someone's damage by one hundred percent over a 99 r/m/e. I'm absolutely curious. Ignoring that you seem to believe that everyone who doesn't yet have a Delve weapon has a 99 RME, I'm not sure I see the point in honing in on something you're well aware is improperly phrased, not incorrect Question Dodging Skill rises .1 points! It's hard to phrase "15~100% increase in their damage output" any differently than how it's written. Anyway, the argument isn't about a Hoarfrost Blade DRK vs a Bereaver one, it's about a Ragnarok DRK vs a Bereaver one, or other such comparisons. It's also about the relative usefulness of Idiot A vs Idiot B, both of them are idiots, thus they're both likely to be worthless and overall nearly equally non-productive to the run.
Tell me, which would you choose: A) A perle DRK with a Bereaver, who happens to be a bad B) A properly geared DRK with a Ragnarok, who happens to be a bad Choose carefully
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If you want to use a bit of easy discrimination to increase the odds of having a better run, weapon is the obvious choice. The most effective way would obviously be to drag every person over to you and get them to show you their tp/ws/hybrid sets or whatever before inviting them, but nobody wants to do that.
Sure a "bad" player won't contribute a whole lot more to a run from having a delve weapon alone, but how many "bad" players are you getting in your alliance? They do make a big difference to any decent player. I don't support these shouts, but I can see why some people would feel the need for them. I also believe in a good player beating a bad player regardless of weapon. But that's not really the point <,< Fenrir.Deno said: » If you want to use a bit of easy discrimination to increase the odds of having a better run, weapon is the obvious choice. The most effective way would obviously be to drag every person over to you and get them to show you their tp/ws/hybrid sets or whatever before inviting them, but nobody wants to do that. Sure a "bad" player won't contribute a whole lot more to a run from having a delve weapon alone, but how many "bad" players are you getting in your alliance? They do make a big difference to any decent player. I don't support these shouts, but I can see why some people would feel the need for them. I also believe in a good player beating a bad player regardless of weapon. But that's not really the point <,< Yes I agree entirely, however the point of my argument is that they're both so worthless that it really doesn't matter which one you bring, neither one is contributing enough to be worth the slot anyway. One just has a shinier weapon. The shout I found funny yesterday, was the guy shouting for a skirmish run, requiring delve weapon DD's.
Tl;dr I don't get it... For 1-2 years now, every shout has read "X Event: R/E/M DD Only" and now that there's new 'best' weapons, you act surprised that the shouts have changed to incorporate them? Valefor.Prothescar said: » It's hard to phrase "15~100% increase in their damage output" any differently than how it's written. Anyway, the argument isn't about a Hoarfrost Blade DRK vs a Bereaver one, it's about a Ragnarok DRK vs a Bereaver one, or other such comparisons. It's also about the relative usefulness of Idiot A vs Idiot B, both of them are idiots, thus they're both likely to be worthless and overall nearly equally non-productive to the run. Tell me, which would you choose: A) A perle DRK with a Bereaver, who happens to be a bad B) A properly geared DRK with a Ragnarok, who happens to be a bad Choose carefully I choose not to continue to discuss this with the person who's aware that I was referring to the %increase in weapon quality, not the player's total damage output, yet refrains from acknowledging this awareness for the sake of garnering the support of supplementary morons in the peanut gallery Why are you measuring it based on weapon quality and not the actual bit that matters then? Why should I care if someone has a nicer weapon than another person if it isn't affecting their damage output by an appreciable amount? More importantly, why do you expect me to acknowledge such an irrelevant comparison and not assume it's something that actually matters and what was actually written?
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: » the person who's aware that I was referring to the %increase in weapon quality, not the player's total damage output, yet refrains from acknowledging this awareness
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