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Alternator
 Sylph.Jkun
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 175
By Sylph.Jkun 2013-05-07 04:16:22
You can't augment it.
As reports say, +70 to all stats (pic below was taken while wearing Cirque Guanti +2, respectively), plus there seems to be a ton of hidden effects, especially in the MAB department.
Thunder V is hitting 4000+ consistently on T~VT mobs, and does great on some boss fights like Kurma.
As for Valoredge, his WSs can do up to 2k with no maneuvers up.
Coupled with Rigors, this was a much needed push to throw PUP at all this high level content, it's pretty insane to see where things will go from now on.
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サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 27
By Lakshmi.Dragoncloud 2013-05-07 04:46:46
Is that 4211 with full MAB gear and manuvers?
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 59
By Sylph.Ningyotsukai 2013-05-07 05:14:13
Sylph.Jkun
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 175
By Sylph.Jkun 2013-05-07 05:16:46
Lakshmi.Dragoncloud said: »Is that 4211 with full MAB gear and manuvers?
Full Magic Skill merits, Optimization 5, Fine Tuning 3. Gear set is below. Mirke is augmented with M.Acc/MAB+7, Taj is fully upgraded. Working on both PUP Capes next!
ItemSet 269268
Oh, also, 3 Ice Maneuvers, with Ice Maker and Loudspeaker II attached. Feedback on how to improve always welcome, but perhaps in another thread so this one doesn't derail.
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サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1346
By Bismarck.Kuroganashi 2013-05-07 05:38:00
You can't augment it.
As reports say, +70 to all stats (pic below was taken while wearing Cirque Guanti +2, respectively), plus there seems to be a ton of hidden effects, especially in the MAB department.
Thunder V is hitting 4000+ consistently on T~VT mobs, and does great on some boss fights like Kurma.
As for Valoredge, his WSs can do up to 2k with no maneuvers up.
Coupled with Rigors, this was a much needed push to throw PUP at all this high level content, it's pretty insane to see where things will go from now on.
/drool.........................
MUST..............GET...............NEW..........EXPANSION PACK ><
 Lakshmi.ByrthVIP
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6191
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-07 05:52:03
Can someone take it to East Ron and nuke a wild rabbit with no attachments once with it and once without it? Then post here and say how many Optimization merits you have?
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-05-07 05:54:31
From the numbers posted on BG I couldn't make any sense of it. Was something like 38MAB which doesn't make any sense and lead me to believe that it was magic affinity, asked for some tests involving more MAB for clarity but haven't gotten numbers back yet.
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/115865-Delve?p=5708603&viewfull=1#post5708603
this one here
Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-07 05:56:56
I suspect the person who did the test may not have had Optimization merits, but may have had Loudspeaker I and II equipped without Ice Maneuvers.
Sylph.Jkun
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 175
By Sylph.Jkun 2013-05-07 06:00:44
I would, but still in Delve.
For the record, Sharpshot is pulling off constant 2925 Armor Shatterers with barely any input from the master, barely misses, and has incredible evasion. So much so I can pull 2-3 mobs and he'll still be alive at camp.
Of course, it's just eyeballing comparisons between Animator +1 at this point, but we might be looking at a lot more than just a +70 Stat boost here, which might explain the 30k price, and the inability to augment it.
サーバ: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-05-07 06:06:24
I suspect the person who did the test may not have had Optimization merits, but may have had Loudspeaker I and II equipped without Ice Maneuvers.
still doesn't make very much sense; the initial blizzard value should have been 120, but it was 150
 Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-05-07 06:07:43
Ice maker?
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-05-07 06:15:23
Possible. Tbh this is baffling, between the H2H and this Animator, PUP is being skyrocketed to astronomical levels of effectiveness compared to previously and completely blows most any other 1h DD out of the water, it may even be capable of giving MNK a run for its money if these boosts are what they're being reported to be. Couple that with the fact that PUP is incredibly diverse in terms of things it can make its puppet do...
Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-07 06:15:47
Valefor.Prothescar said: »I suspect the person who did the test may not have had Optimization merits, but may have had Loudspeaker I and II equipped without Ice Maneuvers.
still doesn't make very much sense; the initial blizzard value should have been 120, but it was 150
Rocl said 94 INT, but I don't think he did the testing so I'm not sure what the frame's actual INT was.
Also, (94-6)+46 = 134 damage without any MAB. It's 120 if he had 80 INT to start.
サーバ: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-05-07 06:17:24
Well unless I'm mistaken the puppet's base stats don't change any more than the master's (with the exception of merits which puppets don't have access to), and we have a screenshot of the mage puppet having 94 base INT right at the top of the page here.
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-07 06:18:28
I think there are two frames that can cast magic, and frame determines puppet stats.
Harlequinn has 89 INT. idr if it can cast Blizzard.
Sylph.Jkun
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 175
By Sylph.Jkun 2013-05-07 06:19:32
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Well unless I'm mistaken the puppet's base stats don't change any more than the master's (with the exception of merits which puppets don't have access to), and we have a screenshot of the mage puppet having 94 base INT right at the top of the page here.
Yep, that's on Spiritreaver. For the record I have a measly 74 Elvaan INT.
 Cerberus.Cahlum
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 268
By Cerberus.Cahlum 2013-05-07 06:19:42
That screenshot would have been done with the BLM hat RDM body.
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-05-07 06:20:44
I doubt he used Harlequin to do the test considering there's a much higher tier nuke later in the post. Also:
(94-6)+46 = 134 damage without any MAB
Soft cap on blizzard is 60, therefor after 60, until you reach 180, you get 1 point of damage for every 2 INT. Ergo, 88dINT, (88-60)/2 + 60 = 74, 74 + 46 = 120
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-07 06:24:08
Okay, this is why I always test with Tier 2 spells.
155 no-MAB with Alternator predicts 40 MAB from Alternator?
vs. Iron Giants, 29 dINT initially -> 99 dINT with Alternator.
(874+2.3*99)*1.65 = 1816
So yeah, actually his numbers do work out for MAB+40
サーバ: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-05-07 06:28:33
My theory is that it enhances the following stats on the puppet:
Definitely:
-All stats +70 (confirmed)
-Magic affinity or Magic attack bonus +x
Possibly:
-Magic accuracy +x
-Accuracy +x
-Ranged Accuracy +x
-Attack +x
-Ranged attack +x
-Defense +x
-Evasion +x
Maybe:
-Haste +x
-Snapshot +x
Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-07 06:29:27
See above edit. Apparently the numbers work out for MAB+40.
サーバ: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-05-07 06:31:07
Now we just need to figure out if there were sources of MAB aside from Alternator and we're in business
I never thought that the joke "bring an army of pups for victory" would ever hold some actual relevance
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サーバ: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-05-07 06:35:58
actually nvm, slight issue that throws it off by literally 1: M for Thunder IV is 2.29, not 2.3, and still can't explain the BLizzard value... curious.
We need:
1) confirmation of whatever MAB they had at test
2) a test at a differing MAB value
or more easily, a test by someone else capable of doing it all at once who knows how to remove and record these sorts of variables
Sylph.Jkun
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 175
By Sylph.Jkun 2013-05-07 06:38:55
Valefor.Prothescar said: »My theory is that it enhances the following stats on the puppet
Evasion and Defense have to be a hidden effect.
Currently in Delve with Sharpshot and 0 Earth attachments or maneuvers up, E100 takes 70-88 damage from melee hits. The master takess 200-300+ (crits).
I mentioned the evasion before, but to expand, he's also avoided WSs like Grapple and Spinning Top entirely while the rest of the party takes damage. Here are some screenshots with 0 evasion attachments or Wind Maneuvers up. Sorry for the large size.
I am not sure how to test these things, but would love to. It seems almost everything has been buffed up.
But I absolutely do not want to hype this up or blow it out of proportion. We don't want another Magic Mortar case, hopefully this is all intentional.
Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-07 06:41:00
Tier V spells are strange, and Mougu got to a huge degree of accuracy that was probably unwarranted (like, 24 digits on Aero V's coefficient while implementing strange bit-truncation). He pushed hard to get it to fit in the previous formula, but they're probably just calculated in a way that can't be very well compensated for with a single flooring step.
Basically, I think 40 MAB is still the answer.
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-05-07 06:41:30
Valefor.Prothescar said: »My theory is that it enhances the following stats on the puppet
Evasion and Defense have to be a hidden effect.
Currently in Delve with Sharpshot and 0 Earth attachments or maneuvers up, E100 takes 70-88 damage from melee hits. The master takess 200-300+ (crits). I mentioned the evasion before, but to expand, he's also avoided WSs like Grapple and Spinning Top entirely while the rest of the party takes damage.
I am not sure how to test these things, but would love to. It seems almost everything has been buffed up.
But I absolutely do not want to hype this up or blow it out of proportion. We don't want another Magic Mortar case, hopefully this is all intentional.
Well you can start with MAB testing which is easy. Go to ronfaure and have your puppet nuke a rabbit with nothing on, no Alternator, no attachments, no maneuvers. Then have him do the same thing, except this time use Alternator. After that do the same thing, except add on more magic attack bonus.
サーバ: Valefor
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-05-07 06:43:56
Tier V spells are strange, and Mougu got to a huge degree of accuracy that was probably unwarranted (like, 24 digits on Aero V's coefficient while implementing strange bit-truncation). He pushed hard to get it to fit in the previous formula, but they're probably just calculated in a way that can't be very well compensated for with a single flooring step.
Basically, I think 40 MAB is still the answer.
I would be inclined to agree if not for the fact that 120 * 1.65 is not 255. It may come close to explaining one value, but it doesn't come close to explaining the other. I doubt things are that complicated, and we have SE saying that 100 dINT = +229 damage; simplicity seems to be the name of the game for FFXI math; currently used player models are oftentimes far more excessive and convoluted than they actually have to be.
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-05-07 06:46:37
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Tier V spells are strange, and Mougu got to a huge degree of accuracy that was probably unwarranted (like, 24 digits on Aero V's coefficient while implementing strange bit-truncation). He pushed hard to get it to fit in the previous formula, but they're probably just calculated in a way that can't be very well compensated for with a single flooring step.
Basically, I think 40 MAB is still the answer.
I would be inclined to agree if not for the fact that 120 * 1.65 is not 255. It may come close to explaining one value, but it doesn't come close to explaining the other. I doubt things are that complicated, and we have SE saying that 100 dINT = +229 damage; simplicity seems to be the name of the game for FFXI math; currently used player models are oftentimes far more excessive and convoluted than they actually have to be.
It added 70 INT, so it's 155*1.65 = 255
サーバ: Valefor
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Posts: 19647
By Valefor.Prothescar 2013-05-07 06:48:23
Right, forgot the INT. So that one matches up, Thunder V comes incredibly close. I'd still like more tests before saying one way or the other but it's reasonably safe to assume that it is, in fact, +40 MAB
Now to confirm the much harder to test bits...
Has anyone obtained the Alternator if so what is the hidden stat?
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