Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

The reason why I don't consider MP return is because I have never, ever, everrr run out of MP on RUN ever in my life. It's just not possible. And I do spam flash foil Stoneskin whenever I can.

In Escha with refresh vorseals and temps it's almost impossible to run out of MP.

Outside of Escha pretty much everything doesn't last long enough to run out.

In SR or Vagary or incursion where it may last longer, there are downtimes that you can quickly swap to tenebrae x3 then vivacious pulse to recover. And just spam Vivacious pulse whenever it's up.

Even in the worst of the worst PUG ambu vol 2 pt where it last 12 min a run it doesn't hurt at all to swap rune mid fight to keep MP up.

I don't really do vol 1 VD, so I can't comment on that. Maybe it lasts longer with no room to swap rune mid fight. Otherwise personally I find MP return gears quite unnecessary when considering tanking sets.

So what empy body brings to the table is enmity retention when taking hits, 1 def and 1% chance to absorb dmg. Considering it's possible to keep hate full time without empy body depending on setup and situations, AND a lot of times RUN doesn't take dmg anyways(Stoneskin, shadow, parry proc etc), I don't see it being super important stat in certain situations.

I just noticed umuthi gloves has 36 VIT which is quite high, otherwise it's defense is a tad lower than tons of newer 119 gears and that's why I didn't put it in while playing with sets. So now question is def vit in earring slot and 4 enemy crit hit rate - v.s 1% chance to absorb ._.

To be honest, I prefer Futhark Coat+1 over Erilaz Coat+1. Erilaz and the MP return is nice but... in order to get a reasonable return on MP you would have to be in a situation where you're taking a significant amount of damage to even utilize the MP returns to begin with. At which point it becomes counter-productive...

Any fight that lasts long enough for your MP to be an issue isn't a fight you want to be taking significant amounts of damage from to begin with.

On that note: I wish I had whoever you're rolling with Afania because I've had plenty of situations where I've run out of MP and it stinks... :/

Which content that you do you found yourself had MP issues?

I'm really curious because perhaps the content that I do outside of escha is too easy..

Last event(s) I did where MP became an issue was SR and Delve. But I also run a newbie friendly/returning player LS so it's more of a "your mileage may vary" kind of thing.

Erilaz is not good just for the MP return but for the Enmity retention (granted we don't know clear details of how it works exactely) and set bonus, which while minimal is always a nice icing on the cake.

If we lacked other good options or if it were too hard to reach the cap without Futhark+1 I'd see all of your guys' points, but this is totally not the case. By getting 7% in the body slot it's not like you're getting able to equip god knows what mythical equipment in another slot that you can't equip with Erilaz+1 body on.

Last but not least, let's not forget Erilaz has better Meva, Eva and base stats in general, HP included which helps with many things among which enmity retention.

I mean srsly, unless you've just started RUN and have issues reaching the DT caps, I hardly see many reasons to use Futhark over Erilaz in the body slot in the majority of situations.

Meva is kinda irrelevant in the situations that I proposed(no magic, no status ailments) though. I'm not sure how much eva does in such situations as well.

I'm not entirely convinced with enmity retention thing. In ambu I really, rarely take any dmg with battuta and Stoneskin, vol 2 at least. And even if I do I don't lose hate from my experience. So that renders enmity retention irrelevant.

If doing lower lv content that's much harder to hold hate, such as htbc, against good DD Id lose hate before taking dmg anyways. And it's not like tank job is ideal in such content.

In mage setup in escha it's often not possible to lose hate with either body, just because content lv is higher and blm generates less enmity.

The only time I may lose hate and takes consider amount of dmg is doing some higher tier escha NM(so they hit hard) with BSTs using SP moves. Otherwise like all things in FFXI ***is situational, enmity retention while getting hit is not something that may play an important role 100% time, IMHO.

Personally I prefer to use different tanking set for different targets. There are little reason to use Hearty earringfor NM that doesn't do status ailments, nor HP boost gears for NM without 1 shot move. That's why I asked if 1% chance to absorb is worth it for 4% enemy crit rate- or extra def and vit.

Either way, it's personal choice really. I prefer futhark now more than erilaz. But with equipsets or in other cases, gearswap, it's not difficult to have multiple gear sets using either.

For example, if I'm playing /NIN what body I'm wearing is irrelevant as I'm not planning on getting hit to begin with.

But let's say I have my status resist build on, I'd swap in futhark to make up for the drop in PDT/DT.

Or perhaps it's a wonky fight where I actually expect to lose chunks of MP from recasting or plague.(yes it's happened) Erilaz would definitely go on for that.

As far as "enmity retention" goes, I just assume it's the same as PLD empy legs where it reduces a % of hate loss from damage taken.

Idk how PLD works but IMHO with how RUN tank works just doesn't get hit often enough in 50% of situation because how fast it can cast Stoneskin and parry proc rate is massive, even with /BLU. If I'm getting hit hard I'm usually doing endgame content with BLMs. And it's often not very hard to hold hate off them with either body. As long as you can hold hate enmity retention is kinda irrelevant.

It's just my personal experience but I think "enmity retention" may not be a super game changing stat for this particular tank job most of the time, IMO.

As for status resist build with erilaz body on, something like this
ItemSet 346852
can cap pdt/mdt- while keeping all 3 status resist- gears that I know of(I personally prefer empy legs +1 over Runiest legs +1 for parry and meva). If no vocane then Vocane > patricius, refined +1 > Mensch strap +1, and head > augmented herc head to boost dt-.



Let's say, assuming you have vocane, trying to make a status resist build, and don't have access to DT- augment herc head.

A status resist build with erilaz body would probably look like this:

ItemSet 346852

28 DT-
22 pdt-(50 total excluding weapon slot)
+404 magic evasion excluding weapon slot assuming 20 on backpiece
+286 hp
4% chance to absorb dmg

V.S futhark body set:
ItemSet 346843
35 DT-
16 pdt- (51 total excluding weapon slot)
+404 magic evasion excluding weapon slot assuming 20 on backpiece
+417 hp
4% chance to absorb dmg

In the situation that you mentioned where hp and meva is relevant, the set with futhark body +1 actually ended up having same magic evasion, same chance to absorb dmg, but 131 more hp and 7 more DT-.

I may be missing pieces in set 1 but it seems that in a situation that enmity/mp isn't as relevant I see futhark +1 body set being superior choice.

Edit: Both sets have same defense as well.
Edit2: I forgot to add the hp from refined +1 but since both sets uses it it doesn't change the hp gap.
Edit3: In escha you can probably get more hp in set 1 with dt- vorseals though.

Another Edit: You can change grip in set 1 to Mensch +1 and use Hp+100 earring to close the hp gap, but set2 still gonna come out a bit higher with hp ._.

Edit4....:Just found an "escha tanking" set with Erilaz body +1 and all 3 status resist gears:

ItemSet 346854
26 dt-(29 in escha)
21 pdt- (50 total in escha)
5% dmg absorb chance

I currently can't find a set with futhark +1 body beats the above set in terms of both meva, hp+ and absorb chance. But that set only works in escha and it requires hundred million gil, plus vocane as SoA reward. So it's not all that realistic for majority of us :p

I'm not trying to convince anyone, and I'm not trying to hint that people should force equip Erilaz no matter what.
I'm just trying to discuss and share opinions politely.
With this due premise said now...

Why are you equipping Futhark? What do you gain out of a body which has lower stats than Erilaz?
All of Futhark stats are lower than Erilaz except for Regen+3 and DT-7 which are both clearly absent from Erilaz.

You say "I hardly take damage with Phalanx and SSkin up".
Ok, if you hardly take damage then why do you need Futhark? If you "hardly take damage" you might as well equip a DD focused body then if you're so adamant on not wanting to equip Erilaz?

I'm not trying to be polemic, I'm trying to understand what do you guys think you're gaining by using Futhark in place of Erilaz.
Maybe there's something I'm missing, which is exactely what I'd love you to share with me :)


Regarding Meva in physical only situations, don't forget that even if magic damage isn't an issue, Meva helps with status ailments as well, not just magic damage. This includes physical tp moves or autoattacks which have imbued status effects.
So, in other terms, Meva is pretty much always useful even when you're fighting something without dangerous magic damage moves.



As far as the sets you posted last Afania, I think they're nice.
You might consider options different to Erilaz+1 head though.
Which is nice don't get me wrong, but maybe you can use stuff like Futhark+1 or DT augmented Herculean, or even Meghanada (if you manage to cap haste with it).
Interesting alternative grips to Mensch are:
Irenic Strap +1 (for the meva, not the mdt)
Umbra Strap
Alber Strap
Refined Grip +1

Personally I'm not an uber pro RUN but I have 3 basic tanking sets for Great Sword.
Default one is similar to yours but Herc head (DT augment) and Refined Grip+1
I use different hands according if I'm inside or outside of Escha
(to take into account the additional 3% DT I get inside)
Kurys Gloves and DT augmented Herc Hands respectively.

Then I have another older set with slightly more emphasis on accuracy/damage without sacrificing much tanking stats (I use a lolevasionist cape with this set). I rarely use this anymore but 4/5 Erilaz in here (use a different head! I think Lithelimb? lol)

Then I have another set that has big emphasis on accuracy/damage but stil caps my PDT/DT. I use this to tank easier stuff where I can reasonably hit the targets and hence contribute to damage.
I often find myself using Lionheart with this set, rather than Aettir.
This set has 4/5 Meghanada pieces, Salifi+1 haste belt and Schah boots on the feet slot.
It gives me quite a shitload of acc, I cap DT and still have pretty decent defensive stats overall.

I'm not saying you are trying to convince anyone :p


I just posted 2 sets with a very specific goal(status resist) with specific restriction/gear access, with Futhark +1 ended up accomplish the goal and comes out ahead of erilaz in terms of defensive stats- higher hp, dt and everything else the same. It's just shows one example that Futhark +1 set could ended up pulling ahead of Erilaz body +1 despite the gear itself has lower defensive stats. When discussing tanking gear choices it only makes more sense to look at the set as a whole, instead of looking at them individually.

In that case, depending on your gear access and the content, Futhark +1 can ended up providing better defensive stats despite Erilaz body +1 set also caps dt-/pdt- and provides better hp/meva by itself.



The very original situation that I proposed, I made it very specific that the situation is "physical dmg only, no magic dmg nor status ailment at all" Obviously if you're tanking something that does status ailment you can always tank in different set with higher meva >.>

I don't understand why meva is being brought up in a discussion about a situation that you don't need meva. I'm not telling people to full time a low meva set 24/7 for every single NM in this game.
I'm saying if set A with capped pdt- has higher def/VIT/enemy crit-but low meva, and set B with capped pdt- has higher meva/status resist/dt- but lower def/VIT, then set A should be used on NM that only does physical move and set B should be used on NM that does magic/status ailment.

In other words, every tanking sets are situational and different sets are used on different NMs.


Again, you are not looking at the set as a whole when discussing a specific goal, in a specific situation >.> If the goal is to resist status ailment and boost hp, then Erilaz +1 head actually beats Futhark +1 or DT augmented herc, since Erilaz +1 has massive hp and higher meva than both.




It's not that I'm s adamant on not wanting to equip Erilaz, it's more like I don't think there is one by all end all best tanking set that's most ideal for every single situation and personally I don't think Erilaz body is a better tanking alternative to Futhark body in every situation either. Considering 2 major selling point of Erilaz body- Mp return and enmity retention isn't always relevant.




This isn't a dd body discussion though, it's tanking set discussion. The "hardly take dmg" statement is more about trying to find a reason to consider enmity retention rate when considering tanking sets. So I really don't know why DD situation is being brought up in this discussion >.> So if you are shadow tanking NM in escha with mage setup or THFs and not getting hit 90% of time(but still can take dmg sometimes), how's DD body relevant in this discussion when it's not possible to hit.

To put it in a way that's easier to understand:

Futhark head is 104 def, 36 hp, 53 magic evasion, 2 mdb, 4 pdt-, 20 vit.
Erilaz head is 105 def, 91 hp, 69 magic evasion, 5 mdb, 14 vit.

Futhark body is 136 def, 99 hp, 64 meva, 6 mdb, 24 vit.
Erilaz body has 137 def, 123 hp, 80 meva, 6 mdb, 23 vit.

Assuming every slot is mostly* the same:
Futhark head+ erilaz body combo has 241 def, 159 hp, 133 meva, 4 pdt-, 43 vit, 8 magic def bonus, 1% chance to absorb dmg.

Erilaz head+ futhark body combo has 241 def, 190 hp, 133 meva, 11 magic def bonus, 38 vit, 7 dt-, 1% chance to absorb dmg.

In other words, besides 5 VIT difference erilaz head+ futhark body combo > futhark head/erilaz body combo in terms of hp and magic dmg taken, while getting 7 dt- instead of 4 pdt-, which allows room in accessory slot to make up the VIT difference.

The point was to use a similar head with DT stats (like the suggested Herculean Head) so that you can free up DT in other slots.
For example different grips, no HQ staunch and no Vocane Ring, both of which are not available to a large amount of players.

If this is not your personal and specific case I see no issue in using Erilaz head which, as I already said, has really nice base stats :)

Whoa! I go to sleep and there's a whole wall of text in my wake...

Anyway, I was just posting a couple things I've noted from my own experience. I've already stated it's personal choice what body piece (or any gear slot for that matter) you wear.

If we are specifically talking about a Physical Damage Only build you have plenty of options to choose from and honestly I see no point in getting too worked up on what piece is superior over what.

I took a few minutes to edit my Item sets to reflect what I use in-game just to give an idea of what I personally use.

General Tanking Build
ItemSet 340309

Secondary Tanking Build
ItemSet 343746

Status Resist Build
ItemSet 343532

Herculean Helm and Bots both have -3% DT.
Evasionist's Cape has -4% DT, which funny enough is the difference between me wearing Futhark or Erilaz.
Ogma's Cape is currently HP+60 Eva/M.Eva+20 FC+10.

To those looking at a physical damage only set, don't forget about Futhark Boots +1 which have 15 parrying skill. Though it seems like we hit the parry cap pretty easily on most modern content thanks to the cap being so pitifully low. Has anyone done parry testing to see if there's content where we still aren't capped?

We should update the subjob section for /nin in the OP.

Ran into someone today thinking they should be /nin for endgame because it is labeled the "best sub for a majority of situations" in the OP.

They also assumed they should be tanking with two swords because of this and were working on getting Fettering, but that was their assumption (not so a problem so much with the OP) and I set them straight. Just figure the /nin section should be a bit more specific about situations it really applies to.
I would like to see any new RUN learning the job to keep hate with /nin, lol.

The majority of the hate tools you use on RUN are on RUN main.

This is true, but against super buffed DDs it takes more than just RUN tools. Blank Gaze has the same CE as Foil, etc.

It doesn't, really. Do your RUNs not use Crusade/enmity swaps on JAs and Flash/Foil or something? Only NM I had a hard time holding hate on was Vinipata for some reason. Normally I only use RUN JAs/Flash/Foil since I'm usually multi-boxing and don't have the time to be focusing on casting enmity spells nonstop. With capped haste and Inspiration, you're able to rotate Flash/Foil nearly nonstop if you wanted to, anyway.

Idk, but any time I am not RUN I find that people have trouble. I typically want to tank for this reason, but since the only other person I play with who is and equal or stronger DD than me is Chiaia so I can't do that. Besides I like being on BLU :P

Anyway, I was just on about /NIN and not enmity. Sorry for leaving the notion open to digression.
Did I miss the meeting where /NIN is the best thing for the majority of the situations over /BLU?

It's really not the enmity spell that makes blu preferable in situations favors blu, rather it's the def boost and possibly quick aoe without needing tp.

Enmity is just icing on the cake.

If you are doing UNM or htbc due to how enmity works there it's going to be tough to hold hate with either SJ, but tank isn't ideal in those content anyways. Other time that I find it tough is mythic bst spamming 40k move over and over with SPs.

It's very easy to hold hate in ambuscade or escha blm setup without ever needing blu spells.

It's easier to hold hate the higher the level of the target, if I recall, right?

On lower level stuff where people just zerg even before you can engage it's not easy to keep hate against afterglowed perfect geared DDs.
I had some issues against some of my LS mates on DRK and BLU while doing the Gnoll Ambuscade NM. Granted they have some of the best gear in game and they were going all out without holding off, but there have been a couple of situations where I lost hate for a few seconds towards the end of the fight.

And yeah, I do use enmity swaps, not the best around but decent set overall.

I didn't, and I was being pretty lazy. Valiance all 6 party members/Pflug/Battuta/OfA at the start, do a couple Flashes/Foils and grats, you got hate the entire fight. Considering your DDs are only doing like half normal damage on that fight unless you take long enough for it to stand for some reason, it should be pretty easy to hold hate on that fight.

It was useful for this month's Intense Ambuscade I guess. Normal Ambuscade the best subjob was /BLM.

Stands up pretty quick if you provoke it a few times.

This is completely wrong. If you are taking the entire fight to get the gnoll to stand. YOUR group is doing something wrong.

Anyways. On the topic at hand. RUN shouldn't be losing hate. Only reason it may happen on the gnoll for some of you is probably because of the intimidation procs you are getting.

People always say the "Provoke a few times" line without saying how long into the fight it usually stands up for them. From my experience, it was on a 90 second timer from time of engage, which lines up with how long it would take to do a "few Provokes" from 1 person. Has anyone actually gotten it to stand up before, say, the 60 second mark by having multiple people Provoke it in a shorter period of time?

It never stands because the provoke theory didn't exist when we finished our points. We exited 90 seconds after entry anyway.

>finish the fight in less than 2 mins
>you're too slow must be doing something wrong

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This "theory" has existed since day 1 ambuscade.