Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

Along that same vein, perfect Leyline vs. Carmine Hands +1 is a slightly better ratio of macc/mab. 12 mab switched for 33 macc on high level content.

Have there been serious math about how big of an impact magic accuracy has on lunge damage?

Not sure it's as relevant as for normal spell-based magic damage.

I don't think we have a solid model for how Swipe/Lunge handle macc at all, let alone any concrete testing with regards to a potential bonus.

On a hunch I'd say that Macc doesn't have a particularly big impact on Lunge as it has on normal spellcasting, if at all, but this is based on absolutely nothing solid, just my personal and limited experience with lunging/MBing high level targets.

As such, if proved true, it might as well be that the +2 mab on Argochampsa outperforms the +5 macc on Izdubar mantle, and any other similar situation for other slots.

Well this morning I tested out Dosis vs Seething Bomblet +1 on mandys in Ceizak with 3x Gelus runes, I had the Bomblet coming out ahead with normal Epeolatry and Soulcleaver.

Base damage for Swipe/Lunge is pretty low, so that's not too surprising for a high end set since it'll have a fair amount of MAB these days.

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Updated RUN sheet

Not posting a full changelog for this one, suffice to say there was quite a bit of work to do here. Added a bunch of gear, set bonuses for HQ abjuration gear, removed pre-ilevel armor, sorted everything, new food, GEO spells, Swordplay (currently uses a fixed value) and Temper, new pDIF caps (differentiates between 1h and 2h), vorseals, acc/att gifts, bugfixes galore, etc. Thanks to Afania for sending me the base copy I started from.

Notes on Herc gear, basically same as in the BLU sheet:
To do list:
-Implement Fotia Gorget/Belt
-Implement TA damage for Hetairoi Ring (Should be less hassle than I initially anticipated; I'd forgotten that DA dmg gear doesn't work on WS. Assuming Hetairoi works the same way for now.)
-Support for additional temporary items? (Champion's/Braver's/Soldier's?)
-Implement Swipe/Lunge
-Handle rune damage automatically if a formula can be established.
-Skillchains? Party skillchains are (partially) outside the scope of the spreadsheet, but a basic option to calculate and incorporate skillchain damage would be a nice feature.
-New mob stats would be nice, though it likely won't happen for a long while if I end up being the one to collect that data. Will look into incorporating the stats Langly used in the NIN sheet as a temporary alternative once I've had a chance to review them.

Will start cranking out TP/WS sets over the next few days now that I've gotten this much out of the way. Let me know if anything's not working properly or if there's gear you'd like me to add.

I haven't read through any pages here, so this might not be new information. I'm not seeing information on One For All as far as the calculation of the phalanx effect (on the OP and BG wiki), so I figured I'd post our findings. We tested different stats and ultimately came up with the information that the "Phalanx" effect on One For All is 10% of your Max HP. This is not the rune's max HP. So if you're a white mage and your max HP is 1750, your magic phalanx from one for all is 175. We didn't test this, but because it is not the HP of the caster, I believe this would be your max HP at the time the nuke hits you. It is still possible it is the max HP of each individual at the time the rune casts One For All though.

Testing came up consistent:
Rune max HP 2304:
Fire VI: 1944
Fire VI with One For All: 1714
Difference: 230

White Mage Max HP: 1754
Fire VI: 1967
Fire VI with One For All: 1792
Difference: 175

Rune Changed Max HP: 2246
Fire VI: 2009
Fire VI with One For All: 1784
Difference: 225

So it looks like it doesn't round only up or only down when looking at your HP, it just rounds.

Edit: Clarification, this was done in Ballista. It's possible it could work differently outside of Ballista and I'm hearing reports the actual number may be 20% damage reduction or more of max hp outside of Ballista. More testing will be needed.

I'm considering leveling up RUN because the job looks fun and every time I party with one, I'm impressed. I'm worried about the viability of the job though, since the playerbase can be so dead set on which jobs they want for content. Is it worth leveling RUN, and what kind of stuff can you do with it? It seems like Escha/Reisenjima NMs are more or less out the window, people generally only want a PLD for that. What about for other content like Vagary, SR, HM Battlefields, etc.?

It seems like it might be a good job for soloing some content with Trusts that other jobs might have trouble with, due to the huge amounts of magic mitigation. Is it good for soloing something like Avatar battles, or are you better off going on a DD oriented job?

RUN is the best tank job for mage setup because of Gambit and rayke, or on NM that can be shadow tanked because it takes no damage with shadows up. It's actually a better job than pld on a lot of escha and reisenjima NM because of mage setup everything. A tank that can increase dps is often a better choice than a tank that can't.


On the other hand you don't need RUN for avatar bc because it's a DD zerg fight.

Anyways here is a list of strength and weakness of RUN IMO, feel free to add other opinions since I may be wrong without pld experience.

Pro:

1.More dmg output in mage setup with blm and SCH, or magical DD setup with jobs like WAR BST RNG COR.

2.Good dmg mitigation on single target that hits slow.

3.Good at generating huge amount of enmity in short time with tons of JA.

4. Can generate enmity on multiple targets via foil and aoe spell or ws.

5. Can help every pt member take less dmg via JAs.

No.1 is probably the biggest strength RUN has over pld and pup tanks. Maybe No.5 too.

Con:

1. A bit harder to play than pld. Sometimes it's game over with mistakes on shadow rotations on high lv NM with strong tp moves, since RUN can be quite squishy without shadows.

Also RUN may have less room for errors on healers end as well.

And you do need to do research on the target that you're tanking, in order to find out which sj and ja to use.

Overall this job has less room for errors for both tank and healer players. And that's where "pld only" stigma came from.

2. Also it's probably worse than pld for super tanking a lot of adds in terms of dmg mitigation, even though it can be done (just need more cures)

3. I think it's also worse than pld for tank DD hybrid playstyle since pld can gain tp via block but RUN can't. But I may be wrong about this as I don't play pld.

4. Less hp than pld due to the lack of souveran +1 access.

5. No aegis access, can't break mdt- cap. Kinda a pain on fights that you can't put shell up, such as tree nm in reisenjima.


That being said, RUN is still being used on a lot of things such as super kirin, woc, some reisenjima helm NM. So people do use this job in endgame. Don't use shout group to gauge a jobs usefulness though, a lot of the shout setups are terribly inefficient.

I'd say a lot of Afania's comments are correct in my experience as well.

Some points I can add:

1) With Epeo + /BLU for Cocoon we can take a pretty good beating from groups of non-NMs without too much issue. We can't heal ourselves or block like PLD so we will depend on a healer but it still takes the horde quite some effort to beat us to death. Erilaz Legs +1, Inquartata, and Battuta can combine to take us up to an almost unfair parry rate as long as you can keep things in front of you. Notable areas where this can be seen is stuff like Fomors in Vagary, or Adds on T3s in Ru'aun.

2) We have an amazing ability to shake off a single element. We can't break the MDT cap like PLD but with full job points into Rune Enhancement Effect plus an emboldened Shellra V and a little bit of gearing, we can take a nuke to the face like a champ and not care. The huge hiccup with this often is that the nuke your mages want to use to boost damage, is not the same runes you will need up to block the mobs spells.

3) DD Hybrid. Ah what a point. So with an Epeo we have the potential to do pretty massive DD to a lot of stuff since we have full access to THF gear. Our ability to gear out accuracy, and create effective hybrid DD sets are quite large and with Battuta up Tactical Parry TP + using hybrid ACC will get you to 1000 TP fast. We can contribute a surprising amount depending on the level of the mob. T3+ reisen stuff will start to be a problem, but at that point landing anything weaponskill related on either tank may be a hastle. If you are just starting out and have Aettir or one of the other beginning options (get Aettir) your ability to DD will be pretty hamstringed. This is really a role best suited for /SAM on NMs you know can't kill you or are going to die fast and you want to do something like close Light consistently with Dimi.

When soloing weaker stuff you can basically use a Macbain or similar greatsword with full THF DD gear and rip things apart as /SAM or /WAR.

4) Hate Kit. PLD can bring a lot to the table with its self heals as far as sticking mobs to it. But we bring /BLU! Whether you are tanking single target with Foil + Flash + Jettatura + Blank Gaze, or you are tanking everything in an area with Sheep Song + Soporific + Geist Wall it is not that hard to get things to stick to you reliably with spells so that you can save your CDs for when they will really matter.

5) Liement. This is really only applicable with Epeo. Once you have the sword, Liement being extended to an AoE adds a fairly significant cooldown to your arsenal. Rather than providing a large boost in healing to you, it can nearly full heal your entire party if they happen to be in range for an element you are prepped to prevent.

6) Fast Cast. We have a TON of it if you merit into Inspiration and while some people have opted to drop this lately for Rayke duration if you do merit it, it allows you to drop the recast of most of your spells quite handily despite not completing the casts in FC gear. This allows you to cast in Enmity or Spell Interupt sets depending on the situation with great reliability.

7) Gambit + Rayke. I know Afania already stated this, but its pretty tough without being there to describe just how much of a difference these two can make. Their contribution to the ability to kill NMs has been make or break for a number of our clears.

Well pld has access to atonement, which should always land. As for GS.... Herculean slash? Idk!

I haven't look into math between run v.s pld for hybrid DD playstyle, since we would need to compare the dps and dmg mitigation for both jobs to figure out which one is better. But I do know a lot of pld can play aggressively without having worry about staying alive, and gain tp very fast with beating from adds.

But tank hybrid DD playstyle is more advanced technique anyways, more like a bonus for people wants to push tank job to next level, but not a pt requirement. Most of the time just stay alive and hold hate is considered job done. If you want to do it on run, can switch to tp set when shadows up then switch to turtle sets when you see tp move or spell casting.

Oboro augments revitalized Aettir for hybrid roles somewhat. It may not have the raw power of Zulqifar, Bidenhander, Montante +1, or Humility, but it offers far more accuracy than any of them. Of those options, only a very well augmented Zulqifar can get anywhere close (47~48 acc with perfect acc+25 DEX+10 pellucid augment). Even Epeolatry II doesn't have that kind of accuracy unless you're willing to forego AM3 for AM1. It won't keep up on weaker content where acc is less of a concern, but at that point you can probably drop the "hybrid" and focus on flattening whatever you're fighting.

And yeah, Gambit/Rayke are soooo good if you're stacking BLMs for high level content. It makes a huge difference.

So, we did some more OFA testing using Battleclad Chariot in Zhayolm II. For whatever reason, his Discoid does an even 4000, unlike the 4400 in Zhayolm I. Anyway, here are the details:

- The "phalanx" was 20% of max HP, not 10%. I'm not sure why Ballista was giving a 10% reduction, but 20% adds up with my observations using it against enemies that nuke.
- The 20% is based off of each individual's HP, which is consistent with the Ballista testing. That is, a RUN with 2500 HP will get 500 damage reduction, while a BLM with 1500 HP would only get 300. I wonder if this is a bug or intended, and if it was designed this way, maybe they should call it "Every Man For Themselves"
- The 20% is determined when you receive the status, so macroing in HP/Enmity gear is ideal.

Inc one for all party chat call macro for everyone in the pt: "One for all inc, everyone macro in max hp set nowww <call2>" :p

I had a list of things I found broken but I left it at work ><
There were a few minor wrong things (like Rawhide Body being as "Path B", which is semiuseless, and the stats where those of unaugmented Rawhide Body anyway)

Also I think there was something wrong with the crit rate of targets you can select, and something wrong with Dudgeon/Heartseeker combo as well. Using them together was producing a huge DPS loss despite me being far from attack cap.

There were a few minor things ><
I will update if I can find the file again.

Rawhide stuff is from the copy I started from, I need to add/fix those and probably some Taeon. When you say crit rate of targets, are you talking about crit def/-crit rate or an issue with player crit calculations? Will look into Dudgeon/Heartseeker.

These.
They showed up with errors, right under the target after I chose it.

Ahh, I fixed that but didn't publish the updated version. My apologies. I'll check on those earrings now... okay, so apparently there are a bunch of issues with DW in this sheet. Weird implementation. Suppose this is a good opportunity to clean that up.

Alright, here we go. I did verify the set bonus works now, let me know if anything else looks out of whack. I'll see about getting the aforementioned gear in soon.

While we're on the subject, I probably won't announce every time I push a bugfix unless it's a particularly big bug (like DW not working...) or a lot of them at once. Hopefully there won't be much (any? dare I dream?) of that moving forward; working on two sheets in sequence helped me catch a lot of things, including some that I might have missed for a time had I only done one or the other. New features will always get an announcement though, and there should be at least a couple of those coming soon now that I've taken care of some groundwork.

Thanks for all the work Night.
Does it take into account the different pdif and acc caps when you swap from 2H Sword to 1H Sword?
I'll keep sending you feedbacks if I ever come up with something I think could improve the sheet.


One small question: how do you get 524 Enhancing Skill?

Raw skill with max merits and job points gifts is 440.
I don't see more than +44 enha skill in gear, and that comes at the cost of 35% duration bonus and also with HQ gear which isn't exactely common.
There has to be something I forgot to consider, something augmentable that doesn't appear on FFXIAH power search.

So... what did I forget about? :D


Edit:
Nvm forgot accessories, dumb Sechs, dumb!
Still, is it worth to lose 35% enha duration to get +27/29 enha skill? On tank mode maybe, but on on DD mode each spell you cast is at least 1+ second lost on white damage...
Would be cool if we could reach 500 skill without using legs/head and without using non-ilevel gear (like manasa chasuble)

RUN/BLU has access to Wild Carot and Healing Breeze. Those are a really cheap Cure III and Curaga II respectively. You can combine Cure Potency with Cure Received for very respectable numbers, not to mention healing everyone around you for hate.


RUN will take far less magic damage then an Aegis PLD by virtue of the ridiculous amounts of MDB and MEVD RUN gets. A naked level 99 RUN gets 22 MDB, PLD gets 0. That gets further exaggerated by RUN's gifts, take a look and witness how much MDB and Magic Evasion on on there. MDB serves to reduce magic damage and is a separate term from MDT and has no known "cap". MEVD reduces damage via you flat out resisting it can reduce it anywhere from 50% to 93.75% depending on how many resist checks you make. It also reduces the amount of status ailments along with the duration of the ones that do land, something Aegis does jack ***for.

When it comes to magic damage, nothing touch's what a RUN can take. They are virtually indestructible.

Not sure why you guys are saying run cannot break break the mdt cap like aegis does.
Sure aegis is all elements whereas our vallation/valiance is up to three, but it DOES break the cap, and works on breath damage too.

Of course against multiple elements or non elemental it's a different story, but on single I'd dare to say run is better than aegis pld.

On all magic RUN is better due to how MDB and MEVD work. People really forgot there is a lot more to magic damage then MDT. There is a reason we use malaise on nuking.

Since our Enhancing really only applies to Temper for offense, which has a short cast/recast, I don't think it's much of a loss, just reapply between fights as needed.

It does.

Hmm... quick bit of napkin math:

Removing head/legs for +duration knocks 3% DA off Temper in exchange for increasing the duration from 3.6 minutes to 4.65 minutes with gifts. 3% DA should be a net DPS gain in the low 1% range for non-Epeolatry weapons. If we assume capped FC and no QM, every Temper cast burns 3.6 seconds. Effectively, trading duration for potency adds about 0.8 seconds of cast time per 4.65 minute period over an arbitrarily large number of cycles. Works out to a ~0.3% loss in damage output. Additional JA/casting time will result in a more significant loss, but it should still work out to a net gain for non-Epeolatry weaponry. With Ergon AM3 you're looking at tenths of a percent difference regardless.

That's all in a vacuum though. If a full potency Temper will last the full fight, it's obviously better. If enhanced duration saves you a cast, that's a decent gain in active time that might favor duration+. If there's downtime or a certain interval during which you can refresh buffs with minimal DPS loss, that factors in too.

tl;dr Potency is generally better in a vacuum; if you really want to optimize it might come down to context/micro considerations, especially with Epeolatry AM3 up.

Thing is that all that additional inventory+ would be used basically only for Temper.

It's a lot of wasted inventory space for a single spell that also makes a difference only on a small part of the content. Well relatively "small", but not all content for sure. Because on many fights you won't really be hitting the target reliably enough for temper to even bother to keep it up.
On easier content then there are two situations:
1) you can reliably melee and WS
2) you can reliably melee but not WS

In situation 2 it would only boost your white damage. Which is cool but also very "meh" at the end of the day.
In situation 1 it would provide a larger boost.


tl;dr
I can see it all that additional +enha gear being useful for Temper, but it's also a lot of inventory space wasted for a situationally useful spell.
(Wardrobe2 coming in a few days though! \o/ )

I went through the same decision process, and reasoned that I could use Carmine Mask for the Fast Cast over AF head. While I don't need Carmine Cuisses (due to having Skadi jobs), Rawhide path D was worth getting since it offers the best Fast Cast for most of those jobs too. Would need to pick up at least 3 more Enhancing to make Carmine get the extra DA anyway, so I'm not missing out.

I have HQ legs for movement/acc and use the head for acc too. Requiescat as well in the very odd event that I'm using it on RUN... The other pieces, eh. I'm not quite at the point of inventory hell with RUN that I am on BLU yet (BLU inventory is impossible, ***), and wardrobe 2 next week will pad me out for a while yet. It's absolutely a call you have to make based on what's most practical for you, and since the general focus with RUN is tanking that's a reasonable priority if inventory limitations are a factor.

@Jeanpaul
I'm using 5% FC augment Herculean Head for FC, and it's shared among several melee jobs.
I do have Rawhide Trousers for idle that I could use for enha+10 of course but... dunno, my inventory is a mess.

Wardrobe2 is gonna be a saviour, but if I don't move slowly it's gonna be full with crap in 2 days =/
Keep in mind I have 8+ jobs levelled and geared up, I need to draw a line somewhere D:

Anyway, thanks for sharing all your useful opinions and point of views ;)

Was it ever confirmed that Valiance does break the cap? From my experience it must do given how strong the effect is but eyeballing alone is not enough. It would make sense though.

Agreed with this. Even with an Aegis a PLD just cannot match a master RUN due to the absolutely insane amount of MEVD/MDB it gets. RUN is also infinitely more resistant to all status ailments, which are often more cumbersome and dangerous to survival than straight damage (Charm from Warder of Courage springs to mind).