Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

Well, then you should've stayed on Phoenix, Kojo is ready to go right friggin' now! :D

I see RUN for what it is a tank for magic casters and yeah it can add some dd if I need a dd I just go drk or war period. Resolution with no real attack behind it makes me a sad panda. But being a Rag drk doing reso makes you kind of spoiled.

I like /dnc just would actually go axe/sword and spam ruinator tho.

Is Resolution good for RUN. I haven't seen any real big numbers for it even in Aby. Plus I have consistently seen 3 rune Lunges do more damage. Also, I don't have it but I'm still able to tank without it. I am looking forward to trying RUN in the new areas once all my skills are capped. I messed around there a little on my PUP and discovered just how hard those mobs hit.

Was just playing around on RUN/SCH and it seems like it could be a very good subjob.

• Celerity Flashes at the start of fights could be a great hate management tool.

• Light Arts grants you -na's and Erase so you don't always have to worry about a nooby WHM.

• Storm spells with obi's to boost Lunge damage.

• Can AoE Phalanx so SCH doesn't have to run into mob attacks.

• Light Arts boosts our B- and B magic to B+, giving it just a smidgen better chance of not being interrupted or increasing effect (foil effect could be based on it right? has there been testing?)

• Light Arts reduces MP cost and re/casting time for our spells by 10%.

• Can pop Dark Arts up to Drain/Aspir/Sleep/Dispel/Klimaform if needed.

Resolution is probably the best WS you got for RUN at tis time, assuming they don't add in a Nyzul WS later on, or some newer WS. It's there to give you quick spikes in damage, though due to the attack penalty and not being DRK, you're not gonna see those huge numbers.

The deal with lunge is that it's got a cooldown on it that doesn't make it fully viable substitution for Reso, since you can usually get 2-3 off depending on gear and buffs, before getting a second Lunge flowing. Best to use both tools to maximize how efficient you are with RUN, instead of valuing one over the other.

I was under the impression that the general consensus was that RUN simply does not have the Attack needed to make Resolution the impressive WS that it normally is. That your lunges are outdamaging it is shocking to be honest, considdering Lunges really arent that strong.

Most I've seen on T's in Ceizak/Rala is ~1.5k Reso and Lunges do at least 1.8k, up to over 2k with obi/storm and matching day. Geared well for both, not awesomely, but well.

Haven't tried it yet but ruinator maybe the best ATM it doesn't require the attack buffs that reso does actually. Those new D75+ axes looks sick imho. I been a GS user but thinking of testing duel wielding axes or axe and sword.

Reso depends highly on attack buffs. Your not putting out big numbers without meat and berserk up at a minimum. You may also need some defense down effect like Dia applied to the monster. The reason most of you are getting low numbers is because your soloing. Get Chaos + Fighters + Min + food + Dia II/III and you'll see vastly different results. For solo / lowman unbuffed work I would suggest /NIN with Axes doing ruinator. Req is also an option. It may have -20% attack but it's also got 7.2 fTP before DA/TA is counted, though I don't see lots of MND gear for RUN. Good to keep Req for special situations where you need to rely on Req and Lunge to bypass slashing -DT effects.

I'm just wondering how I would be maximizing my efficiency with a WS that doesn't hit harder then other DD's in the party and is not needed to maintain hate of a mob? That's why I find /dnc to be a good sub for RUN if you are tanking. I also like /sch for all the reasons listed above by Dasanuffadat. More testing needed for it though.

Because damage is the #1 biggest source of CE. By going /DNC your lowering your CE/VE production rate and thus your enmity. Spamming JA's is bad, each one imposes a 1~2s pause in your attack round which is further lowering your CE gain rate.

That's if your actually trying to tank and all.

ItemSet 296033

Has 109MND, RUN has plenty of MND gear.

As for the new enmity changes and RUN, definitely seems like SE is wanting to push tanks to maintain high VE instead of CE while lowering the amount of CE that DD and mages gain. That's what I got out of their update notes anyway, I could be way off.

Edit: Just a note that the gearset above is just an indication of MND gear available to RUN to pick and choose from and not an optimal weaponskill set for Requiescat.

Any words on ruinator/requiestcat Runefencers? Just to compare with Resolution ^^

Suppose Orvail robe would be best body, for the rest it should look like this I think.

Has anyone made a spreadsheet for RUN yet?

Yes I was comparing it to RDM and BLU for MND gear. Morrigans goes a long ways for BLU and RDM is just loaded with it.

So I guess I should say "MND gear with attack / DA / STR on it". Though honestly I didn't look at new gear just introduced, that could be interesting.


They lowered all damage / healing hate, both CE and VE, uniformly by 70%. It was a good first step to balancing out hate gain but it's not nearly enough to allow JA / spells to hold hate over damage. The CE/VE amounts for things like Provoke / Flash were statically to be effective for level 50. SE is going to need to radically increase the amount of CE they generate for them to be effective.

On the subject of CE vs VE. The reason tanking revolves around CE is that VE is really easy to accumulate and doesn't get reduced when you take damage. It goes down at a static rate of 60 units per second. Essentially if you can generate more then 60VE per second your going to cap it and keep it there. CE on the other hand is harder to generate but stays around until you've received damage. For "tanks" their constantly losing both CE and VE, one to damage the other to time. The thing with dealing damage is that its the best generator of CE in the game and because VE from damage is CE x 3 it also ends up being the best generator of VE in the game.

IE Provoke is 1CE and 1800VE with a 30s recast. In 30s you will lose exactly 1800VE so provoke ends up being hate neutral and only raise's your average VE by 900. Useful for level 5~50 characters, not so useful past level 60 or so. Flash is worse, it generates 180CE and 1280VE for a 45s recast spell. Thankfully haste lets us lower it's recast. Thing is haste also makes us deal more damage and thus create more CE/VE. The #1 best thing you can do to your "tank" is haste + march. That is a huge enmity boost in and of itself.

Seems a silly statement on JA being bad when they are designed to give both CE and VE >.>


So how much CE is per sword swing again? and How much would a valiance on the party be? I could see if ur JA didn't directly generate both CE and VE but in RUN it seems designed for it.

I could be wrong so how much CE does a run produce in an attack round vs and attack round where its JA is used like valiance for comparison instead of its bad mkay...

Sword swings happen constantly, JA's have a long recast. Or did you not notice the word "Spam", meaning to constantly use.

Do you know how little hate those values are? I think I've explained and mathed it out three or four times at least now. They need to be in the thousands to compete with damage dealt.

The RUN has certain JA on very short delays actually and can be rotated...

Some people need to either need to read up on enmity before talking more about it or just refrain from giving an opinion and accept what others are saying.

asked for a comparison on DPS for TP and WS a few pages back if someone wants to walk me through how to do this exactly I'll try to compute something up myself.

Valiance in a full pt is a nice hate generator, but it's on a bloody 10 min recast. Lunge and Gambit are nice, but putting up runes is a dps killer, and while lunge is powerful enough to make up for it, gambit on the other hand is really situational imo...

Here is the numbers


Hate from damage is by far the #1 best source of CE/VE. Using JA's constantly prevents you from swinging your weapon and thus building CE/VE from damage and most importantly prevents you from gaining TP to use WS for big CE/VE chunks. Now if your needing to use that JA anyway for it's effect (Berserk / Hasso / Runes / Gambit / Lunge / ect..) then additional hate is fine and dandy. Just don't try to tank exclusively through them. Use those abilities for their effects not their hate.

To get 200CE and 600 VE (800TE) I only need to deal ~600 damage, which is a really small amount. A 2000 damage WS generates 660CE and 1980 VE for a total of 2640 enmity. To get that 2000 damage WS you need to hit the monster for six to seven times for an average of 150~200 damage. That adds from ~350CE, 1050VE to 400CE, 1200VE in that same period. That's thousands of TE generated in that period of time. And that value only grows as the RUN is better and better geared and buffed. Things like food + haste spell + songs + rolls + Dia will greatly enhance CE/VE generation through damage yet do absolutely nothing for CE/VE generation through abilities.

Ultimately if you want to "tank" without using damage then frankly go play a different game. SE may change this in the future, we don't know, but for now and the immediate near term, damage is the #1 best way to generate hate.

Valiance is 450 * 3 to 6 CE ppl normal plus 900 * 3 to 6 VE vs an attack delay of 1.5s added once. Still seems bad mkay...

Yeah valliance would be amazing at the start of a fight for a big CE/VE spike to give you time to build up hate. That's really the only down side to damage hate, unless you start the fight at 100 TP it takes time to build. Flash + Provoke at the start is a really good hate holder cause nobody has built up any CE yet.

<.<

/sigh I just gave you the CE/VE values for damage done. All they did was uniformly lower it by 70%. You want to know the values for curing? I can do those too and it would surprise the sh!t out of you (hint stop using Cure V).

Ohh and that person is extremely wrong about how hate works. I suggest you stop listening to them.

The numbers are lower from damage and we have JA that can generate some high numbers so stop using the JA and go all out damage on a job that does comparatively *** for damage >.>

You don't have to stop using your ja, but you can't rely solely on those. Even the yoichi sam will pull hate off you if your damage is in the gutter.

Never said you stop and stand with ur *** in the dirt. We are talking trade offs on hate generation period. The added JA delay to the attack round. If I use a ja I add 1.5s to my attack now does the added CE VE from the JA offset the delay in damage and if so by what margin plus or minus. Very curious in that actually.

Do not spam JA, aka don't go f8cking /DNC for tanking. Use JA's for their effects not for their hate, with the sole exception of opening with Valliance if your in a full PT (until SE nerfs it). Otherwise focus on using damage to generate lots of CE.

Thing of note, the monster does NOT hit whomever is doing the most damage. They hit the highest on the hate list. If there are multiple people on the top then they hit the last person to do an action on the monster when it's AI does another target update. This means you need to hit the CE cap of 10,000 ASAP and once your there you need to hit as often as possible to ensure your at the top of that list.

Now the various things you must do to accomplish the above also tend to jack your damage up. In essence focusing on damage will in turn create the maximum amounts of CE generation and hit the monster the most number of times.