March 27, 2013 Version Update

On the topic of this FFXI update:

If it gets to the point where PLDs need to tank and DDs need to watch their damage, could PUP become more relevant?

The above statement probably sounds HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE, but PUP has a very effective way of shedding enmity(Ventriloquy->Deactivate with enmity-less puppet). If DDs need to go /thf or pull back from the NM for a bit to avoid grabbing hate, a PUP would be able to keep swinging and would also be free to go /war. PUP is starved of hp/pdt/mdt/defense gear, so AoEs could be a problem.

I confess I don't know how DDs used to manage hate(I started playing in 2010), so everything above could be moot. I also love PUP.

No ones crying so lets quash the forum theatrics shall we? All I'm saying is people are quick to call XII bad while giving passes to many other titles carrying the Final Fantasy brand for little other reason than "Vaan".


Coupled with one of the worst stories ever cooked up by SE in the modern age. See, I can laugh off ***like FFV or FFIII in terms of stories cause well... those games are from a simpler day of RPGs but X-2?Even the fanservice (all 100hrs of it) were painful and awkward.

Reskinning a hero as your villain for the final boss also counts for many lulz.

dd tanking was always better than pld tanking outside of inexperienced groups, general player skill/knowledge/gear is much better than it was years ago and keeping a dd hybrid or not up to "tank" is not that hard with cureskin etc except vs hundredfisting/chainspell mobs where a pld might be better

so prob not

Mine's a thoughtful opinion. I just don't see a reason to discuss this here indepth since we're already at the second page of derail now.

If the tanking situation reaches that point, Im pretty sure groups will bring more rng's/yoichi sam's rather than allowing pups to roam. I like pup as well, but just sayin.

I honestly believe FF12 belongs somewhere in the middle, it had so many missed opportunities though, but i did enjoy it. just the story sucked balls [ending]>.>;

ff8 is one of the worst imo.
and 13-1 is pretty bad as well for all those who didn't play it. probably the first ff game i couldn't replay cause it was that boring.. lol. 13-2 was considerably better though.

ontopic: I think i find it awkward on the timing of the defense/enmity changes. now people are going to want to pld again on the release of RNF.

from their example though, it made it sound like RNF isn't going to work at all on higher tier nms, unless somehow rnf gets like a 70% evasion rate. higher tier nms that already hit like a truck will now hit like 2 trucks?

is this how it's going to work? or can somebody fill me in on what i missed lol.

also; do we know if rnf gets any type of cure or self healing yet?

XII's story was forgettable, but it had some of the best gameplay of any game in the series. A lot of elements were derivative of FFXI, but they were really excellent, and there was TONS of stuff to do in the game. I'd put it after VI, VII, and XI in terms of overall quality; just a bit better than IX or X, but worlds better than VIII or XIII.

Damn, now I want to go back and play through the game again.

this game would be hardly fun if you could play offline, what would you do?

I just play another game

Doing things with others bothers me a lot, but I can deal with it, but a lot of things in this game are against other people which bothers me even more. I'm not a competitive person.

12's story was indeed horrible, but I agree with you that the gameplay was amazing. I loved the music most I think, it had a lot of great pieces.

The chests were a bit annoying, but it gave me something to go after. Plus now you can get any rare item in the game 100% of the time with a lil trick, but even if you don't use it it's still a great game to play.

It has major issues, the ending sucked... but it was a fun game and I played it many times :x

Eh I disagree, it just became a spam the attack command.

on the stream i saw rune Regen III so iam going to assume since regen = Healing Magic skills they going to get up to cure 4. also they got 70% of rdm spells ^^;

people, people. It doesnt matter which FF people think is the best.

Lets just all agree that VII was the worst.

Just overrated.

I don't think 7 is the worst, it had many positive things going for it. I just think they made other FF games better (even previous games), but certainly not the worst.

Yea they ran the name into the ground milking the title, but that doesn't change how I felt about the original.

they may be getting enhancing magic skill aswell. It wouldnt be to far out there to think they'd get a little healing magic.

Nah, it was a fun game, had some good things in it, but just way overrated.

I think its just regarded so highly by a lot of the gaming community because for a lot of them that was their first RPG.

I totally forgot about the music! I especially loved this piece:



and it had one of the best boss battle themes:

I thought 12 was really good and had great potential, and then it just...ended.

I liked the setting, they tried something different by making no real main character and just having an ensemble cast so to speak. The zones had some really nice designs. Some of the monster designs were the best in the series, and it expanded on Ivalician lore, which is always a plus.

People complain about the gambit system, but how is it any different than mashing the ***outta the X button? It's not. I thought it was pretty good since it removed a lot of the tediousness of battles.

I'd say if it weren't for the crappy ending it would be top 3 in the franchise no problem.

:( I loved X, can't wait for it to re-come out in hd :D

I'm not really fully understanding on the whole emnity numbers game, nor do i know what CE is, and forgive me for being a day late on this, but if you combine the concepts of "damage dealt is going to related directly to the emnity gained", with "higher defense lowers dmg taken", and lastly, "taking damage increases emnity decay"... wouldnt Paladin gearing for high DEF with Knights Minne possibly be tons better now? and will that be enough to allow a good PLD to hold hate through the fight?

Thanks for any input, I'd love to do the math myself, but it's pretty damn overwhelming when i havent touched real algebra in 12 years.

You'd have to be the biggest idiot on the planet to write a story without a main character, especially for pop-fiction. I don't know why they thought that was a good idea, but hey, they tried it again with 13, and it still sucked.

And here I thought I was the only one who didn't take too well to FF12, aside from certain moments. Hell I didn't even finish the entire game, it made me feel like I was playing a boring offline ffxi game and the story felt inconsistent

I've said it before but FF12 is still one of the hardest games to review because there was soooo much to it, and there were a lot of positives and a lot of negatives. Credit SE for really trying to innovate and maximize the PS2's capabilities. Some of it worked, some of it didn't, but it brought way more to the table than the 13 series.

I was super lukewarm about FFXII. It felt like FFXI on a console without friends, and that made it super boring. Oh god, I hated the AI so bad.

if you cap PDT- and MDT- while employing high def/abilities it should work out well. combine it with phalanx/protect and then gear that enhances it and we should be pretty well off with a PLD tank. All this is assuming they will withhold fanatics/ fools tonic/powders though. Depending on the situation PLD would be the best if there is need to facetank a shitton of damage and RNF would be the best for low damage but a heavy need to resist enfeebling effects.

Which is good. We'll have old PLDs crawling out of the woodwork to compare to people fiddling around with the new RUN. SE has already set into motion what should be a backpedal on the ADL style mobs now that Embrava is dead and they want some semblance of tanking.

One can hope this means adds and other anti-zerg methods in addition to beefy walls of HP but who knows?


Where PLD operates self-sufficiently, RUN wants to be a support tank that controls the flow of battle but relies on its DD to take some of the pressure off in addition to being completely reliant on the healer to keep them alive.


Regens.

Awesome, Thanks so much for the info. I kinda figured they'd alter the emnity of each ability soon also, seeing as how weapon skills should be directly proportionate to the damage they deal, i'm wondering if WS's like last stand and Jishnu's might possibly have more free usage without capping hate instantly. Also, one thing i've been wondering is if/how ranged attacks will work into all of this seeing as how RNG can be showing crappy actual attack while boasting a lot of actual power, hopefully things like Dagaz Ring / bellona's ring, may shine like a diamond compared to pyrosoul (i hope)

I bet Im less of a competitive person than you are!

There are two kinds of enmity that are added together to determine how much you have. CE and VE. CE is culminate enmity and is only reduced when you take damage or a hate reducing ability is used. VE is volatile enmity and goes down at a steady rate of 60 units per second along with taking damage. Both have a cap of 10,000.

The problem with enmity and FFXI is that enmity from damage crushingly overpowers everything else. EX:

Provoke is 1 CE and 1800 VE
Flash is 120 CE and 1280 VE
3K WS is 3000 CE and 9000 VE
Hitting for 250 damage is 250 CE and 750 VE

See the problem? Old "hate tools" were balanced around level 50 game play values. We now generate so much more hate via damage that those tools have become obsolete. Their not even enough to keep hate off the WHM who is healing you.

So a PLD with full defense setup would be generating next to no hate and the WHM would end up tanking.