IiPunch - Monk Guide

No offense guys, but your analogies starting to be more vague than ffxi code :)


Verethragna damage is only a part of monk damage. You need to add base h2h damage on top of it, which is like +78-81 I believe, so that would be 238. This is also per hand, so 476 total which actually make it stronger than Ukon. But then those boxers has super gloves that can triple you power on hit and then one can use both hands while doing a super punch, then... yeah lets stop here, its already as ridiculous as it can be. Just stop using references and simply use in game logic, not real life logic from combat sports :)

As far as mnk shouldnt have competitive overall dps because it has utility.. thats bull ***.

Drk can have up to 9999 hp with 7000 dread spikes on top of that. You have absorbs to boost dps of entire group. You have option for powerful light SC, no SC and darkness SC. You have very powerful options for /nin, you have stun and sleep both via spell and WS or JA. You have ability to cap haste with just haste II, you have buffs/debuffs against Arcana family that boost dps/survivability of whole group. You have form of Dispel. You have magic WSs. You have WSs that apply -25% attack or def (monk has -def too but via staff which is far worse for tping than gaxe/scythe for DRK). Lastly you have SP ability that drains TP from enempy. So please stop with some ridiculous arguments that DRKs can only DPS. I know you will now say that you was talking about regular DRK who doesnt care to use any of this, but it wont change the fact that DRK has tons of utility. What Utility you have on MNK? You lower TP feed. What else? All your JA focused on boosting own damage or survivability. Beside chi blast and Mantra (which has poor up time) you have 0 group utility.

Mnk should have competitive dps with DRK or even surpass it with Impetus up, because MNK is more pure DPS job and has less utility than DRK actually.

^
Second that.

The argument of drk not having utility strikes me as complete none sense. I guess having 9999 hp followed by 5000+ dread spikes isn't a utility? I don't even have to mention that drk is the only DD (aside from LS COR) that can tank wave 3 boss and still be top of the charts...

MNK is only good for 3 mins, and it's utilities is meh, heck its almost on par with other DD with the HP+, H2H weapon skills needs be adjusted properly. For MNK adjustments, I'd reduce impetus penalty, and increase the duration and potency of footwork/TK then can switch between impetus and footwork

Yeah, the way I see it, MNK has always been a heavy DD/2H job in disguise. Hand-to-hand has always had base damage rivaling 2H jobs when you take both fists into account and I'm fairly certain SE saw it the same way. Hence Mythic AM3 only proccing once on the offhand (i.e. once per round just like 2H vs. twice per round as would be intuitive for a dual fist/1.5H job; Empy AM3 is different and was uniquely balanced for HTH) and Accuracy having being capped at 95% for the longest time unlike 1H users. It was only changed because of player feedback and MNK falling behind too much.

WAR, DRK, SAM and DRG all have a bunch of utility themselves, be it Warcry/Blood Rage, debuffs, wider weapon selection, fast TP gain for skillchaining, spells, Wyvern breaths etc.

MNK's entire kit, aside from Mantra, is strictly about pure damage. Even Subtle Blow is basically just another tool to indirectly increase DPS as you have to worry less about TP moves hampering you (unlike 1H) and letting you play more aggressively. It's an essentially useless trait when paired with other DDs anyway. As far as Staff goes, it's terrible for physical damage and requires /SAM or /DRK to cap Haste (so MNK/WAR cannot fully utilize it), leaving you mostly using it for Shell Crusher and Cataclysm. There's not much else beyond that. MNK doesn't even have fast TP gain for skillchaining, either.

When you compare it to heavy DDs, MNK has traded the ability to zerg (although 99% Acc Impetus has improved that a lot) for situational safety when it's the only DD. It has its own niche like most jobs, but that doesn't make it undeserving of high DPS. MNK shouldn't be ahead of heavy DDs, but it definitely shouldn't be far behind, either.

Actually this has no sense. AM3 for 2h weapons work for each hit and whole damage, so AM3 on Ukonvasara being 50% chance for Triple damage is +100% to your white damage.

Verethragna proc only once and only with one hand. With how much multiattack we have on MNK and Kick Attack being a thing too, AM3 from Veret only boost your white damage by ~25%.

This is exactly a reason why Veret MNK white damage before AM3 is ahead of Ukonvasara WAR, but with AM3 Ukonvasara pulls ahead with a really solid lead.

Pretty sure Mythic AM3 works the way I described and I should have clarified that (although in the past AM3 usually only referred to Mythics). Empyrean AM is really weird/unique in the way it works for HTH compared to other weapons, even 1H, and it's very likely a result of SE being scared of making Verethragna too ridiculous. And they weren't wrong, honestly. Verethragna is already #1 for damage in its current state, but a full-powered AM3 would put it so far ahead of any other option that even the notion of making a different REMA would be met with laughter.

Let's also not forget that Entropy restores full MP and catastrophe is basically a free full cure every 3 seconds. That's a lot of utility there.

I hope they reduce the recast for mantra.

All this DRK utility comes in exchange of significant amounts of damage. Catastrophe isn't awful, but it's not great either, and comes at the expense of using Apocalypse. Entropy manages to be worse, and you probably aren't going to be using the scythe that makes it less mediocre. Liberator, for Drains, is probably the best scythe, but it's not Caladbolg.

Spells reduce damage output, so outside of "do it or we're going to wipe", they aren't going to be used multiple times throughout a fight. And aren't main stat drains done on trash monsters before boss fights so you don't have to deal with resist rates?

Also, wyvern breaths as utility? Is this 2007 again?

The whole point of the discussion was that not everything revolves around max DPS. DT-/MEVA gear swaps are also just "utility" that come in exchange for significant amounts of raw damage, but they're still important because they keep you from dying or make a fight easier. DRK casting Absorb-Attri on Lilith to avoid dying from Dread Spikes is an example of putting the job's potential utility to use, even if you have to stop TPing for a second and are technically losing out on damage.

And I didn't say wyvern breaths or all available weapons are useful, just that they exist if you ever need them. A DRG looking to do backup healing in a party or solos without Trusts could still rely on Healing Breaths, for example, even if it's kinda pointless these days. Piercing and Blunt weapons are generally also weaker than R15 Chango, but try doing MT2 on WAR without them.

All this and you are forgetting how powerful Chi Blast is.

Absorb-Attri doesn't actually work on Lilith's Dread Spikes.

All I get from this is that monk should sub dark knight.

Well, oops. I assumed it did since Lilith has zero resistance to regular Dispel.

Scratch that particular example, but my point still stands in general.


Not really powerful enough to make a big difference when other DDs are feeding TP like crazy. No 100% uptime, either, especially when fighting multiple mobs.

My point was that DRK making use of it's utility cripples it's output. On the flip side, MNK making use of their utility doesn't detract, much, from their damage potential. Which I do agree should be higher than it is.

But as making use of it's utility barely does anything to it's potential output, it's potential output should be lower than those that lose significant amounts of damage from making use of their utility.

Most utility comes with losing DPS, but its so much better to have it as option there not. Also whole point fo Eiryl was to point out DRK has no utility vs MNK has it.

Also you are overestimating the impact of DRK utility to its DPS loss. Most of buffs/debuffs you can make during pulls or between them and you will lose almost no time then. For many events you can also prebuff (harder Escha fights for example).

Buffed Drain III lasts for over 5 min and being able not to swap to DT gear when you take hate but instead just tank with 7000+ HP will increase your DPS more than time used for casting Drain. Dread spikes can be cast when you are waiting. Absorb-VIT in group (when used against some target that last a little longer like wave 2 and 3 bosses) boosts DPS of whole group by quite a lot, so there is no DPS loss here, not even personal. All absorb-stat spells can be used as prebuffs for fights like Escha. Stun would be used when you are about to hit by something bad, that would kill you or debuff and drop your DPS even more than casting a spell. Arcana circle will also boost your DPS (and group) more than JA delay required to use them (by a lot actually). Apocalypse would be used when you have no other choice and would die otherwise and dying is definitely higher DPS drop than switching to Apocalypse. Being able to cap haste with just Haste II indirectly also provide utility in form of not requiring a brd or indi haste in party.

DRK has tons of utility and a lot of it is applicable for whole group not only DRK. Chi blast is good, but it wont alone beat everything that DRK can offer.

Your point was quite clear, just not convincing. Nobody is saying you should be spam-casting spells on DRK to actually cripple your output. An on-pull Absorb/Drain 3 or occasional Dread Spikes isn't going to put a huge dent in your parse. Hell, even sleeping a random add won't cost you much. And if you're in a situation where you're forced to use R15 Apocalypse then you're not super worried about max DPS anyway (such as DRK tanking, not zergs or alliance content). As I understand it's the best weapon with LR down anyway, so you're not even losing as much damage as you claim you would.

MNK's utility is very limited in groups with multiple DDs. Mantra is the only big, unique thing they can do and it has terrible uptime.

Actually absorb VIT would probably lose to Impact on wave 2 or 3 boss, which also remind me that DRK has access to Impact, which is another big utility.

I knew i shouldn't have said drk, ya'll can't see past the nose on your face

But lets face it, I could've picked onion knight and you'd still argue about a fictional job.

You're right, the job you mentioned wouldn't have mattered. The issue is that you made an objectively wrong statement.

What? :D MNK is my main job (well DRK too, but just by loking at R15 weapons, I have it for MNK and don't have it for DRK). If I would be biased, it would be toward MNK. Try again.

Not really. It's absolutely correct. You're just looking at not-retards. While I was talking about average ffxi players which aren't not-retards.

but seriously, it's pointless. break smite and bring back monk wagon. Sounds great. *** balance, who needs balance.

Fair enough.

Anyway, I propose we stop discussing DRK in the MNK thread before we clutter up things even more.

lol geeks

The whole point of monk currently boils down to these:

#1 Monk does good damage but falls behind the strongest DD in high buff because it has a lot of it's damage in white damage. So while monk looks really good on paper, it loose out when people spam WS because it's WS aren't as strong or as varied as other strong DD.

#2 Monk subtle blow traits make it a good choice for a lot of situations but the trait don't play well with other DD, making Monk a niche DD.

At least one of those problems should be solved. So either Monk #1 gets something that allows their subtle blows or their ability to suppress TP moves to work effectively with other DD or #2 gets strong WS that scales well in Zerg situations and more variety in WS properties/abilities.

PDIF cap and Asuran + Karams yield upper 20s....replicating fTP would -break- it. Easily.

They sure as ***don't. and only replicating fTP wouldn't even start to break asuran, without higher mods and/or higher fTP to begin with.

"upper 20s" on a skeleton maybe.

2191 x 8 on a level 1 rabbit. That's pretty far from "upper 20s"

asuran is 1.0 ftp, so replicating ftp does not even change it until you add in ws gorget and belt

with both of those, you're looking at 9.6 instead of 8.2, a 17% boost

nowhere near 'broken' out of context, but i personally don't think mnk needs much more damage to be broken as a whole

math hard...

In solo omen before i nabbed vere, i was breaking 20k (on trans, practically 1 shot lessers) with those and rabbit pies...if you dont have karam, i guess you dont understand. Math is nice...but the ambu weapon bonuses are easily different. Maybe perhaps instead of belittling and being condescending...you go try it for yourself for once. Wait.....this is the internet....my bad..too high of an expectation.