IiPunch - Monk Guide

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iiPunch - Monk Guide
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By 2018-12-10 12:53:31
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 Asura.Arico
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By Asura.Arico 2018-12-10 12:55:37  
Asura.Kusaregedo said: »
what's the difference between kick attacks+ on af feet and footwork+ on empy feet/shukuyu?

footwork+ 10 is a 10% attack mod increase.

kick attack+ on af feet is the rate of kick attacks regardless of footwork.
 
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By 2018-12-10 13:00:35
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-12-11 01:26:25  
Actually hitting Impetus cap now, yay. Job points in impetus matter now!

50% critical damage + that you can "reliably" get makes things interesting
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2018-12-11 02:21:18  
99% Acc certainly makes MNK a lot more interesting imo. I forsee a mixture of Spharai/Verethragna/Godhands having usage depending on your buffs and situation. Glanzfaust is probably pretty good too now with spamming Ascetic's Fury.
 
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By 2018-12-11 02:43:19
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By Ruaumoko 2018-12-11 03:09:36  
Accuracy cap going to 99% is a big deal.

That makes Impetus a lot better, still sucks if you miss but you can build stacks.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-12-11 03:13:12  
Also, low key increase to counters. Higher acc means more counters.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-12-11 03:58:28  
Accuracy capping higher is gonna be a big deal for Impetus!
Any testing on the acc yet?

My hypothesys was that, given how it's probably complicated to give different values to main and off hand (the 99% and 95% values seen on dualwield) they were going to give MNK something like 97% but for both hands.
Curious to see what it will be in the end!
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By SimonSes 2018-12-11 04:15:33  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Accuracy capping higher is gonna be a big deal for Impetus!
Any testing on the acc yet?

My hypothesys was that, given how it's probably complicated to give different values to main and off hand (the 99% and 95% values seen on dualwield) they were going to give MNK something like 97% but for both hands.
Curious to see what it will be in the end!

Its most likely 99%. Seems to be confirmed by few tests.
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-12-11 06:10:42  
99% on BOTH hands? Including multiattack and kickattacks etc?
If that's confirmed it's a MASSIVE bonus to Impetus and to the Empybody. To the point that even the old +1 version is gonna be worth using when Impetus is up, on TP and on WS as well (for stuff like Vsmite at least).

Doesn't this give a further bonus to Verethragna over other weapons?
Slight bonus... but still!
 
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-12-11 09:46:26  
Anyone notice a decent increase in ST based WS damage? How about dem 50k Tornado Kicks.
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By Shiva.Flowen 2018-12-11 09:48:12  
Asura.Kusaregedo said: »
i don't remember statistics well enough to know how many samples we need, but 2 hours in reisenjima and parse has showed 99% acc the whole time

Looking likely it's 99% acc on both hands! Very nice buff to impetus and multihit weaponskills eg. raging fists 5 hits landing from 77% to 95% (more when you consider DA/TA/QA procs). Huge difference for asuran fists lol. And as Eiryl pointed out, a boost to counter proc (+2.8% max proc rate I believe?).

3 tiers of damage limit trait for monk is welcome too. Interested to see the impact of the str buff
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By alamihgo 2018-12-11 12:51:11  
Between the STR changes and indirect Impetus buff, does Verethragna charge to the front of the REMA pack?
 Fenrir.Ramzus
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2018-12-11 13:04:01  
Anyone know if Occasionally Attacks Twice (Faith Bagh./Raetic Bagh./Sagitta) can proc on sub fist in addition to the main fist?

Also yeah, Vere is very likely top dog now. I'm in the process of making a Spharai + Vere AG cause I want to test the 3 of them, and potentially Sagitta.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2018-12-11 13:52:05  
SimonSes said: »
I highly doubt that's a proc on kick. Crit Kick under Footwork would easily do way above 1k damage if you hit for 900 with punches, so proc on kick would end up doing like 2500, not 1693. Its actually normal crit kick with Footwork. The reason why damage jumped even higher than expected just by looking at punch damage is because you are not attack capped with punches, so attack bonus to kicks under Footwork made some significant difference too.

As for damage procing on different hit.. hmmm... Looks like it can proc on any attack with main hand weapon, but it's limited to procing only once per attack round? So it would be a little better than empy and relic mechanic, because more chances to proc, but still limited to one proc per round.
looks more like a chat log issue. i’ve never had it happen on anything besides the first hit
 Leviathan.Kingkitt
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By Leviathan.Kingkitt 2018-12-11 13:53:24  
If I recall AG Vere were top before update by a small margin already.
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 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2018-12-11 13:58:14  
If you want to test su5 cleanly, I think brittle rocks work. You can engage, do one attack round, and then disengage. I'm assuming the double damage thing will not be negated by brittle rocks.
 Valefor.Madranta
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By Valefor.Madranta 2018-12-11 22:54:53  
I updated the MNK DPS spreadsheet with this patch's changes. Specifically 99% accuracy cap for both hands and kicks, +0.3 pDIF cap from PDL III and Attack per STR ratio of 4:3 (edit) 1:1. There are some updates I did back in Sept but never shared too, notes listed on the Setup tab.

For comparison I wrote down my DPS before making the changes. The Impetus set change is colossal, going from 4191.115 to 6610.638. The non-Impetus set is much less interesting, but still significant, 4525.962 to 5068.213.

It's always possible I screwed something up in the Impetus tab, since I don't fully understand what's going on there, but the buffs it's listed as giving seem appropriate with a 99% hit rate and Bhikku +1 body.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2018-12-11 23:32:51  
Question; with the improvements to Impetus due to acc, is there a new "impetus UP" set that is better than 4/5 Kenda+1, perhaps with a little relic/af sprinkled in? Since you're going to hit 50% crit, is all of that crit from su3 set really needed if you can find comparable MA on other pieces? Perhaps KA/STP or something?
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By SimonSes 2018-12-12 02:55:35  
Valefor.Madranta said: »
I updated the MNK DPS spreadsheet with this patch's changes. Specifically 99% accuracy cap for both hands and kicks, +0.3 pDIF cap from PDL III and Attack per STR ratio of 4:3. There are some updates I did back in Sept but never shared too, notes listed on the Setup tab.

For comparison I wrote down my DPS before making the changes. The Impetus set change is colossal, going from 4191.115 to 6610.638. The non-Impetus set is much less interesting, but still significant, 4525.962 to 5068.213.

It's always possible I screwed something up in the Impetus tab, since I don't fully understand what's going on there, but the buffs it's listed as giving seem appropriate with a 99% hit rate and Bhikku +1 body.

STR to att is now 4:3? I tho it's 1:1 (+ bonus from Smite on top of that ofc).
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-12-12 03:13:25  
1282 +15 str = 1300

(104)Naked 709 attack + 3 STR = 713
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-12-12 03:17:09  
Sound in line with 1:1 ratio.
15 STR gives you 15 attack, which then gets multiplied by the Tier2 Smite bonus.
Do some rounding and you get to 1300, no?
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-12-12 03:32:50  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Question; with the improvements to Impetus due to acc, is there a new "impetus UP" set that is better than 4/5 Kenda+1, perhaps with a little relic/af sprinkled in? Since you're going to hit 50% crit, is all of that crit from su3 set really needed if you can find comparable MA on other pieces? Perhaps KA/STP or something?
Hope someone more competent will post data, but if I recall crit is like ~5% default, 5% from Merits, then max 15% from dDEX, right?
But on stuff that matters I doubt you're gonna cap dDEX, plus most likely NMs have some sort of reduced crits traits that slightly reduce your chance to crit on them.

Still, at 99% acc, Impetus is gonna be close to what, 45% crit rate average? And 45% crit damage with Empy Body +1.
This becomes ~4% at 80% Acc and was ~19% at 95% acc.
This means that Empy body, even in the old +1 version, is totally worth to use when Impetus is up, and it's gonna be even more worth once the +3 version is released of course.

I dunno about your Kendatsuba question. In the non-body slots it's 22% Crit rate for the HQ version.
But Kendatsuba doesn't "only" have Crit, it also has TA and, don't forget about it, a really high Meva.
Sometimes resisting debuffs at the right time be the highest DPS increase, yo.

Honestly I'd use Bhikku/Hesychast legs and Anchorite+3 feet (Bhikku+3 legs probably gonna win).
At that point wether you want to use Kenda+1 in the Head/Hands slots or some other options, you shouldn't be wasting precious crit rate.
Bhikku legs paired with Body will also grant a small chance for a second kick. Small DPS bonus I know, but it all helps. If it procs during Footwork, during Impetus, on a Crit... nomnom, gonna be quite a nice damage spike :D


Altough I dunno, maybe it's more for personal onanism than for real utility haha
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By SimonSes 2018-12-12 04:02:58  
There is no way for 45% avg Sechs. In theory if you hit 99 hits in a row and miss 100th (the best scenario) then the avg would be ~37%, but if that one miss on 100 would happen at like 50th hit (worst scenario I think), then avg would be ~25%. So the real avg is somewhere between 25% and 37%.
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-12-12 04:52:30  
You sure about that? Which formula/model are you using to represent that and calculate the average Crit rate with 99%?
Because at 95% it was ~19%.

When I tested it on the spreadsheet I used an average of 15% and that was enough to beat the other 3 main body options (Ashera Harness, Adhemar+1, Kendatsuba+1). Only during Impetus, of course.
Did my test with Godhands which has a higher delay, not sure if things change with stuff like Verethragna (because of the MA on Empy body).

15% was a "worst case" estimation, the more realistic average at 95% was 19% as I said.
with 99% hit rate on all hits in an attack round surely it should be closer to 40%?

Wherever it is, it's gonna be better than the ~19% we had at 95% acc, and given how that already was better than other options, of course now Bhikku+1 is gonna be even better with 99%!
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By Asura.Eiryl 2018-12-12 05:06:26  
25% Crit w/o impetus

61% Rotating Impetus/Focus (with a couple pieces of ken)

50,101 samples
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By SimonSes 2018-12-12 06:02:08  
Asura.Sechs said: »
You sure about that? Which formula/model are you using to represent that and calculate the average Crit rate with 99%?
Because at 95% it was ~19%.

Ehhh I love those questions..

I used pure and simple math.
In optimal and super ultra best scenario for Impetus and 99% accuracy, Impetus will start at 0% on first hit, then go up to 50% with next 50 hits and stays at 50% for next 48 hits, then 100th hit will be a miss.

That gives you 51 hits with avg crit dmg 25%, then 48 hits with avg crit damage 50%. Avg for all 99 hits is 37.12% and once again, that's the best case scenario. Worst case scenario with one miss among 100 hits is when miss occur exactly at 51th hit, meaning Impetus would never fully charge, then total avg for 99 hits would be slightly less than 25%.

Now whichever real life model you would build to actually simulate Impetus avg crit damage would still be within the boundaries of worst and best case scenario. If you want to make a realyl simple model you can take best case scenario ~37% and worst ~25%, add them and divide by 2, which gives us ~31%.

For 95% best case scenario would be again 51 hits with avg 25% crit damage, then 44 hits with avg crit damage 50%. That gives 36.58%. Worst case scenario tho, is with miss at 10, 30, 50, 70 and 90th hits, which would result with avg crit damage = 7.96%

Again, whatever model you will implement to simulate real life, the result would need to be between those boundaries. With simple model being again (~36.5% + ~8%)/2 = ~22%.

Also before update it wasn't exactly 95% afaik, because 99% with main hand and 95% with offhand is more like 97% total (not sure what was the kick cap, which would change total a little too ofc).
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2018-12-12 06:15:47  
p(streak_length) = hit_rate^streak_length * (1-hit_rate)
crit(streak_length) = (streak_length-1)*0.01

I get 38.7% as the theoretical number for 99% Acc, but if you were to discount it to 60% uptime (which is the minimum) then I would be pulled down to 23.2%.

Edge effects are going to be a real concern too, in that you're always going to see hits 1-10 but you don't necessarily see the end of your chain because Impetus wears off.

You also can't have a >100% crit rate, which might be an issue in some situations.


I'd be comfortable calling it 20% average including the discount.
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