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IiPunch - Monk Guide
iiPunch - Monk Guide
DirectX said: »
Does a RUN in DD gear take less damage than another non-tank DD also?
From magic damage absolutely, and a lot of debuffs won't land.
Physical damage you get a chance to parry it I guess, and if you have foil up you get a chance to avoid TP moves.
Other than that I don't think there's a huge difference in the physical damage taken by RUN or any other DD.
VIT and DEF values are probably higher but I doubt it's a big difference.
The big ones are in the Meva, MDB and the high parry rate.
I dunno, I guess it depends on which buffs you decide to keep up. Each buff you decide to keep up subtracts to your DPS, unless it's something you can put up before engaging and it's gonna last the whole fight.
In this regard BLU has a clear advantage over most (all?) other DDs.
Probably I missed something from your question, I dunno, just my two cents :x
RUN as a DD is no slouch primarily because reso is just that good. Its only real fault is its atk and thats the easiest thing to compensate through buffs, lionheart just makes reso even better with 500 tp and an additional sc property/aftermath. To answer which would win itd likely be RUN regardless
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
Whoops. Forgot to put Begrudging Ring into my VS set.
RUN as a DD barely takes less damage than other DDs, imo. They've got access to runes which will make them more resistant to 1 element, but that's about where their defensive capabilities stop. Their TP gear is the same as any other light DDs which doesn't have defensive benefits, and their hybrid gear is not nearly as good as other 2 hander hybrid options which doesn't help, either.
They've got foil (as Sechs said) but the duration isn't particularly long and recasting stuff mid battle will tank your dps pretty quickly. RUN also needs to be capped attack for them to really shine which is a little harder than other DD since they've got no smite and Resolution has an attack penalty, but with decent buffs it isn't hard to pull off. Having a Lionheart will also increase the DD capabilities a ***ton.
tl;dr RUN max dps potential is high when under max buff conditions but not great when you want to play more defensively or are not capped buffs
edit: SAM in a hybrid set probably has more defensive capability atm while pumping out way higher DPS
They've got foil (as Sechs said) but the duration isn't particularly long and recasting stuff mid battle will tank your dps pretty quickly. RUN also needs to be capped attack for them to really shine which is a little harder than other DD since they've got no smite and Resolution has an attack penalty, but with decent buffs it isn't hard to pull off. Having a Lionheart will also increase the DD capabilities a ***ton.
tl;dr RUN max dps potential is high when under max buff conditions but not great when you want to play more defensively or are not capped buffs
edit: SAM in a hybrid set probably has more defensive capability atm while pumping out way higher DPS
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
RUN as a DD barely takes less damage than other DDs, imo. They've got access to runes which will make them more resistant to 1 element, but that's about where their defensive capabilities stop. Their TP gear is the same as any other light DDs which doesn't have defensive benefits, and their hybrid gear is not nearly as good as other 2 hander hybrid options which doesn't help, either.
Open up menu, look at job traits, look at job gifts, realize what you just wrote.
[+]
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
RUN as a DD barely takes less damage than other DDs, imo.
If we're talking about magical damage, even without runes up, the difference is HUGE because of the insane Meva and MDB RUN gets compared to any other job.
If we're talking about Physical then yes, I suppose with full DD gear, Foil Down, Phalanx Down, Battuta Down... then yeah, the difference between a ddRUN and another DD probably won't be that big.
For short fights though RUN can ride all those defensive buffs and it becomes another story entirely even for physical damage.
[+]
Whoops, didn't look at MDB gifts. Their base trait isn't particularly impressive, though. (22 base vs +56 from gifts)
Fade kind of trivializes Magic damage in the first place, though
Fade kind of trivializes Magic damage in the first place, though
Even for physical damage, your parrying rate is 27%+ in basically any gearset.
[+]
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
Whoops, didn't look at MDB gifts. Their base trait isn't particularly impressive, though. (22 base vs +56 from gifts)
Fade kind of trivializes Magic damage in the first place, though
Fade kind of trivializes Magic damage in the first place, though
Any debuff you resist converts into more damage.
Think about resisting Amnesia or a strong Paralyze for instance.
Or even resisting Stun.
It's one of the reasons why RUN is so particularly good as a DD against such mobs, like Warder of Courage.
RUN only gets ~35 more M. Eva than MNK and SAM via gifts, any M. Eva benefit they have over them is completely negated by Kendatsuba since it has stupid DD potential with Inyanga levels of M. Eva.
I did mention their runes though, but they only get it against one element. It's not as helpful on monsters with a wide variety of debuffs (think Albumen) but Odyllic Subterfuge and their AoE resist JA is pretty nice for party play as well.
I did mention their runes though, but they only get it against one element. It's not as helpful on monsters with a wide variety of debuffs (think Albumen) but Odyllic Subterfuge and their AoE resist JA is pretty nice for party play as well.
RUN can do great DD and has good defensive abilities although it has been marginalized a lot by other two handers. WAR/DRK have much better Reso gear (other than Lionheart). WAR/DRK/SAM all have very good hybrid gear options too. The magic evasion has been marginalized by Kendatsuba +1 (insane levels of magic evasion) that RUN can't equip. The ark set is also interesting because of the resist all status effects trait. To make run DD excel, you need to be attack capped and this is much harder to do on RUN than any other 2 hander. DRK/WAR get smite/berserk/last resort/attack bonus/etc. RUN gets nothing like that.
In regards to MDB, it's nice but often irrelevant. We use fade for fights where magic damage is a potential threat, so any MDB boost is only slightly helpful because the magic damage is already trivial. I'd take Mighty Strikes over those traits any day.
In regards to MDB, it's nice but often irrelevant. We use fade for fights where magic damage is a potential threat, so any MDB boost is only slightly helpful because the magic damage is already trivial. I'd take Mighty Strikes over those traits any day.
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
RUN only gets ~35 more M. Eva than MNK and SAM via gifts, any M. Eva benefit they have over them is completely negated by Kendatsuba since it has stupid DD potential with Inyanga levels of M. Eva.
I did mention their runes though, but they only get it against one element. It's not as helpful on monsters with a wide variety of debuffs (think Albumen) but Odyllic Subterfuge and their AoE resist JA is pretty nice for party play as well.
I did mention their runes though, but they only get it against one element. It's not as helpful on monsters with a wide variety of debuffs (think Albumen) but Odyllic Subterfuge and their AoE resist JA is pretty nice for party play as well.
You're also forgetting Tenacity.
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
I think it will take some time to figure out how to best play MNK. My thoughts are to stagger Impetus and Footwork. You can use Raging Fists while Impetus is up, and Tornado Kick/Dragon Kick while Footwork is up. I think that you can double dip with Kick Attacks gear (+120 DMG AF+3) and Godhands (DMG +197) while Footwork is up. I haven't tested this though.
Why raging fists while impetus is up ? Tantra body stores the impetus hit count and must be used with a VS while impetus is up.
I never thought about it until today, since update do we have a need now for MA gear? I know before we capped with just haste, but now?
MNK can wear some, depending upon your weapon.
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
So the minimum delay we can experience with Godhands is:
(480 + 138) * .2 = 123.6
When Haste-capped and Mastered, Godhands delay is:
(480 + 138 - 210) * (1024 - 256 - 448) / 1024 = 127.5
13 more Martial Arts would put you at 123.4375, or a hair too far.
12 is the most you'd want to wear.
For sake of comparison:
Glanzfaust
So the minimum delay we can experience with Glanzfaust is:
(480 + 126) * .2 = 121.2
When Haste-capped and Mastered, Glanzfaust delay is:
(480 + 126 - 210) * (1024 - 256 - 448) / 1024 = 123.75
Spharai
So the minimum delay we can experience with Spharai is:
(480 + 116) * .2 = 119.2
When Haste-capped and Mastered, Spharai delay is:
(480 + 116 - 210) * (1024 - 256 - 448) / 1024 = 120.625
Verethragna
So the minimum delay we can experience with Verethragna is:
(480 + 81) * .2 = 112.2
When Haste-capped and Mastered, Verethragna delay is:
(480 + 81 - 210) * (1024 - 256 - 448) / 1024 = 109.6875
You could add up to 8 Martial Arts gear and not exceed the delay cap when wearing Glanzfaust.
You could add up to 4 Martial Arts gear and not exceed the delay cap when wearing Spharai.
Please, anyone, feel free to confirm my method and results.
What does this mean? Well looking forward...
It means, unless you use Godhands or Glanzfaust, wearing Bhikku Cyclas +1 during Impetus puts you in the same goddamn spot you were in prior to SE's misguided, stupid, brain-dead adjustment to all H2H weapons rather than to MNK's misguided, stupid, brain-dead gift table.
And if, whenever they get around to adding them, Bhikku Cyclas +2 and +3 have higher Martial Arts values, they could put all MNKs back where they were prior to the August Downdate.
There aren't enough curses in the world to express how I'm feeling towards SE's incompetence.
(480 + 138) * .2 = 123.6
When Haste-capped and Mastered, Godhands delay is:
(480 + 138 - 210) * (1024 - 256 - 448) / 1024 = 127.5
13 more Martial Arts would put you at 123.4375, or a hair too far.
12 is the most you'd want to wear.
For sake of comparison:
Glanzfaust
So the minimum delay we can experience with Glanzfaust is:
(480 + 126) * .2 = 121.2
When Haste-capped and Mastered, Glanzfaust delay is:
(480 + 126 - 210) * (1024 - 256 - 448) / 1024 = 123.75
Spharai
So the minimum delay we can experience with Spharai is:
(480 + 116) * .2 = 119.2
When Haste-capped and Mastered, Spharai delay is:
(480 + 116 - 210) * (1024 - 256 - 448) / 1024 = 120.625
Verethragna
So the minimum delay we can experience with Verethragna is:
(480 + 81) * .2 = 112.2
When Haste-capped and Mastered, Verethragna delay is:
(480 + 81 - 210) * (1024 - 256 - 448) / 1024 = 109.6875
You could add up to 8 Martial Arts gear and not exceed the delay cap when wearing Glanzfaust.
You could add up to 4 Martial Arts gear and not exceed the delay cap when wearing Spharai.
Please, anyone, feel free to confirm my method and results.
What does this mean? Well looking forward...
It means, unless you use Godhands or Glanzfaust, wearing Bhikku Cyclas +1 during Impetus puts you in the same goddamn spot you were in prior to SE's misguided, stupid, brain-dead adjustment to all H2H weapons rather than to MNK's misguided, stupid, brain-dead gift table.
And if, whenever they get around to adding them, Bhikku Cyclas +2 and +3 have higher Martial Arts values, they could put all MNKs back where they were prior to the August Downdate.
There aren't enough curses in the world to express how I'm feeling towards SE's incompetence.
so with godhands it sounds like mache+1 > telos for most uses?
With Godhands, swapping from Telos to Mache +1 would be:
10 Attk, STP 5 vs. DEX 8, DA 1%, slightly faster attack speed and very slightly -STP.
Pick your poison.
10 Attk, STP 5 vs. DEX 8, DA 1%, slightly faster attack speed and very slightly -STP.
Pick your poison.
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
on the topic of relic, i'm still having trouble understanding how it's better than godhands. godhands has 500 tp bonus and 15 base dmg over spharai which shouldn't be negated by the lower delay and relic proc. maybe with uncapped attack situations? but even then, that 500 tpbonus on howling fist should dunk spharai
Coming back to this, I think it is because Austar's sim can't cap attack, accuracy, both or something along those lines. We went round and round about this very thing some 40 pages ago. It involved Malaise as a MNK DPS buff.
uh, no. ken set capped both, yours couldn't cap acc and if it did, it couldn't cap attack.
Kendatsuba capped both without any attack on it? Okay. My set, as I had shown, could cap Accuracy and had more Attack on it... Again, pages and pages.
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
Kendatsuba capped both without any attack on it? Okay. My set, as I had shown, could cap Accuracy and had more Attack on it... Again, pages and pages.
That's with Malaise right? XD
In regards to Mache Earring +1, I don't think it's a clear winner.
Your marginal attack speed increases by 3.15%.
Your base TP per strike goes from 116 to 113.
You lose some stats from swapping out your earring.
Swapping Sherida
-3% DA
-5 Store TP
Swapping Dedition
+2% DA
-8 Store TP
Your marginal attack speed increases by 3.15%.
Your base TP per strike goes from 116 to 113.
You lose some stats from swapping out your earring.
Swapping Sherida
-3% DA
-5 Store TP
Swapping Dedition
+2% DA
-8 Store TP
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
That's with Malaise right? XD
For anyone curious about the nonsense of Austar's sim results, it all stems from a TP set posted on page 144 and much debate from 145, mostly 146 onwards.
His unrelated "stabs" are regarding my belief, assuming you can buff past or select targets that don't require specialized gear for surviving/resisting magic attacks or negative statuses, maximum gain is gearing for maximum DPS.
To set a baseline, optimal TP set, supported by the sets posted on the front page, we agreed on Apex Crabs as a target. These don't nuke, don't paralyze, amnesia or terror. Like I said, baseline stuff.
I then referenced a third party page detailing the accuracy requires of Apex Crabs and showed the offered set could easily cap accuracy in a number of ways, whether by food or available buffs. And not crazy buffs. Granted, at that time, Focus was more useful for keeping a steady level of accuracy.
We went back and forth about how either accuracy wouldn't be capped or attack wouldn't be capped until finally, the cat came out of the bag and it was revealed that one of the buffs set in the results above was... Geo-Malaise.
It's an entertaining read, so feel free to grab some popcorn and take a step into the WTFmachine.
His unrelated "stabs" are regarding my belief, assuming you can buff past or select targets that don't require specialized gear for surviving/resisting magic attacks or negative statuses, maximum gain is gearing for maximum DPS.
To set a baseline, optimal TP set, supported by the sets posted on the front page, we agreed on Apex Crabs as a target. These don't nuke, don't paralyze, amnesia or terror. Like I said, baseline stuff.
I then referenced a third party page detailing the accuracy requires of Apex Crabs and showed the offered set could easily cap accuracy in a number of ways, whether by food or available buffs. And not crazy buffs. Granted, at that time, Focus was more useful for keeping a steady level of accuracy.
We went back and forth about how either accuracy wouldn't be capped or attack wouldn't be capped until finally, the cat came out of the bag and it was revealed that one of the buffs set in the results above was... Geo-Malaise.
It's an entertaining read, so feel free to grab some popcorn and take a step into the WTFmachine.
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
we agreed on Apex Crabs as a target
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
I then referenced a third party page detailing the accuracy requires of Apex Crabs and showed the offered set could easily cap accuracy in a number of ways, whether by food or available buffs
Fenrir.Cherrywine said: »
the cat came out of the bag and it was revealed that one of the buffs set in the results above was... Geo-Malaise.
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
RUN only gets ~35 more M. Eva than MNK and SAM via gifts
If you want to focus them all on a single specific debuff and use Pflug before pop, you become almost immune to the debuffs of that specific element.
It makes a huge difference on certain fights (check WoC for instance), or you can spread them across 3 different elements. With Pflug up that's still a pretty big resistance rate, doesn't cover all of course but 3 elements is a lot of debuffs.
Quote:
any M. Eva benefit they have over them is completely negated by Kendatsuba since it has stupid DD potential with Inyanga levels of M. Eva.
Does a RUN in DD gear take less damage than another non-tank DD
So it was "generic non-tank DD", not "DD jobs with HQ 5/5 Kendatsuba on".
I'm not saying you should keep Kendatsuba out of the scenario because realistically it matters, but the original question was more about the intrinsic capabilities of the jobs, not of the gear they can equip.
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