For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

Yeah, I kinda meant real-world numbers. Here is the issue.. in order to even get off the floor you need a good chunk of evasion, then another 100+.. DT gear doesn't have this problem, it is just straight damage taken, with no minimum amount to even see it work.

Certainly I agree the scenario I presented favours evasion set, but that was just to illustrate that there are scenarios on the spectrum of evade rate and -PDT that would actually benefit a SUPER MAX evasion set, or just adding evasion at various values.

I would certainly never argue that they are always useful, just as you mentioned at very low evade rates, PDT is more competetive.

I also just want to add that you don't necessarily need to cap evade rate to see gains in favor of evasion and you can sacrifice minimal losses in evade rate for substantial -DT (Ie: Defending ring)

So I don't believe that a strictly either/or comparison is a very reasonable one.

Sorry to be curt, but you don't need to "add that you don't necessarily need to cap evade rate to see gains in favor of evasion." My conclusion was that your evasion rate needed to hit higher than 50% to be better.

Granted, I assume 0% DT in the evasion set.

It doesn't take much evasion to be better than DT. Even just looking at the chart you made yourself, at every point below 30% DT, it is better to go "up" (10% more evasion rate) than "over" (10% more DT). Even at higher than 30% DT, it's always better when above a 40% evasion rate. But there are no rings with 20 evasion, of course.

At 70% evasion rate and 0% DT, +6 evasion is just equivalent to 10% DT. At 50% evasion rate, it's equal to 6% DT. And you're still better off using evasion+6 over Dark Ring since it'll be better if you happen to have more than 50% evasion rate (especially since your primary goal in the first place is to definitively hit over 50% evasion). Numbers shift a little if you have DT in other slots already, but not by much, and I don't assume you'd have more than 10% elsewhere.

That said, you generally shouldn't construct a general "hybrid" set for two reasons:
1. If your focus is evasion, you need to ensure that you hit at least 50% to make it worth it, and if you don't know your monster's accuracy, then it's quite unreasonable to be doing these microcalculations (even if you do know the monster's accuracy, it's still pretty unreasonable to make a set for each margin).
2. If your focus is PDT, I highly doubt the amount of evasion you'll be able to stuff through the cracks will be enough to break the floor, making the point moot, especially if you have to sacrifice any PDT, no matter how little, for it.

I don't know a thing about evasion gear options, but I'm guessing Defending Ring is one of the few exceptions because of its high DT, and the generally low evasion+ available in that slot. There could be other gear that is interchangeable at certain levels, but it doesn't matter if you (or rather I) can provide a single scenario or two where the points may change, because what's more unreasonable than to use either/or comparisons is to suggest gearing for the scenario that you have 50%, but not 60% evasion. Few people care enough about their accuracy to create entirely fluid acc sets as it is, and I'm not going to start recommending fluid evasion sets either--it just tends to be more helpful to give general rules of thumb, even if they aren't always exact.

That phrasing was in response to the previous comment about capping evade rate on 119 comment and also, as you mentioned your 0% DT comparisons.

Interestingly, on that subject, the new Scoprion Harness coming from Unity has high evasion and -6%PDT. The Kabaanx trousers in the referenced set can be augmented with -PDT as well.

On the topic of "getting off the floor" it seems like we have a lack of data, though (at least in this conversation). I've seen coments in this thread like "it would take a lot to just get off the floor." (Not just referencing your responses) But without specific knowledge of monster acc (as you said) or testing I don't see how one could say that with confidence...or what "a lot" even means, let alone whether it's possible to acheive with current gear.

I'm going to have some time off over the Chistmas break, I may try to get some numbers.

Well folks, it seems we are back. Rudra's is now f*cking nuts.

They'll probably nerf it soon, but right now... omfg.

Just did 26486 at 300 tp with bully sneak attack on a very weak mob

New WS Text reads "Deals Sextuple Damage"

Deals the sex...heh heh heh heh

Pretty much.
12k against adl unstacked, with just th gear (i need some rudras sets).

29188 to a tulfaire in maj rav 300tp SATA

Went and did Tojil run on Vajra THF to check it out. My high was a Sneak Attack 300 TP Rudra's it was 31K on the eft NM. Then also a 29K on the raptor NM and Tojil with Mandalic Stab. I was also doing 6-7K mandalic stabs unstacked on Tojil with 100TP. Averaging just about 500-1000 higher than the monks with smite. No reason a well geared THF can't hold their own in a DD spot in most events. This has been the case for quite awhile and now THF is even better too many gimp TH only THFs so I'm sure generally people still won't take THF but figured I would share.

What's the word on stroke fellas? I assume Rudra is so *** broken that we won't even consider Stroke anymore... but does it at least do half damage lol?

Cant say I've investigated much, but Stroke seems somewhat improved, eyeballing puts it better than Evisc, but still way behind Rudra's.

Got kinda caught up messing around on DNC, which has possibly benefitted even more than THF from the dagger changes.

Ain't that the F@#$%ing truth…

MS was well behind Rudras, not bad but it seems like thf is destined to Rudras all the things

Can't wait for all the Rudra screenshots.

Yay for DW legs and MAB +11 Su1 body and the SH with 6PDT

ikr

Ftp:
Rudra- 8 @ 1000, 16.25 @ 2000, 20 @ 3000
Mercy- 6

Let's get this party started.

Really wish people wouldn't.

well dunno if it's battlemod but I couldn't see any damage in my brief time playing tonight.

yeah, you have to unload battlemod, anything that changes the chat box will not work.

Not working, probably no addon/plugin related to chat log wont work due to new feature (double window). Same to timestamp and enternity arent working.

Aww, would have liked to see the damage I was doing, we were fighting Largantuan, got the body, my Rudra's seemed to be dropping him pretty well, was beating a BLU and a very poorly geared SAM in parse.

We went to duo achuka with a pld friend, was averaging 11 / 12k @100tp & 18k @200tp, with some pick @24k (Rudra's stacked)

Attack down aura was taking 400 attack from me.

Awesome update.

It's so broken. Best ws in the game. 20 FTP is outrageous lol.

There's a 0% chance this doesn't get a nerf.

It went from like 8kish on average to 20k on the low end...

Correction*** Bane Quote>>> "Let the games begin"

I'm looking forward to actually seeing my Rudra's damage tonight!

What was it before update?