For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

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2010-06-21
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For the Shinies! A Guide for Thief
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 Phoenix.Gavroches
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By Phoenix.Gavroches 2024-03-15 07:20:21  
SimonSes said: »

[ In Sandoria I could probably tribox 10M damage on BLU in first 10minutes of wave 1, doing 250-500k damage per cast.


That’s I have yet to see, would love to though
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By Nariont 2024-03-15 07:45:19  
Just pull blue eyes and use aoes, wont take long to hit that combined total
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By SimonSes 2024-03-15 08:04:34  
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »
SimonSes said: »

[ In Sandoria I could probably tribox 10M damage on BLU in first 10minutes of wave 1, doing 250-500k damage per cast.


That’s I have yet to see, would love to though

Here is like regular entomb



Combined damage probably around 300k+

Here is lucky Tenebral



Combined damage over 800k

With good puller, who can pull 30+ mobs, you would be hitting 1-3M per cast. You could have a problem with drops hitting the ground then though. Advantage of doing this on BLU over other magic AoE is that Entomb petrifies everything, so there is no SPs going on (especially RUN, NIN, SMN and BST SPs are something you dont want to trigger while dealing with bigger pull).
 Phoenix.Gavroches
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By Phoenix.Gavroches 2024-03-15 08:15:31  
Heard of it, never saw it. That’s amazing. So pull and just entomb? I assume few buff on blu, maybe, I see you have 3 trust so maybe not
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By SimonSes 2024-03-15 08:51:12  
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »
Heard of it, never saw it. That’s amazing. So pull and just entomb? I assume few buff on blu, maybe, I see you have 3 trust so maybe not

I think only offensive buff was Malaise and StarSibyl aura. Rest was utility/defensive like marches, ballads, barrier, minne, phalanx, because I was pulling on BLU.
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By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2024-03-15 10:09:58  
SimonSes said: »
Combined damage over 800k

Reminds me of this post from the BLM forums:

 Phoenix.Gavroches
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By Phoenix.Gavroches 2024-03-15 10:16:42  
WTF….
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By SimonSes 2024-03-15 10:52:33  
That's not BLM, but SCH I think. Empy +3 feet works for magic WS + some of those are day/weahter bonus proc.

Generally reaching high AoE magic damage in dynamis D is not a problem. The problem is if you won't one shot things (and 40k wouldn't) and you risk getting shot in the face with for example Charm. THF could easily spam 30k(?)+ AE too and kill everything, but it's the same risk to get hit with charm, Mijin or other stupid SP.

It's also different if you have like 3-4 people doing AoE, then mobs usually die before they can SP.

If you do it lowman, BLU Entomb is simply the safest method. Entomb > Entomb > Tenebral takes like 20 sec (you need to wait for recast on 2nd Entomb) to cast and will annihilate everything.
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By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2024-03-15 10:57:51  
SimonSes said: »
That's not BLM, but SCH I think.

You're probably right, my memory is ***.
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 Asura.Melliny
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By Asura.Melliny 2024-03-15 14:23:17  
Magic weaponskills scale really hard. I still have a screenshot about a dozen pages back in the black mage forms from the old crawler's nest cleave party's (before they ruined the camp with locus mobs), of earth crusher hitting everything in range for 50-70k. Unlike elemental magic, earth crusher, cataclysm, and aeolian edge don't suffer multi target damage reduction so you just buff the magic offense stats and go ham. It's pretty easy to cleave wave 1 and 2 for 15-30k aeolian edges with tp offhand, provided you aren't fighting a group with magic cleave resistance. All zones can screw with magic aoe if you pull the wrong color statue eyes. I frequently get out Xoanin on warrior and spam cataclysm when I'm in sandy and the tank gets a bunch of physical resistant pulls. Dynamis is one of the easiest places to magic cleave in. That scholar damage is quite nice. It's always fun seeing the big numbers pop up like that.

Quote:
Just pull blue eyes and use aoes, wont take long to hit that combined total

This is only true in Sandoria and Windurst. In Jeuno blue eyes reduces AoE damage by 99%, so you need to pull green there if you want to cleave. And in bastok blue eyes reduces all light based elemental damage by 95% while increasing dark based elemental damage by 30%, while green does the reverse. So if you want to aeolian edge cleave in bastok you have to pull green, but if you want to spam cataclysm in bastok you have to pull blue.
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-03-15 14:29:14  
Asura.Melliny said: »
Jeuno, bastok, and windy can screw with magic aoe if you pull the wrong color statue eyes.

Sandy, bastok (depending on element), and windy have magic-resistant eyes. Jeuno take full (bonus) damage from all types, regardless of eye color.
 Asura.Melliny
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By Asura.Melliny 2024-03-15 14:35:39  
Quote:
Jeuno take full (bonus) damage from all types, regardless of eye color.

This is incorrect. If you pull blue eyes in jeuno then any AoE damage is reduced to 1% on additional mobs. This includes physical AoE as well as magic AoE. Warrior's fell cleave will deal full damage to the primary target and hit all additional targets for (low) triple digit damage, and aeolian edge will hit the primary target for 15-30k and every other mob will take 80-100 damage.

Trust me, I've seen this more than enough times to know. Every zones has specifics where you need to pay attention if you want to cleave a specific thing. If you want to cleave in jeuno you MUST pull green eyes. Blue eyes in jeuno makes cleaving literally impossible.
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By SimonSes 2024-03-15 15:00:04  
Asura.Melliny said: »
Unlike elemental magic, earth crusher, cataclysm, and aeolian edge don't suffer multi target damage reduction

Same as blue magic, that's why BLU is king of magic cleave. You are also not limited to any element, you literally have all of them available and most of them with very helpful utility effects like stun, petrify, terror, flash, attack down, Burn(-63INT), silence, def down.

If you want to cleave on THF, I would suggest getting PLD or RUN who can keep hate on BST mobs, so THF wont get charmed in the process.
 Bismarck.Johnb
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By Bismarck.Johnb 2024-03-15 23:01:05  
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
If I were you, I would put alexandrite into the qiqirn as I found it, but not buy any.

Immediately do the trials for Centovente, it's really easy and the dagger is insanely strong

Mandau is utter trash for THF, don't bother unless you want a lockstyle or are a collector

Mpu Gandring is a pie in the sky, "maybe some year" project, don't even sweat it

Don't sleep on Ternion Dagger, Sandung, and Gleti's knife. If you can get access to these, go for them, they'll be good holdovers.

Work on the Twashtar trials right away, then gauge how difficult it will be to make the $$$. To get it to 119 AG will take a lot of gil but it's worth it in the end because it's irreplaceable for most times you want to do damage on THF.

Also consider that nobody will want your THF for most endgame content, so weigh that when deciding how much time and gil to put into the job. Have a backup job or 3 for actually doing content, and make sure they get reasonably well-geared too.

What if I finish Centovente with TP Bonus before Twashtar/Vajra? Is it worth it to offhand it on say Odium, Sandung, etc. considering Centovente doesn't have much accuracy on it.
 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-03-15 23:09:53  
Bismarck.Johnb said: »
What if I finish Centovente with TP Bonus before Twashtar/Vajra? Is it worth it to offhand it on say Odium, Sandung, etc. considering Centovente doesn't have much accuracy on it.

Depends on the content, your other gear, ML, etc.

Oftentimes you can afford to wear Cento
 Bismarck.Johnb
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By Bismarck.Johnb 2024-03-15 23:56:59  
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Bismarck.Johnb said: »
What if I finish Centovente with TP Bonus before Twashtar/Vajra? Is it worth it to offhand it on say Odium, Sandung, etc. considering Centovente doesn't have much accuracy on it.

Depends on the content, your other gear, ML, etc.

Oftentimes you can afford to wear Cento

Current gearset below. Augments written in the comments.
ItemSet 395149
 Lakshmi.Sahzi
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By Lakshmi.Sahzi 2024-03-16 09:30:59  
Not bad for a baseline start. Here's what I'd do, as you can get this all done in an afternoon.

Head
Ask someone in your shell to help with Yilan (Ru'an Escha NM). He's not so hard and a talented player (or 3) could take him out without issue. 70k for the NQ vexed cap and you've got an adhemar bonnet. You can skip this and just do skulkers cap (which will become BiS) but I'd do adhemar. Mine is +1 and I use it often in other jobs.

Ammo
Go get a Ginsen from the sealions den HTBF. 1 friend plus trusts can crush it. This will hold you until you have the 5m or so for aurgelmir.

Ear
Go solo warder of fortitude and get the dedition earring. It will be an annoying afternoon, but easy. And it's BiS.

Weapon
Tauret (or kaja dagger) is an amazing piece of equipment that can be got with determination. It will last you til your REMA is done (and beyond, in some cases).

Thats what I'd do to get you rolling better. Gearing thf properly is an absolute treasure hunt. Enjoy it.
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By jubes 2024-03-16 09:53:31  
shijo from domain invasion is a nice fast dagger upgrade too, if you path D and don't have the 500 JP gift yet you can replace one of those earrings for dedition as mentioned. depends on augments on the taming sari if it would beat it i guess.
 Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-03-28 00:06:48  
Does + Steal gear have a cap? My gut tells me it's 15%. Why?

I found this statement in the old FFXIclopedia page: https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Steal

Quote:
As a result, the maximum Steal enhancement that a Thief can receive is a constant Steal+15, or Steal+18 with Rogue's Ring, active only with less than 75% HP and less than 100% TP.

If you added up all the non-ilvl gear pieces it totaled 15. It seems very plausible that rather than carry all that junk into the ilvl era. SE said, "We'll just stick the +15 on the 119 boots and you can toss all that junk and stay ilvl with 1 piece.

Just like what they did with Empy boots to cap out your TH on 1 piece. So there is a precedent imo.

I guess the question is, does anyone know of testing that proves using more than +15 Steal is actually effective?
 Asura.Melliny
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By Asura.Melliny 2024-03-28 07:57:23  
There is no testing to prove or disprove that more than + 15 steal is effective. That kind of testing would require a sample size so immense it just isn't feasible. It's probable steal has a cap (I think all ability + gear caps at some point), and it may be 15. But we can't prove it. It's also not that important. The only relevant steal thing is impish horn for peach power. It's better to just get a bunch of friends together and keep resetting steal with random and wild card than it is to go in solo for that. I've gotten a bunch of boxes with +15 steal, but people kinda lost interest in farming that.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2024-03-28 08:41:27  
It says that because when it was written you could only get that much steal+ not because it was considered the cap.
00:38, 1 September 2008

Unlikely that it caps, or if it does, the cap is beyond the obtainable amount, unworthy of testing tbh
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 Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello
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By Quetzalcoatl.Tomasello 2024-03-28 09:04:23  
SimonSes said: »
That's not BLM, but SCH I think. Empy +3 feet works for magic WS + some of those are day/weahter bonus proc.

He did it at first on BLM then switched to SCH. It works equally well on both jobs. You're right though, once or twice a run he'd die because he got a few resists and got murdered on SCH. That was never a problem on BLM because manawall. Even if the numbers were slightly lower everything still died on BLM in one shot that wasn't a resist.
 Cerberus.Dekar
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By Cerberus.Dekar 2024-03-28 11:46:30  
SimonSes said: »
That's not BLM, but SCH I think. Empy +3 feet works for magic WS + some of those are day/weahter bonus proc.

I honestly had no idea that the Arbatel Loafers Klimaform + worked on elemental WS. The page for it only mentions "spells."
 Shiva.Myamoto
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By Shiva.Myamoto 2024-03-28 12:01:17  
Cerberus.Dekar said: »
SimonSes said: »
That's not BLM, but SCH I think. Empy +3 feet works for magic WS + some of those are day/weahter bonus proc.

I honestly had no idea that the Arbatel Loafers Klimaform + worked on elemental WS. The page for it only mentions "spells."

It certainly does, even though it says "spells", it is definitely coded simply as "magic damage" or however the spaghetti code works.
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 Phoenix.Gavroches
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By Phoenix.Gavroches 2024-03-28 18:28:10  
Would love to know few details, like tank pull or straight? Buff cor geo? Also definitely learned the arbatel loafers, that will make me rethink tons of other WS on many job as the calculator might not count for those “spaghetti”
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By Meeble 2024-03-28 19:18:11  
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »
Would love to know few details, like tank pull or straight? Buff cor geo? Also definitely learned the arbatel loafers, that will make me rethink tons of other WS on many job as the calculator might not count for those “spaghetti”

There's a lot of options; It depends on your group, their jobs, and practice/comfort level, really. You could have traditional style pulls with a tank and sleeper(unless Jeuno) to keep things safe and locked down, or just have support for several BLU's pulling, sleeping, and killing their own groups. Make sure you have a plan for bad pulls or off-color links, they will happen.

THF(especially with Su5) can probably evasion tank and cleave their own pulls, but probably require more support than a BLU. Some mambos, some heals, maybe a COR to one-shot statues or BST/NIN mobs.
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By Bismarck.Johnb 2024-04-03 09:11:06  
Sorry for the noob question but I don't understand why it says
"A TP set also needs enough accuracy to hit the 99% accuracy cap on appropriate content, then once accuracy is at cap we want Triple Attack for more attacks and Store TP for better TP generation." in the OP. What about Quadruple Attack or Double Attack? For example, it says Store TP is better for Toutatis' Cape instead of the Double Attack augment for a TP set. Why is Store TP better?
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-04-03 09:19:35  
QA is fine, but THF has next-to-0 options for QA on gear. DA is not great because of the priority order for multi-attacks.

If you have 50% triple attack in your TP set, you effectively only get 5% DA from your cape. If you have 50% TA in your TP set, you still get 10 STP from your cape.
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 Asura.Melliny
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By Asura.Melliny 2024-04-03 10:47:30  
I would argue that quad attack is bad on thief. A quad attack is only one more swing than a triple attack. Meanwhile, we're sporting tp sets that not only have somewhere in the range of 50-60% triple attack, but also triple attack damage + gear. Our JSE neck, cape, and relic feet boost triple attack damage by a total of 36% if you wear all three, and that applies to all three swings of a triple attack proc. There's so little quad attack gear available to thief worth considering it's better to just go all in on the triple attack synergies.
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-04-03 10:55:31  
Asura.Melliny said: »
I would argue that quad attack is bad on thief. A quad attack is only one more swing than a triple attack. Meanwhile, we're sporting tp sets that not only have somewhere in the range of 50-60% triple attack, but also triple attack damage + gear. Our JSE neck, cape, and relic feet boost triple attack damage by a total of 36% if you wear all three, and that applies to all three swings of a triple attack proc. There's so little quad attack gear available to thief worth considering it's better to just go all in on the triple attack synergies.

I get where you're going with this (also JP give 20 bonus attack), but I think the extra ~150 TP you get from the extra hit will give more WSD than the 500 bonus white damage you get from the triple attack, TBH.

It is, as we both agree, pretty much a moot point since there's essentially 0 QA gear worth even discussing (Windbuffet, Crep Knife, Balder, Dampening Tam, end of list?) so it's kind of pointless to discuss. I wouldn't say QA is a net-negative and if I could get some without sacrificing anything, I'd definitely take it without batting an eye at the loss of white damage.

-Windbuffet is difficult to work in, lots of other similar/better belts
-Crep knife is rarely useful
-Balder is terrible since Sortie earrings exist now
-Dampening will get you killed
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