[Archive] Bushido - The Way Of The Samurai (A Guide)

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[Archive] Bushido - The Way of The Samurai (A Guide)
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 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-12-07 22:09:59  
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
Is Namas still stronger than Fudo even with AM2-3? I had pretty respectable damage on Fudo during the slashing phase of Daku. It fell a bit short compared to Namas but I feel like with AM2-3 it might make it just as good, if not better due to increased TP rate

Namas is always stronger than Fudo in extreme attack situations. What makes Koga better on neutral mobs is the enhanced WS frequency. In a standard Delve situation, Koga is about 13% better than Tsu/Yoichi on neutral mobs, but this assumes perfect overwhelm and AM3 maintenance. Tsu/Yoichi are certainly the easier combo to use, but Koga has higher potential. Switching between both depending on NM is obviously going to lead to the best results.
 Bismarck.Keityan
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2013-12-07 22:36:55  
Namas also has an innate +100 r.acc not including aftermath or the extra +skill it has over spelgan. Only reason I asked was because before all of those updates, I was completely floored accuracy (in a bad way).
 Remora.Brain
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By Remora.Brain 2013-12-08 00:07:15  
Doesn't Namas erase Mythic AM3? If so why would you even compare Koga/Yoichi and Tsuru/Yoichi?

That said, I can't wait till more content comes out outside of Adoulin so this Amano I made will see more use after I 119 it.
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-12-08 00:18:09  
The comparison was AM3 Koga using Fudo vs. Tsu/Yoichi using Namas.
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2013-12-08 02:05:38  
Yeah, it was just seeing if it was worth it to keep Koga on for the first 50% (or middle 50% for shark) to avoid having to go back down to 0% for the piercing weak/slashing strong phases of daku/toj
 Carbuncle.Nitecon
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By Carbuncle.Nitecon 2013-12-08 06:19:54  
I'm due to do my first Bee run after 119ing my Yoichi. When I was using Spelogen I was eating sushi, what food are Tsuru/Yoichi SAMs using now? I will probably get Prelude for Bee as we have a non Yoichi SAM in the setup.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-12-08 10:35:08  
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Fenrir.Ramzus said: »
Is Namas still stronger than Fudo even with AM2-3? I had pretty respectable damage on Fudo during the slashing phase of Daku. It fell a bit short compared to Namas but I feel like with AM2-3 it might make it just as good, if not better due to increased TP rate

Namas is always stronger than Fudo in extreme attack situations. What makes Koga better on neutral mobs is the enhanced WS frequency. In a standard Delve situation, Koga is about 13% better than Tsu/Yoichi on neutral mobs, but this assumes perfect overwhelm and AM3 maintenance. Tsu/Yoichi are certainly the easier combo to use, but Koga has higher potential. Switching between both depending on NM is obviously going to lead to the best results.

It would depend a lot on expertise as well. The ceiling for swapping weapons at different stages is definitely higher, but making a bad swap, failing to restart AM3 or swapping early/late will bring you down a lot faster than the spreadsheet leads on. Most players probably don't have the finesse to make full use of that kind of setup.
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By Remora.Brain 2013-12-08 13:05:15  
Out of curiosity, how would Amano/Yoichi stack up with Koga in that situation? It requires no particular timing since AM on Amano is a joke, and comes with decent white damage and a better WS in situations where TP isn't too badly overflowed.

I wish there was a way to account for TP overflow because in high buff situations with a 5hit Tsuru build it's a big problem, and that's the slowest TP setup.

In terms of TP gain/WS rate:
Koga AM3 > Tsuru Ionis 4 hit > Amano 5 hit > Tsuru 5 hit.


The question is, if TP rate is so ridiculous that it's hard to keep up with the low end setup, how bad will it be with a high end 4 hit or Koga?
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2013-12-08 13:19:24  
I usually don't have any tp overflow issues when autoWSing with autoexec. Could try that if player error is causing too much overflow.
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2013-12-08 13:25:53  
Carbuncle.Nitecon said: »
I'm due to do my first Bee run after 119ing my Yoichi. When I was using Spelogen I was eating sushi, what food are Tsuru/Yoichi SAMs using now? I will probably get Prelude for Bee as we have a non Yoichi SAM in the setup.

I had capped acc using RCB with 1 prelude an hunters roll, and my archery is 30 below cap. If you're using 2 SAMs I'd recommend throwing them in the same pt and getting misers + sam roll ontop of chaos/hunter, 3-hit is just absolutely insane with bow.
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-12-08 16:09:51  
Odin.Jassik said: »
It would depend a lot on expertise as well. The ceiling for swapping weapons at different stages is definitely higher, but making a bad swap, failing to restart AM3 or swapping early/late will bring you down a lot faster than the spreadsheet leads on. Most players probably don't have the finesse to make full use of that kind of setup.

By no means did I mean having a mythic would instantly propel a player to the top. People are in for a very rude awakening if that's what they think their mythic will do. Using a Mythic is an art in itself. It takes time, effort and a considerable amount of player experience to master. But once you reach that sweet spot and are able to differentiate between the situations where it excels most, it's highly rewarding.

Just some examples of the micro thoughts that mythics owners should always try to be aware of:

›Is there going to be any mobs to build TP on between NMs(very advantageous to mythic if there is)
›When AM3 is wearing and if it's worth it to reapply or save for next NM. Building 300% TP w/o AM3 can be devastating in certain situations.(Any fight that lasts <3min is advantageous to mythic)
›Tactical use to JA to attain AM3 in as little time as possible.(DRG and SAM are kings in this department)
›If it's clear AM3 is not realistic to maintain, having the foresight to use a different weapon in advance.
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-12-12 08:42:44  
That new Eminent Lance could see a return of Polearm SAM for piercing weak zones / boss's. Getting 7000 sparks to get the iLevel 117 Polearm is piss easy and would be a beast in a place like Ceizek or during Shark / Tojil piercing phase. DMG 239 Skill +215 Delay 492 polearm is amazing.
 Remora.Brain
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By Remora.Brain 2013-12-12 09:22:43  
A lot of SAM's gear has changed.

The new AF added a lot to my to-do list.

The new Polearm is pretty boss. I'm skilling it up now, but idk how well it would stack up for piercing weak mobs if you have ilvl Yoichi. I guess it could be better for the TP phase on piercing weak mobs than a GK if you don't need the ACC. It's got a very manageable 4 hit.

I think the latent is like the ENM Blau Dolch and IS Perdu type weapons, so they take a damage hit when TP goes over 100.
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By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2013-12-12 09:24:01  
I'm having fun Sonic Thrusting things for RoE. :3
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-12-12 09:34:05  
Remora.Brain said: »
A lot of SAM's gear has changed.

The new AF added a lot to my to-do list.

The new Polearm is pretty boss. I'm skilling it up now, but idk how well it would stack up for piercing weak mobs if you have ilvl Yoichi. I guess it could be better for the TP phase on piercing weak mobs than a GK if you don't need the ACC. It's got a very manageable 4 hit.

I think the latent is like the ENM Blau Dolch and IS Perdu type weapons, so they take a damage hit when TP goes over 100.

iLevel 119 Yochi = 99 Relic cost + another 150M in Plutons.

Or... 7000 sparks from soloing things

Even if the Yochi is better, which it could very well be in that zone, the cost vs effort of the two is so insane as to be comic strip worthy. If someone wants a super bow then more power to em, I'll just take the elevator.
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By Remora.Brain 2013-12-12 09:40:24  
I didn't tell anyone to run out and buy a Yoichi, I was saying that for those of us with it, it may not be as useful.
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By itchi508 2013-12-12 09:53:14  
Anyone made the Wakid Kote +1 yet to test & find out if its activation or if it would just replace Unkai haidates allowing you to tp in different pants? I doubt tp in both would be optimal for dps unless the effect was greatly enhanced.
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By Remora.Brain 2013-12-12 10:13:49  
First we need to know what's activation only, if it needs to be worn full time, and it you can remove then then put them back on to get the benefit.

If the effects stack, and you can remove then replace them, you'll want to use both pieces unless capped on haste. If you are capped then the hands are the obvious choice, allowing you to swap to much better legs.
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By Carbuncle.Killkenny 2013-12-12 11:24:09  
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »

iLevel 119 Yochi = 99 Relic cost + another 150M in Plutons.

Or... 7000 sparks from soloing things

Even if the Yochi is better, which it could very well be in that zone, the cost vs effort of the two is so insane as to be comic strip worthy. If someone wants a super bow then more power to em, I'll just take the elevator.

This is a pretty stupid statement. Every single relic/mythic/emp falls under this umbrella.

Yoichi also has uses in high tier content also.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-12-12 11:59:08  
Carbuncle.Killkenny said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »

iLevel 119 Yochi = 99 Relic cost + another 150M in Plutons.

Or... 7000 sparks from soloing things

Even if the Yochi is better, which it could very well be in that zone, the cost vs effort of the two is so insane as to be comic strip worthy. If someone wants a super bow then more power to em, I'll just take the elevator.

This is a pretty stupid statement. Every single relic/mythic/emp falls under this umbrella.

Yoichi also has uses in high tier content also.

It think the point he's making is that using a 400M gil bow instead of a basically free polearm to exploit as weakness for a particular zone boss which may or may not be even remotely relevant after the next patch is a purposefully harder route in the name of maximum potential. Even moreso when the maximum isn't really needed. It's not Bee/Shark pre-iLVL and +skill where the absolute maximum was needed from every single person.
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2013-12-13 01:52:33  
Does wakido domaru +1 have any place in sam sets? Specifically koga, just got all the materials for a body upgrade and the choices are between SAM(koga), DRG(ryuno), and MNK.
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By Fenrir.Ramzus 2013-12-13 02:06:50  
i tried making a set geared around TA/QA and it pretty much came out as identical DPS compared to other proposed koga sets. might be useful for a high acc set for AAs, but i'd rather use mikinaak bp for more accuracy anywho.
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 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-12-13 02:42:42  
This is what I'm getting for AM3 up.

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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-12-13 08:49:42  
Remora.Brain said: »
I didn't tell anyone to run out and buy a Yoichi, I was saying that for those of us with it, it may not be as useful.

If someone already has it at 119 then sure why not, just the release of a viable insanely cheap 117 Polearm pretty makes it so anyone can deal piercing damage.
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-12-13 08:54:06  
For Mastop and Muumuu anyway, ranged damage appears to be its own category.
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By Carbuncle.Killkenny 2013-12-13 11:11:18  
Odin.Jassik said: »
It think the point he's making is that using a 400M gil bow instead of a basically free polearm to exploit as weakness for a particular zone boss which may or may not be even remotely relevant after the next patch is a purposefully harder route in the name of maximum potential. Even moreso when the maximum isn't really needed. It's not Bee/Shark pre-iLVL and +skill where the absolute maximum was needed from every single person.

Except thats an invalid point because thats not an accurate synopsis of when/where Yoichi is optimal.

The rest of your logic can be applied to almost every other relic/mythic/emp in the game. Plus min/maxing wasn't really necessary prior to ilvl +skill once all the mechanics had become common knowledge. Groups were killing 5NM+Bee with melee setups before that (i.e. not exploited the ranged category boost, which is seperate or additional to the piercing bonus).

I'm not suggesting Yoichi is worth 400M as thats completely subjective, I am contesting the notion that the ilvl 117 polearm is a substitute for it because its utility extends beyond piercing weakness.
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By Bismarck.Keityan 2013-12-13 11:12:03  
Angierus said: »
I thought stacking DA/TA gear was bad with Koga AM3 up because it takes away from the overall chance of proc.

No, DA TA gear never decreases the DPS of Koga. It's a very large misconception. I posted about it here:

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/33761/kogarasumaru#2434585

Also to reiterate Sylow's more elegant approach, Koga's AM gives an average attack round rally average of 1.8. Comparatively, DA has a rally average of 2.0. Thus, DA never reduces the DPS of Koga's aftermath.

Sylow said:
Given a finite set of positive real numbers, the average cannot be less than the smallest member of the set and cannot be greater than the largest.
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-12-13 21:13:28  
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
For Mastop and Muumuu anyway, ranged damage appears to be its own category.

Yeah I was looking at that too. Maybe both Polearm and Yochi at the same time. Melee hits get the bonus piercing damage and you got the option to switch between SD and AA based on which one is best. On Bee our 119 PLM DRG's typically beat everyone else on damage with AA SAM or Req BLU behind them. Piercing really owns that entire zone. Now every SAM should be able to take advantage of piercing damage phase on Tojil / Shark.
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