[Dev] Planned Adjustments And Enmity System Explanation

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[Dev] Planned Adjustments and Enmity System Explanation
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 Sylph.Organic
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By Sylph.Organic 2013-03-26 16:22:31  
It always comes back to how RDMs get s**t on...I love it. RDMs are the eternal target in SE's war against Oceania, Eastasia, and Eurasia
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 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-03-26 16:26:07  
Leviathan.Suljin said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
No No, I used tact processor a lot. I know what it does. I just wasn't sure it extended to shield bash recast.

Oh sorry! Missunderstood.

No proof, but I really would be shocked since I notice with processor on poppo uses TP sooner, flashes almost as soon as its ready, and same as vokes. I can't say for certain but I have faith it does work with bash. =D You thik we'll get any new cool attachments? I'm hoping we do

Not really much more we CAN get, other than TA or TH. I want a better melee frame to be honest. I want like a scythe arm, or a GK arm (have like the other arm holding it steady). The "melee" frame is more of a tank/melee and the sharpshot frame has it's moments, but you basically need the drum magazine for it to be effective, and that kills it's accuracy.
 Sylph.Organic
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By Sylph.Organic 2013-03-26 16:28:17  
Odin.Eikechi said: »
Leviathan.Suljin said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
No No, I used tact processor a lot. I know what it does. I just wasn't sure it extended to shield bash recast.

Oh sorry! Missunderstood.

No proof, but I really would be shocked since I notice with processor on poppo uses TP sooner, flashes almost as soon as its ready, and same as vokes. I can't say for certain but I have faith it does work with bash. =D You thik we'll get any new cool attachments? I'm hoping we do

Not really much more we CAN get, other than TA or TH. I want a better melee frame to be honest. I want like a scythe arm, or a GK arm (have like the other arm holding it steady). The "melee" frame is more of a tank/melee and the sharpshot frame has it's moments, but you basically need the drum magazine for it to be effective, and that kills it's accuracy.


I think all of these ideas sound cool, but didnt SE say fairly recently that they were not gonna add any new frames?

Which is super bogus imho
 Odin.Eikechi
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By Odin.Eikechi 2013-03-26 16:30:44  
I think they did, but I honestly couldn't find it, because I wouldn't even know at what time period to start looking lol.
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 Leviathan.Suljin
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By Leviathan.Suljin 2013-03-26 16:33:24  
I thought they were talking about adding attachments that would up the dmg of the melee frame, and I swear it was with "Weapon attachments" Or, again I could be crazy. TA/ and TH would be nice, esp TH since /thf is kinda useless for anything else on pup.
 Sylph.Organic
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By Sylph.Organic 2013-03-26 16:35:29  
Leviathan.Suljin said: »
I thought they were talking about adding attachments that would up the dmg of the melee frame, and I swear it was with "Weapon attachments" Or, again I could be crazy. TA/ and TH would be nice, esp TH since /thf is kinda useless for anything else on pup.


I haven't played PUP in ages, but I figured when they added the T2 attack and acc attachments those were gonna be it for straight buffs...but as I was saying earlier, with the new attack / defense ratios....better get to loving those Earth Maneuvers
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-03-26 17:19:53  
Odin.Eikechi said: »
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
Diabolos.Raelia said: »
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
The flashy shot thing doesn't make sense. Didn't they say they weren't removing level correction for players --> monsters?
No, they've just pointed out that all mobs in SoA are gonna be level 99 with special resistances instead of level 120 shenanigans to force difficulty, hence why Flashy Shot might be irrelevant in all of the new content.

Did I miss this post?

I thought they just simply stated all the mobs won't have level correction. Though I guess that can be inferred as no level correction = they are all 99?

They said they wouldn't have level correction, but they never said they'd all be level 99 or below. They also said that player --> monster level correction will still apply, so I really don't see it being that they're all 99, but it's possible that something was mistranslated.
 Odin.Tsuneo
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By Odin.Tsuneo 2013-03-26 20:23:58  
In regards to the Scavenge update, I wonder if we'll only scavenge one piece of ammo at a time, or if there will be a possibly to scavenge multiple pieces of ammo.
 Bismarck.Helel
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By Bismarck.Helel 2013-03-26 20:26:32  
Asura.Yomisha said: »
Bismarck.Helel said: »
Sweet jesus, finally. Recycle adjustments can't come soon enough. I love the scavenge idea also, but it'll probably be more dogbolts or some crap.
Quote:
Specifically, we will be making it an ability where you can recover ammo that has been consumed.

They would have to really *** that up for it to be dogbolts. <.<;

Yeah, I agree, but it's not like they are just going to allow you scavenge non-stop overnight and refill all your adaman bullets... There will have to be some limitation. I 'could' be wrong, which would be awesome if bullets really did cost 0 gil, but I doubt it, and they would probably have to nerf RNG (again) if that were the case.
 Ragnarok.Taereon
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By Ragnarok.Taereon 2013-03-27 10:26:25  
Sylph.Organic said: »
Ragnarok.Taereon said: »
Give COR a recycle roll.


Honestly though, when would you use it? If you have a party of RNGs and/or CORs, you'd prob still use Chaos and Hunters for low acc situations or Chaos and Coursers for high acc situations.

I feel like a Recycle Roll would be about as useful as Choral Roll

I was thinking a roll that would conserve ammo, tools, and cards. If we're getting 3 rolls still I'd use it. And if a party ever has more than one cor a recycle roll wouldn't be a bad idea.
 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-04-03 14:25:05  
04-03-2013 12:20 PM
[source]
Camate
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Greetings everyone!

Thanks for all the feedback on enmity. Just as Producer Matsui has mentioned, we will be performing on-going adjustments to the enmity system and will start by working on laying the groundwork and the essential features.

Once the groundwork has been properly established, we’ll be working on the slightly smaller aspects and after that focus on the minute portions.

This should give you an idea of the progression we have mapped out, but let me shift into a slightly more detailed explanation.

Based on the feedback we have been seeing on the forums, for our next step we will be making adjustments to the static enmity generated from some job abilities and spells around the end of this month. (This is of course pending that there are no major issues along the way.)

With the adjustments we will be reducing the enmity generated by approximately half of the current value.

Additionally, we will be increasing the amount of enmity generated by the white magic spells Reprisal and Foil.

We will let you know the details on which job abilities and spells will be adjusted to have less enmity generation in the coming days, but I wanted to inform you of what we have planned ahead of time.
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 Cerberus.Quintow
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By Cerberus.Quintow 2013-04-03 14:27:16  
I didn't know Reprisal had any enmity
 Asura.Luminiferous
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By Asura.Luminiferous 2013-04-03 14:31:06  
It probably didn't before, either that or it was set very low. But since these are specific to PLD and RUN, they most likely will become staple spells for enmity generation on those jobs.
 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-04-03 14:32:31  
Cerberus.Quintow said: »
I didn't know Reprisal had any enmity
SpellCEVELevelMPCasting
(sec)
Reprisal18061240.50
 Phoenix.Raistlinmaj
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By Phoenix.Raistlinmaj 2013-04-03 20:42:32  
This thread has been a good read, especially the impromptu Boehemian Rhapsodie! I was lmao....ty.
 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-04-15 12:52:24  
04-15-2013 11:00 AM
[BG source]
Slycer
BG Translator

Looks like this covers almost every fixed-type spell. Notably, a lot of AoE spells are excluded (e.g. Sleepga, Barspellra, etc.), and I also noticed some random exclusions like Baramnesia. I'm sure there are other exclusions as well, maybe comment about them on Discussion thread. As far as JAs, looks like they just tackled a couple, mainly for RNG/BST, but also notably Benediction (somewhat surprising to me as the WHM Relic+2 body already has an Enmity-50 augment for Benediction).

-----

Mocchi: Enmity Adjustments for Spells/Abilities

This is a follow-up report.

In the next version update, as a next step to the enmity adjustments, we will be adjusting some spells and job abilities that are classified with fixed-type enmity increase.

Most affected spells and abilities will be adjusted to yield approximately half of the enmity that they currently receive.

However, Foil and Reprisal will both see increases to the amount of enmity yielded.

For the abilities and spells below, we will lower the amount of enmity yielded:

  • Job Abilities
    Benediction / Shadowbind / Sharpshot / Barrage / Heel / Leave / Sic / Stay / Reward / Deactivate

  • White Magic
    Raise / Raise II / Raise III / Arise / Poisona / Blindna / Silena / Stona / Viruna / Cursna / Blink / Stoneskin / Aquaveil / Slow / Slow II / Haste / Paralyze / Paralyze II / Silence / Barfire / Barblizzard / Baraero / Barstone / Barthunder / Barwater / Barsleep / Barpoison / Barparalyze / Barblind / Barsilence / Barpetrify / Barvirus / Sacrifice / Esuna / Auspice / Repose / Erase / Addle / Temper / Embrava / Enfire / Enfire II / Enblizzard / Enblizzard II / Enaero / Enaero II / Enstone / Enstone II / Enthunder / Enthunder II / Enwater / Enwater II / Enlight / Phalanx / Phalanx II / Regen / Regen II / Regen III / Regen IV / Regen V / Refresh / Refresh II / Aurorastorm / Voidstorm / Firestorm / Hailstorm / Windstorm / Sandstorm / Thunderstorm / Rainstorm / Adloquium / Animus Augeo / Animus Minuo

  • Black Magic
    Poison / Poison II / Poisonga / Bio / Bio II / Bio III / Burn / Frost / Choke / Rasp / Shock / Drown / Retrace / Blaze Spikes / Ice Spikes / Shock Spikes / Sleep / Sleep II / Blind / Blind II / Break / Breakga / Bind / Dispel / Absorb-STR / Absorb-DEX / Absorb-VIT / Absorb-AGI / Absorb-INT / Absorb-MND / Absorb-CHR / Absorb-Acc / Absorb-Attri / Endark / Klimaform

  • Bard Songs
    Too lazy to translate all of these. It's basically everything.

  • Ninjutsu
    See above.

  • Geomancy
    Ditto.


Translated by: Slycer
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 Siren.Stunx
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By Siren.Stunx 2013-04-15 12:54:39  
nice been waiting for them to lower hate on raises.
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 Fenrir.Yuriki
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By Fenrir.Yuriki 2013-04-15 12:58:25  
Hmm, how about a job trait that increases spell enmity for PLD? PLD/RDM GO!
 Shiva.Kuraneko
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By Shiva.Kuraneko 2013-04-15 13:38:57  
Meh so they'll adjust ability hate on BST abilities (and Deactivate, I don't get this but I don't play PUP) and still no love for Blood Pact or other SMN job abilities.
 Asura.Chexmix
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By Asura.Chexmix 2013-04-15 13:49:57  
Isnt the enm on sleep/bind etc already low as hell when they did it to kill rdm tanking?
 Fenrir.Slycer
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By Fenrir.Slycer 2013-04-15 13:59:11  
Someone pointed out on BG earlier - I was getting lazy with basically translating full spell lists so I glossed over the fact that all summoning magic spells (the act of summoning the avatar or spirit) are included in the enmity reduction.
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 Cerberus.Diabolique
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By Cerberus.Diabolique 2013-04-15 14:03:10  
Retrace seems like the oddest thing on that list. Who was using that as a hate tool(or at all during a fight?).

Ninjutsu probably could have been left alone, seems like a weird choice compared to the other magic types.
Just noticed deactivate, but no retrieve or deploy(or maneuvers).
 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2013-04-19 14:09:12  
04-17-2013 01:38 PM
[source]
Camate
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Hello,

Thanks for the feedback thus far since my previous post.

We've seen a couple of questions, so I would like to provide some responses.

What about enmity changes for Dia and Helix spells?

  • Dia
    While this is a spell that has a static amount of enmity, the amount of enmity generated is extremely low, so we removed it from the scope of our adjustments.

  • Helix spells
    The enmity for these spells depends on the effect, so it was removed from the scope of our adjustments.

    Similar to elemental magic, the enmity generated is proportionate to the damage dealt.


Siven said: »
Uhh, what about summoner job abilities…?

Blood Pacts, Retreat, and Release do not generate enmity, and as such were not included in the list.

Also, while on the subject of pet jobs, below are some notes about beastmaster's job abilities that were not included on the list:

  • Ready
    This ability does not generate enmity.

  • Spur/Run Wild
    While these abilities have a static amount of enmity generation, they are time volatile, and because the amount is lost every second it was removed from the scope of our adjustments.


Nebo said: »
Why would you reduce enmity values on NIN spells?

With ninja itself in mind, we understand that it would be best to increase the enmity for ninjutsu.
With that said, we will be going a separate route of adjustment so that ninjas can control enmity better.

However, we've included ninjutsu in the scope of our adjustments due to the fact that red mages who use ninja as their support job could cause the same issues from the past to arise.

Tennotsukai said: »
blue mages forgotten?

We will not be adjusting enmity on blue magic because we feel that blue mage is a job that can better withstand a beating in the event that they pull hate from the target.

Babekeke said: »
If Barspells are generating too much enmity... surely the WHM AOE versions should also receive an enmity decrease?

The AoE Bar- spells were removed from the scope of our adjustments due to the fact that the amount of enmity is very low. While the enmity depends on the amount of party members, the effect duration is quite long and is normally cast before battle, and if you need to it cast during battle, it's something you can use when Provoke and other front-line job enmity generation methods are being used.
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04-18-2013 12:52 PM
[source]
Camate
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Greetings,

The information mentioned yesterday about summoner's abilities and Blood Pacts not creating hate seems to have raised some questions, so I'd like to follow up on it.

To be precise, Blood Pacts have a non-volatile enmity value of 1. It's been arranged this way so that some enmity remains on the summoner when having a pet perform an action against a monster. If we were to make it so enmity was not placed on the summoner, once the enmity from the avatar is gone, it would cause bugs to occur (such as monsters becoming unclaimed). It's very similar to the way linked monsters don't come after the summoner once the avatar has vanished (except it would happen to the monster you perform the Blood Pact on).

In the case that the avatar's enmity has a minimum value of 1 for both non-volatile and volatile enmity, when executing a Blood Pact, the summoner will receive +1 to their non-volatile enmity, making a total of 2 non-volatile and 1 volatile enmity. When this happens, the target will go after the summoner.

As an adjustment, we are looking into the below:

  • When the summoner has enmity, they will not receive +1 to non-volatile enmity when executing a Blood Pact. (The +1 to non-volatile enmity will only occur when the summoner's enmity value is 0.)


The above adjustment is not a job ability adjustment; it will be a change to the process occurring in the programming, so please give us a bit of time for this.

We had looked into taking another approach by adding an enmity+ stat to avatars like beastmaster's familiars have, and to ease up on the enmity lost when taking damage; however, this was geared more towards solo play and there are times when it would be best for avatars not to take hate during party battles, so we decided to adopt the adjustment mentioned above.
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Other news that I haven't posted from being gone:
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 Cerberus.Kvazz
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2013-04-19 14:15:43  
Quote:
However, we've included ninjutsu in the scope of our adjustments due to the fact that red mages who use ninja as their support job could cause the same issues from the past to arise.
The _ISSUES_?
SE used RDM tank in the AV video.
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By Quiznor 2013-04-19 14:17:52  
All those RDM/NINs *** it up for NIN now

wait......
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 Carbuncle.Skulloneix
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By Carbuncle.Skulloneix 2013-04-19 14:21:46  
Siren.Kalilla said: »
However, we've included ninjutsu in the scope of our adjustments due to the fact that red mages who use ninja as their support job could cause the same issues from the past to arise.
Wait...wut????

THANK GOD IM NOT ONLY ONE SAW THAT RDM/NIN CRAP. -_-
 Bismarck.Helel
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By Bismarck.Helel 2013-04-19 14:25:17  
Cerberus.Diabolique said: »
Retrace seems like the oddest thing on that list. Who was using that as a hate tool(or at all during a fight?).

Ninjutsu probably could have been left alone, seems like a weird choice compared to the other magic types.
Just noticed deactivate, but no retrieve or deploy(or maneuvers).

You obviously haven't experienced the effectiveness of retrace rotations for maximum tanking efficiency.
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By Drjones 2013-04-19 14:26:38  
They put Red Mage in a hole and buried it, but they're still worried it might do something other than sit there being useless.
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By Quiznor 2013-04-19 14:27:27  
Drjones said: »
They put Red Mage in a hole and buried it, but they're still worried it might do something other than sit there being useless.

No time for RDM love,dr jones!
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By Drjones 2013-04-19 14:32:25  
There's never time for RDM love.

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