Overall Battle System Adjustments For The Future
Overall Battle System Adjustments for the Future
I can't wait to see how SE has their Enmity values\formula compared to how Kaeko set it up.
Fenrir.Weakness said: »
All I could gather from that post is that apparently JPs don't like Twilight Scythe?
<.<; That's... weird.
<.<; That's... weird.
They picked the worst job to even give something like a Twilight scythe to. It should have been Twilight Sword.
bumping since it got paged~
Siren.Kalilla said: »
01-25-2013 10:29 AM
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| Translations. Probably the most interesting thing here is the feedback from Matsui about upcoming info about enmity and changes to the system. I find the apparent hatred for Twilight Scythe to also be interesting, though, as I've never really seen that on the English-speaking side. [Quoted post about defense adjustment]
That's it. [Quoted post about adjusting the enmity cap so that PLD is actually useful, etc.] With respect to enmity, we will also make adjustments. For further discussion as far as how we will change this, I gave Matsui an opportunity to explain. From Matsui: "We will also disclose the current formula, so please give me a little more time to put together my response." We'll trust that he will stick to his comment, so please excuse the lack of information in this post. [Quoted post saying that the defense adjustments are not only going to potentially hurt back line jobs like yesterday's post said, but also front line jobs with lightweight equipment such as THF and NIN.] Regarding jobs with lightweight equipment Since there was a concern raised about this, I'd like give a response to this point. The defense of lightweight and heavy equipment are not exactly the same; however, we plan to raise the defense ratings of both types of gear [not clear whether he's referring to past gear or just future gear; likely just future]. We do not want to create a situation where you are afraid to fight. As examples mentioned in posts by others, we would like to introduce a little mode Damage Taken-% type equipment and increase the evasiveness of these jobs by various means. [Quoted post saying that raising the attack/defense cap on 1H weapons to match 2H is not the kind of change they should be making and is too simple of a response. He's saying that right now 2H weapons are both more accurate and more powerful than 1H, and a good, sensible resolution to this would be to leave it so that 2H weapons are more powerful but make 1H weapons are more accurate than 2H.] Regarding the change to raise the attack/defense ratio cap on 1H weapons to match the 2.25 cap on 2H weapons, please let me first point out that this is just a proposal and is certainly not the only idea that we have. As with what you're proposing, we'd like to go in a direction that gives a unique characterization to each weapon type, and we will consider these adjustments in stages. [Ton of posts about non-attribute damage weapons and how they function against monsters with shields up.] Thank you for your feedback about non-attribute damage weapons. Regarding Twilight Scythe, let me briefly summarize the kinds of feedback we've noticed so far:
Regarding the jobs that can equip it, this will not be part of the resolution. For the other possible resolutions (or if you're in favor of leaving it as is), please give us your opinions once again. The final response won't be determined solely by the opinions of those that are expressed here, and we want to work carefully to make sure that any adjustment is done properly. Thanks for your feedback! Translated by: Slycer | ||||
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Phoenix.Wackatramp said: »
Fenrir.Weakness said: »
All I could gather from that post is that apparently JPs don't like Twilight Scythe?
<.<; That's... weird.
<.<; That's... weird.
They picked the worst job to even give something like a Twilight scythe to. It should have been Twilight Sword.
Could you explain? And why muramasemaru on SAM then?
Stunned DRKs are stunned. They have way too many toys to already play with. It's hard/rare to find a DRK to drop an Emp/Relic to take off shields, etc. Something like Twilight Sword would have been more versatile.
WAR has Tomahawk to somewhat help with the same thing that Twilight scythe does.
Sword gets a WS that works the same way now.
SAM got a gkt that has the same effect for weaponskills.
I think it's pretty OK as it is now tbh <_>
Sword gets a WS that works the same way now.
SAM got a gkt that has the same effect for weaponskills.
I think it's pretty OK as it is now tbh <_>
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Cerberus.Kvazz said: »
WAR has Tomahawk to somewhat help with the same thing that Twilight scythe does.
Sword gets a WS that works the same way now.
SAM got a gkt that has the same effect for weaponskills.
I think it's pretty OK as it is now tbh <_>
Sword gets a WS that works the same way now.
SAM got a gkt that has the same effect for weaponskills.
I think it's pretty OK as it is now tbh <_>
Those are all very different than Twilight Scythe though. Those eliminate special defense or bypass physical resi (requi and GK), Twilight to my knowledge bypasses all dt- on the melee swings, doesn't it?
Pretty sure they work the same way, just Req and GK are WS only while Twilight scythe is normal hits only?
Tomahawk is a bit different, but atleast it works for everybody hitting the mob no matter which weapon they use.
Edit:
Req: Deals property-less damage (not Magic or Physical), but uses regular physical damage equations.
GKT: Changes the damage type of Weapon Skills to be non-elemental damage.
Twilight: Melee attacks from this weapon are not considered physical or magical damage, and thus are not affected by physical or magical damage immunity.
Edit2:
I'll throw in Tomahawk aswell:
If enemy has a physical resistance to a certain type of damage this ability will reduce it by 25% (from 50% to 37%, 25% to 18%, etc.).
This includes reducing 100% weapon immunities such as Invincible or on enemies such as Jailer of Temperance and ones in Apollyon SE to 75% resistance.
This also includes resistances to magic damage, so Jailer of Temperance can be nuked while Tomahawk is active.
Tomahawk is a bit different, but atleast it works for everybody hitting the mob no matter which weapon they use.
Edit:
Req: Deals property-less damage (not Magic or Physical), but uses regular physical damage equations.
GKT: Changes the damage type of Weapon Skills to be non-elemental damage.
Twilight: Melee attacks from this weapon are not considered physical or magical damage, and thus are not affected by physical or magical damage immunity.
Edit2:
I'll throw in Tomahawk aswell:
If enemy has a physical resistance to a certain type of damage this ability will reduce it by 25% (from 50% to 37%, 25% to 18%, etc.).
This includes reducing 100% weapon immunities such as Invincible or on enemies such as Jailer of Temperance and ones in Apollyon SE to 75% resistance.
This also includes resistances to magic damage, so Jailer of Temperance can be nuked while Tomahawk is active.
[+]
In all the VW I've done:
Never seen a Mura
Have never seen a WAR Tomahawk
Seen the odd BLU Req., but mainly just to SC off itself
Rarely see DRKs Twilight.
Maybe it's just Phoenix, not sure. Even if they did add jobs to the Scythe (WAR/BLM/BST), WAR probably won't drop the Ukon/Relic, and lol at BST and BLM.
I guess just hope you have a good Req. merited and good QD COR or hope to get lucky on procs.
Never seen a Mura
Have never seen a WAR Tomahawk
Seen the odd BLU Req., but mainly just to SC off itself
Rarely see DRKs Twilight.
Maybe it's just Phoenix, not sure. Even if they did add jobs to the Scythe (WAR/BLM/BST), WAR probably won't drop the Ukon/Relic, and lol at BST and BLM.
I guess just hope you have a good Req. merited and good QD COR or hope to get lucky on procs.
Who actually complains about stuff like this? So dumb.
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Phoenix.Wackatramp said: »
In all the VW I've done:
Never seen a Mura
Have never seen a WAR Tomahawk
Seen the odd BLU Req., but mainly just to SC off itself
Rarely see DRKs Twilight.
Maybe it's just Phoenix, not sure. Even if they did add jobs to the Scythe (WAR/BLM/BST), WAR probably won't drop the Ukon/Relic, and lol at BST and BLM.
I guess just hope you have a good Req. merited and good QD COR or hope to get lucky on procs.
Never seen a Mura
Have never seen a WAR Tomahawk
Seen the odd BLU Req., but mainly just to SC off itself
Rarely see DRKs Twilight.
Maybe it's just Phoenix, not sure. Even if they did add jobs to the Scythe (WAR/BLM/BST), WAR probably won't drop the Ukon/Relic, and lol at BST and BLM.
I guess just hope you have a good Req. merited and good QD COR or hope to get lucky on procs.
Mura is extremely rare to drop.
I've seen a lot of resquiescat PLD like 12 months ago on Pil.
DRK use T. scythe on caturae in provenance (well I do when I don't forget it in storage). In Salvage v2 T.scythe is useful too.
Cerberus.Detzu said: »
Phoenix.Wackatramp said: »
In all the VW I've done: Never seen a Mura Have never seen a WAR Tomahawk Seen the odd BLU Req., but mainly just to SC off itself Rarely see DRKs Twilight. Maybe it's just Phoenix, not sure. Even if they did add jobs to the Scythe (WAR/BLM/BST), WAR probably won't drop the Ukon/Relic, and lol at BST and BLM. I guess just hope you have a good Req. merited and good QD COR or hope to get lucky on procs.
Leviathan.Draylo said: »
Who actually complains about stuff like this? So dumb.
I can't believe SE made mousse and not moose! ***' c'mon SE.
Cerberus.Kvazz said: »
Pretty sure they work the same way, just Req and GK are WS only while Twilight scythe is normal hits only?
Tomahawk is a bit different, but atleast it works for everybody hitting the mob no matter which weapon they use.
Edit:
Req: Deals property-less damage (not Magic or Physical), but uses regular physical damage equations.
GKT: Changes the damage type of Weapon Skills to be non-elemental damage.
Twilight: Melee attacks from this weapon are not considered physical or magical damage, and thus are not affected by physical or magical damage immunity.
Edit2:
I'll throw in Tomahawk aswell:
If enemy has a physical resistance to a certain type of damage this ability will reduce it by 25% (from 50% to 37%, 25% to 18%, etc.).
This includes reducing 100% weapon immunities such as Invincible or on enemies such as Jailer of Temperance and ones in Apollyon SE to 75% resistance.
This also includes resistances to magic damage, so Jailer of Temperance can be nuked while Tomahawk is active.
Tomahawk is a bit different, but atleast it works for everybody hitting the mob no matter which weapon they use.
Edit:
Req: Deals property-less damage (not Magic or Physical), but uses regular physical damage equations.
GKT: Changes the damage type of Weapon Skills to be non-elemental damage.
Twilight: Melee attacks from this weapon are not considered physical or magical damage, and thus are not affected by physical or magical damage immunity.
Edit2:
I'll throw in Tomahawk aswell:
If enemy has a physical resistance to a certain type of damage this ability will reduce it by 25% (from 50% to 37%, 25% to 18%, etc.).
This includes reducing 100% weapon immunities such as Invincible or on enemies such as Jailer of Temperance and ones in Apollyon SE to 75% resistance.
This also includes resistances to magic damage, so Jailer of Temperance can be nuked while Tomahawk is active.
I think GK and Requi are still affected by mdt- traits though no? I thought it was non-elemental magic damage? I could be wrong, I'm legit asking. I thought magic immune mobs took 0 from requi and GK WS.
Odin.Eikechi said: »
Cerberus.Kvazz said: »
Pretty sure they work the same way, just Req and GK are WS only while Twilight scythe is normal hits only?
Tomahawk is a bit different, but atleast it works for everybody hitting the mob no matter which weapon they use.
Edit:
Req: Deals property-less damage (not Magic or Physical), but uses regular physical damage equations.
GKT: Changes the damage type of Weapon Skills to be non-elemental damage.
Twilight: Melee attacks from this weapon are not considered physical or magical damage, and thus are not affected by physical or magical damage immunity.
Edit2:
I'll throw in Tomahawk aswell:
If enemy has a physical resistance to a certain type of damage this ability will reduce it by 25% (from 50% to 37%, 25% to 18%, etc.).
This includes reducing 100% weapon immunities such as Invincible or on enemies such as Jailer of Temperance and ones in Apollyon SE to 75% resistance.
This also includes resistances to magic damage, so Jailer of Temperance can be nuked while Tomahawk is active.
Tomahawk is a bit different, but atleast it works for everybody hitting the mob no matter which weapon they use.
Edit:
Req: Deals property-less damage (not Magic or Physical), but uses regular physical damage equations.
GKT: Changes the damage type of Weapon Skills to be non-elemental damage.
Twilight: Melee attacks from this weapon are not considered physical or magical damage, and thus are not affected by physical or magical damage immunity.
Edit2:
I'll throw in Tomahawk aswell:
If enemy has a physical resistance to a certain type of damage this ability will reduce it by 25% (from 50% to 37%, 25% to 18%, etc.).
This includes reducing 100% weapon immunities such as Invincible or on enemies such as Jailer of Temperance and ones in Apollyon SE to 75% resistance.
This also includes resistances to magic damage, so Jailer of Temperance can be nuked while Tomahawk is active.
I think GK and Requi are still affected by mdt- traits though no? I thought it was non-elemental magic damage? I could be wrong, I'm legit asking. I thought magic immune mobs took 0 from requi and GK WS.
Well, if stuff is magic immune and not physical immune, why would you use those in the first place?
I don't know if that's the case or not though, but it would'nt really have any practical disadvantage if it's the case anyways, as you'd use another weapon\ws :P
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Odin.Eikechi said: »
Cerberus.Kvazz said: »
Pretty sure they work the same way, just Req and GK are WS only while Twilight scythe is normal hits only?
Tomahawk is a bit different, but atleast it works for everybody hitting the mob no matter which weapon they use.
Edit:
Req: Deals property-less damage (not Magic or Physical), but uses regular physical damage equations.
GKT: Changes the damage type of Weapon Skills to be non-elemental damage.
Twilight: Melee attacks from this weapon are not considered physical or magical damage, and thus are not affected by physical or magical damage immunity.
Edit2:
I'll throw in Tomahawk aswell:
If enemy has a physical resistance to a certain type of damage this ability will reduce it by 25% (from 50% to 37%, 25% to 18%, etc.).
This includes reducing 100% weapon immunities such as Invincible or on enemies such as Jailer of Temperance and ones in Apollyon SE to 75% resistance.
This also includes resistances to magic damage, so Jailer of Temperance can be nuked while Tomahawk is active.
Tomahawk is a bit different, but atleast it works for everybody hitting the mob no matter which weapon they use.
Edit:
Req: Deals property-less damage (not Magic or Physical), but uses regular physical damage equations.
GKT: Changes the damage type of Weapon Skills to be non-elemental damage.
Twilight: Melee attacks from this weapon are not considered physical or magical damage, and thus are not affected by physical or magical damage immunity.
Edit2:
I'll throw in Tomahawk aswell:
If enemy has a physical resistance to a certain type of damage this ability will reduce it by 25% (from 50% to 37%, 25% to 18%, etc.).
This includes reducing 100% weapon immunities such as Invincible or on enemies such as Jailer of Temperance and ones in Apollyon SE to 75% resistance.
This also includes resistances to magic damage, so Jailer of Temperance can be nuked while Tomahawk is active.
I think GK and Requi are still affected by mdt- traits though no? I thought it was non-elemental magic damage? I could be wrong, I'm legit asking. I thought magic immune mobs took 0 from requi and GK WS.
I am actually pretty sure that requiescat is the exact same damage type as twilight scythe which I have always personally regarded as physical non-weapon type non-elemental (the reason for this is that twilight scythe melee damage is always 1x mod even against slashing weak enemies with the exception of weapon skills which is why weapon skills with twilight do not bypass physical shield)). This is because it can actually miss where magic cant. Despite how people seem to still see it, twilight scythe does not ignore -damage taken.
Can't speak for the Great Katana as i've never used it myself but I would imagine it works the same way.
Slycer said:
Matsui on Job Disparity (Re: Twilight Scythe)
Hello!
Thank you for your posts regarding Twilight Scythe. We appreciate your opinions both in favor of and against the changes.
However, I also saw some intolerably written feedback which we had to put an end to. Such writing is extremely selfish and is not useful in determining why you are for or against the changes.
After re-examination of the comments we received and discussion with the development team, we have decided to adjust the performance on Twilight Scythe.
When comparing individual jobs, there is a certain amount of unevenness between the jobs, and this is a good thing (to have special features which distinguish the jobs from one another). This unevenness between jobs changes with the addition of new items, equipment, and job adjustments. Since the goal is to have the jobs be well compatible with the content, this leads me to a discussion about the disparity between jobs.
If the unevenness between jobs reaches a degree beyond what was intended, there are various methods we can employ to adjust.
For example:
Job Adjustments
Equipment/Items Adjustments
Content Adjustments
...and so on.
Dark Knight now has a high level of unevenness when compared with other jobs. We believe this is the case because many of you seem to share the same point of view. Therefore, we decided to review the performance of Twilight Scythe.
We will continue to study the weapon, but here are some proposals that we have come up with:
These are some routes we may take.
Regarding other weapons (and weapon skills) that are non-attribute, we have determined that the job unevenness created by them is at an acceptable level, and we have no plans to make adjustments at this time. Next, regarding elemental magic, we have decided to review the current adjustment plans. (From time to time, I will provide feedback on our adjustment plans).
Hello!
Thank you for your posts regarding Twilight Scythe. We appreciate your opinions both in favor of and against the changes.
However, I also saw some intolerably written feedback which we had to put an end to. Such writing is extremely selfish and is not useful in determining why you are for or against the changes.
After re-examination of the comments we received and discussion with the development team, we have decided to adjust the performance on Twilight Scythe.
When comparing individual jobs, there is a certain amount of unevenness between the jobs, and this is a good thing (to have special features which distinguish the jobs from one another). This unevenness between jobs changes with the addition of new items, equipment, and job adjustments. Since the goal is to have the jobs be well compatible with the content, this leads me to a discussion about the disparity between jobs.
If the unevenness between jobs reaches a degree beyond what was intended, there are various methods we can employ to adjust.
For example:
Job Adjustments
Equipment/Items Adjustments
Content Adjustments
...and so on.
Dark Knight now has a high level of unevenness when compared with other jobs. We believe this is the case because many of you seem to share the same point of view. Therefore, we decided to review the performance of Twilight Scythe.
We will continue to study the weapon, but here are some proposals that we have come up with:
With Twilight Scythe equipped, each attack will have a risk of consuming HP (overlapping with the effect of Souleater)
Grant the non-attribute performance as an additional effect which triggers less frequently
With HP below a certain amount, trigger with a fixed probability, with a higher probability (and increased risk) with a decreasing amount of HP.
These are some routes we may take.
Regarding other weapons (and weapon skills) that are non-attribute, we have determined that the job unevenness created by them is at an acceptable level, and we have no plans to make adjustments at this time. Next, regarding elemental magic, we have decided to review the current adjustment plans. (From time to time, I will provide feedback on our adjustment plans).
You already posted the official translation of this post òò
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
You already posted the official translation of this post òò
:x oops
So...since DRK is ...'uneven', they're going to do something to the Twilight scythe.
Okie dokie.
Okie dokie.
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Matsui said:
Matsui here.
I'm sorry I haven't been making much of an appearance on the forums lately.
Especially since I promised that we would be releasing information related to the enmity system and calculations, I realize I continue to make you all wait. I'm sorry to disappoint you all again and I'm sure there are some of you thinking "don't apologize, just tell us the essentials."
Unfortunately a lot of things came up suddenly which led to me becoming extremely busy this week and wasn't able to write anything up. I'm really sorry about this and I'd like to ask for just a bit more time to get you all the information you've been waiting for.
I'm sorry I haven't been making much of an appearance on the forums lately.
Especially since I promised that we would be releasing information related to the enmity system and calculations, I realize I continue to make you all wait. I'm sorry to disappoint you all again and I'm sure there are some of you thinking "don't apologize, just tell us the essentials."
Unfortunately a lot of things came up suddenly which led to me becoming extremely busy this week and wasn't able to write anything up. I'm really sorry about this and I'd like to ask for just a bit more time to get you all the information you've been waiting for.
Anyone else notice that he's been getting progressively melancholic over time?
[+]
If he reads the official forums as much as he implies he tries to, I'm sure there's a lot of people that can relate to the idea of the official forums melting your brains from stupid overload.
[+]
As someone who has made games for a living, he's probably working 80 hour weeks and crunching his *** off with the rest of the dev team to ship Aldouin on time.
The final stretch can take a serious toll on your mood and health, most people dont know how much game devs work themselves to death to get a game out the door during the final couple months.
The final stretch can take a serious toll on your mood and health, most people dont know how much game devs work themselves to death to get a game out the door during the final couple months.
[+]
yeah there's that too, but I don't think that's as horrifying as being forced to consider some of the official forum posts seriously as part of your job description
Every game is like that, official forums are like the last thing gamedevs in the trenches should be reading right before and after shipping a game.
Even if you get lots of praise from players you always remember the ungrateful/whiny forum posts. I have alot of respect for community reps that filter most of that crap and find the good nuggets of feedback for game teams.
Even if you get lots of praise from players you always remember the ungrateful/whiny forum posts. I have alot of respect for community reps that filter most of that crap and find the good nuggets of feedback for game teams.
[+]
I would like to see the WS merit system change to allow you to at least unlock each WS, then if you want you can fully merit it to max it out.
Personally, I'd like to be able to unlock and fully merit all of the WS merits. It's not like it would negatively affect any job. Each job only has access to a couple of the merited WS anyway, unlocking and fully meriting all of them wouldn't really ruin the game.
Personally, I'd like to be able to unlock and fully merit all of the WS merits. It's not like it would negatively affect any job. Each job only has access to a couple of the merited WS anyway, unlocking and fully meriting all of them wouldn't really ruin the game.
Leviathan.Wolfemasters said: »
I would like to see the WS merit system change to allow you to at least unlock each WS, then if you want you can fully merit it to max it out.
Personally, I'd like to be able to unlock and fully merit all of the WS merits. It's not like it would negatively affect any job. Each job only has access to a couple of the merited WS anyway, unlocking and fully meriting all of them wouldn't really ruin the game.
Personally, I'd like to be able to unlock and fully merit all of the WS merits. It's not like it would negatively affect any job. Each job only has access to a couple of the merited WS anyway, unlocking and fully meriting all of them wouldn't really ruin the game.
Well with 15 slots, you basically can now once the adjustment hits, no? 1/5 with adjustment is 2% weaker than current 4/5 so that's not SO bad. I know I'm going to break down requie to 1/5 and merit a few more WS as a result.
Leviathan.Wolfemasters said: »
Personally, I'd like to be able to unlock and fully merit all of the WS merits. It's not like it would negatively affect any job. Each job only has access to a couple of the merited WS anyway, unlocking and fully meriting all of them wouldn't really ruin the game.
Since they have plans to add NMs/HNMs "truely" weak to certain types of damage like piercing, slashing, blunt and etc, you can be 100% sure they won't do that.
Valentine said: »
Since they have plans to add NMs/HNMs "truely" weak to certain types of damage like piercing, slashing, blunt and etc, you can be 100% sure they won't do that.
Odin.Eikechi said: »
Well with 15 slots, you basically can now once the adjustment hits, no? 1/5 with adjustment is 2% weaker than current 4/5 so that's not SO bad. I know I'm going to break down requie to 1/5 and merit a few more WS as a result.
Quote:
Unfortunately a lot of things came up suddenly which led to me becoming extremely busy this week and wasn't able to write anything up. I'm really sorry about this and I'd like to ask for just a bit more time to get you all the information you've been waiting for.
Matsui is basically my intern
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