Now that the version update has been completed and the upper tier expansion of Salvage was introduced, I want to comment on the replies comparing this to past Salvage.
For the upper tier Salvage expansion, the goal was to allow players to clear as much as possible without the event being too shallow and without getting stuck.
With that assumption, the balance of the content was adjusted so that it can normally be cleared relatively quickly with about six players (and it seems that some people have already been able to clear with even fewer than six).
Some people who are especially experienced in the previous Salvage, however, may feel a little dissatisfied.
The event was designed with veteran players in mind as well, with the hope that if you continue to explore the various routes you can become more efficient and acquire more items along the same paths.
The routes were designed so that it is easy to aim for the goal of your choice; for example, by including areas where it is easy to collect Alexandrite. I think that as you investigate more thoroughly and discover these parts, you'll discover the purpose of these additional areas.
I’d like to comment a bit on the high-level Salvage content based on everyone’s feedback thus far since the version update took place. While it might not address the current topic of equipment rewards, I feel it gives a bit more insight into the content. However, we will be sure to pass along the equipment related feedback to the development team right away!
With the recent high-level Salvage expansion we wanted to make it possible so that players with less experience could aim to clear the content without getting stuck on certain aspects.
Based on this objective, we balanced the content in such a way so that a party of roughly 6 players can clear it, and made it possible so that with the right amount of battle power you would be able to clear it comparatively faster. (It seems like there are already quite a few players who have managed to clear the content with less than 6 party members. Good job! )
For those of you who are well versed with the original Salvage content, you might be feeling that this content is a bit easy.
As a method of fostering skillful play for our veteran players, we’ve set up the content so that special routes can be taken to obtain more items more efficiently and made it so you can feel your achievements even more from spending time and heavily challenging the same routes.
For example, depending on your objective – if you are selecting a route to go after the equipment that you want of if you are selecting a route that will yield a great deal of alexandrite – your battle strategy will change.
With that said, we’d love it if you can fervently seek out these elements and take on the challenge, and let us know what you think.
I spoke with the staff responsible for Salvage regarding future adjustment plans.
The result of our talk was that we plan to make adjustments to increase the drop rates for equipment obtained in the previous Salvage (Lv 35~).
Additionally, for Bhaflau Remnants (also known as "Bhafknock"*), in addition to the adjustment above, we're also planning to change it so that the equipment drops from monsters other than the original NMs.
Increased occurrences of NMs would affect the alexandrite yield (since cotton coinpurses drop in addition to the higher drop rate equipment), but we plan to make this adjustment in such a way that it will increase the chance for you to get the equipment that you're looking for.
{{*Apparently this is some JP nickname given to Bhaflau, assumedly because of the ramparts. I never heard it before so I'm just guessing on the translation, but that makes sense.}}
I always remember this 3 year old video they made when they announced the level cap of 99. Hitler nailed every single thing it happened to the game since then.
All of the refurbished gear from 75 were treated as such and received a honorary and even "special" treatment, mostly because the game took a giant leap once the cap was increased.
SE decided to leave room for old gear simply because people who had already been playing the game for years didn't want to give up so easily on stuff which occasionally even took years to complete due to bad drop rate and such.
Still, nothing back at 75 probably came close to how bad the drop rate on Salvage was. One could argue by using the old HNMs as example, but those were in an "open" environment, where competition from the whole server could occur.
Salvage was a "closed" environment, with limited access, limited duration and set routes. Stuff wouldn't drop too often so of course people who worked the hardest in it at 75 are now complaining for how mild the armor upgrades are, especially when compared to another refurbished event such as Nyzul Isle Investigation which shook every single lvl 99 job in the game.
All there is left to hope for is that these rumored alternative routes to aim for alexandrite are actually rewarding.
Even though HNMs were fair game for the whole server you still had to be part of a LS capable of claiming them and then killing them. One item that comes to mind that says to me SE don't really care how much effort you put in to getting then just out dating.... Hauteclaire (sp.) that was pretty much like d rings drop rate every 3-5 days and then bam ToM swords.
I'm sure people will do Neo Salvage just fine.
This time though the reason will be different, at least to some extent. People will likely do it because it's the new thing they can add to an otherwise dusty list of activities rather than because rewards are so OMG DO WANT.
There is just less enthusiasm about it, when there could've been so much epic in an event that took almost 3 years to refurbish, that's all. That said, have fun :)
Even though HNMs were fair game for the whole server you still had to be part of a LS capable of claiming them and then killing them. One item that comes to mind that says to me SE don't really care how much effort you put in to getting then just out dating.... Hauteclaire (sp.) that was pretty much like d rings drop rate every 3-5 days and then bam ToM swords.
People often confuse "challenge" with "throw people at it and repeat 1000 times in a row". The old salvage content was an awesome concept really (imo it was too hard, but thats not the point here), I dont know about the new salvage yet but personally I am a huge fan of low man-able content, so what I hear so far rather excites me:
the thing I miss recently in ffxi is challenge, challenge was soloing apollyon NW on blm at 75. challenge was NOT getting full homam/nashira gear with a full LS, that was just about repeating events and do your stuff rather than be creative about the situations you encounter.
So when people say "new salvage is too easy, we miss the old hardcore stuff..." what they really mean is "give us events that NEED full alliances to complete and stuff that drops there so we can get it with big ls point system by attending that event every week, nice and easy, straight forward stupid work without having to think". You see, I'd prefer salvage to be that way, that it might be well doable with a 6 man party if you know what to do, ok with 5 without mistakes, rough with 4 ppl that know what they do and nigh impossible with 3. And then play with 3.
Low droprates on items suck, I think everyone agrees on that, Id rather have SE introduce a point system similar to nyzul isle which strongly increases as the number of ppl attending decreases (or like ancient beastcoins from limbus). From those points you would buy your armor. That way everyone would be encouraged to do the event with the lowest number of people possible and if it is well balanced and 3 people is the absolute minimum you can just beat it with perfect play, then that would be imo the perfect event. Also, instanced battlefield like assault of course that any number of parties can play simultaneously (who came up with crap like limbus that ppl need to wait for others to finish? >_>)
talking about the quality of the gear of course is something different, however the discussion is difficult. SE can go on introducing better gear with every update but whats the point? you like +20 STR on your body? sure there you go. want +25? ok take it, you know what? just take +100 and be done... then they need to increase monster strength again and add stupid tp moves that remove gear and signet and encumber and silence poison pest and inflict stupidity and whatnot... the result after all these stages would be that we still fight monster as we used to but the old gear we had isnt worth anything anymore. So no better gear please, imo neo nyzul gear was already too overpowered, result was "you need that or youre gimp" which is just stupid.
SE would need to be more sensitive to fine-tuning gears for certain needs rather than just add more powerful stuff. example: instead of adding +10 str in event 1, then +15 str in event 2 and +20 str in event 3, what they should do is add a WS piece +STR +DEX +att (maybe even +slow like heka so its certainly ws gear) in event 1, add a tp gear +haste +store tp +acc +att in event 2 and gear for another purpose mabe +macc +mab +movespeed -recast (talking about melee jobs here, drk and nin came to my mind that could use that in special situations).
That way, imo ppl wouldnt need to moan about comparing gear so much and it would make sense to get all the gear from all the events if you were really playing your career job
sorry long post, didnt plan to in the beginning >_>
Even though HNMs were fair game for the whole server you still had to be part of a LS capable of claiming them and then killing them. One item that comes to mind that says to me SE don't really care how much effort you put in to getting then just out dating.... Hauteclaire (sp.) that was pretty much like d rings drop rate every 3-5 days and then bam ToM swords.
Just saying.
Hauteclaire is and always was a trophy.
Regardless of its utility, either a lot if time or Gil got wasted
Edit: I know there are lots that this can be applied to but just picked this as it stuck out in my mind.
Even though HNMs were fair game for the whole server you still had to be part of a LS capable of claiming them and then killing them. One item that comes to mind that says to me SE don't really care how much effort you put in to getting then just out dating.... Hauteclaire (sp.) that was pretty much like d rings drop rate every 3-5 days and then bam ToM swords.
Just saying.
Hauteclaire is and always was a trophy.
Regardless of its utility, either a lot if time or Gil got wasted
Depends. Its value is diminished only to people who don't know what it took to get; a trophy is a trophy. Its value will remain for the person who put in the effort and those who recognize it.
I suppose the same could be turned around for salvage gear, though. It's more reasonable to want something that was functional to begin with to remain functional, however.
When it comes to weapons it's harder to expect one to withstand leveling up.
Had they added more trials to existing weapons they would've found themselves under the pressure of subjective opinion coming from each single player who would've found himself in the position of absolutely needing one. Upgrades were far more logical and easy to apply to Relic/Mythics because they were not related to a single NM, and to compensate for the few items that happened to drop off similar NMs and that managed to keep their value they proceeded with the addition of new pop conditions. Overall on that department I believe they did a very good job. With that in mind, I still feel like slapping them on the wrist for the bad job they did pretty much everywhere else :P
I understand that a weapon @75 is going to be beaten by a weapon @99 but my point was more and the stark difference in ease at obtaining both weapons.
Like SE said thanks for you years of patronage, dedication, hard work and camping here is a Hauteclair. Oh if you want a knock off mr noob swing this sword at a few things and il give you one.
Oh also they made much more of an effort in design of old school endgame items IMO.
I understand that a weapon @75 is going to be beaten by a weapon @99 but my point was more and the stark difference in ease at obtaining both weapons.
Like SE said thanks for you years of patronage, dedication, hard work and camping here is a Hauteclair. Oh if you want a knock off mr noob swing this sword at a few things and il give you one.
The quality and quantity of players changed over the years. Also the basic rules of what's acceptable in an online MMO changed. Remember how bad it was when those people who 1st defeated PW took 18 hours to do so heh
With the game aging and more and more oldschool players leaving they absolutely had to change their appeal. I don;t think we can really blame them for that. Anyways, I understand your point.
Like SE said thanks for you years of patronage, dedication, hard work and camping here is a Hauteclair. Oh if you want a knock off mr noob swing this sword at a few things and il give you one.
That is where the problem lies. SE went too far with magian trials and Abyssea gear. When you would do events pre-abyssea, any upgrades to gear that you got were minor. Maybe some added attack, or 2-3 extra STR.
Then came Abyssea. Any joe-blow could kill a few hundred mobs and get a weapon that beats what serous end gamers would camp or work towards for years. And what was SEs original reply to those with relics and mythics? 500-2000 Relic WS kill shots, for a minor increase in damage.
Same thing with Emp gear. It was too good, so when they made NNI, they felt they needed to trump it, and they did. Now all the newer gear from Neo limbus/salvage/Odin is considered side grades with a few exceptions. If they hadn't originally gone overboard with the emp and NNI stuff, the newer salvage gear would be seen as awesome.
As always, it comes back to Balance. Abyssea blew balance out the water. It bred a generation of players that want fast rewards with little effort, and when something difficult comes along, they whine about it, and try to get it nerfed, so they can get their Participation Award.
QQ fest about the direction of the game everywhere. get over it most of us are too old now and have jobs we cant spend 8 hours a day camping nms to get a drop every 2 months like the old days. nothing we can do about it now. leveling in abyssea is great I LOVE RMT LEECH and gear i can tri box ^^
The quality and quantity of players changed over the years. Also the basic rules of what's acceptable in an online MMO changed. Remember how bad it was when those people who 1st defeated PW took 18 hours to do so heh
(After 18 hours, we didn't end up beating it even)
---
I like the new salvage, I just think they need to remove the 3 man requirement because people are just getting around the system with "DC's" anyway. I also love the new "cell-less" system and wish they would implement it to the old salvage as well.
Yeah, I was kind of hoping for some additional NM that would spawn if you say, killed gears on opposite sides of the Bhaflau floor at the same time (where the 12+ triple gears spawn when you aggro the rampart). Sadly though, it seems that it really just was a lazy way to throw in more alex farming.
I’d like to comment a bit on the high-level Salvage content based on everyone’s feedback thus far since the version update took place. While it might not address the current topic of equipment rewards, I feel it gives a bit more insight into the content. However, we will be sure to pass along the equipment related feedback to the development team right away!
With the recent high-level Salvage expansion we wanted to make it possible so that players with less experience could aim to clear the content without getting stuck on certain aspects.
Based on this objective, we balanced the content in such a way so that a party of roughly 6 players can clear it, and made it possible so that with the right amount of battle power you would be able to clear it comparatively faster. (It seems like there are already quite a few players who have managed to clear the content with less than 6 party members. Good job! )
For those of you who are well versed with the original Salvage content, you might be feeling that this content is a bit easy.
As a method of fostering skillful play for our veteran players, we’ve set up the content so that special routes can be taken to obtain more items more efficiently and made it so you can feel your achievements even more from spending time and heavily challenging the same routes.
For example, depending on your objective – if you are selecting a route to go after the equipment that you want of if you are selecting a route that will yield a great deal of alexandrite – your battle strategy will change.
With that said, we’d love it if you can fervently seek out these elements and take on the challenge, and let us know what you think.
So has anyone actually discovered any of these alleged routes that "yield a great deal of alexandrite"? If it's not possible to get at least as much alexandrite in neo Salvage with 3 people as I could in old Silver Sea Remnants, then I personally have zero interest in it.
Considering the HQ bosses have a 100% drop rate on the linen pouches, which has been posted on BG numerous times, you are better off farming alex in the new salvage areas. Both the NQ and the HQ bosses can drop pouches, so you could potentially leave with 2 linens.
I would agree in the case that there is enough help available to clear neo Salvage. But is that possible with only 3 people? I expect with only 3 it might be time better spent in old Salvage for alexandrite farming.
Considering the HQ bosses have a 100% drop rate on the linen pouches, which has been posted on BG numerous times, you are better off farming alex in the new salvage areas. Both the NQ and the HQ bosses can drop pouches, so you could potentially leave with 2 linens.
And at least one zone has been 2-boxed (SAM + RDM)
Now that the version update has been completed and the upper tier expansion of Salvage was introduced, I want to comment on the replies comparing this to past Salvage.
For the upper tier Salvage expansion, the goal was to allow players to clear as much as possible without the event being too shallow and without getting stuck.
With that assumption, the balance of the content was adjusted so that it can normally be cleared relatively quickly with about six players (and it seems that some people have already been able to clear with even fewer than six).
Some people who are especially experienced in the previous Salvage, however, may feel a little dissatisfied.
The event was designed with veteran players in mind as well, with the hope that if you continue to explore the various routes you can become more efficient and acquire more items along the same paths.
The routes were designed so that it is easy to aim for the goal of your choice; for example, by including areas where it is easy to collect Alexandrite. I think that as you investigate more thoroughly and discover these parts, you'll discover the purpose of these additional areas.
I’d like to comment a bit on the high-level Salvage content based on everyone’s feedback thus far since the version update took place. While it might not address the current topic of equipment rewards, I feel it gives a bit more insight into the content. However, we will be sure to pass along the equipment related feedback to the development team right away!
With the recent high-level Salvage expansion we wanted to make it possible so that players with less experience could aim to clear the content without getting stuck on certain aspects.
Based on this objective, we balanced the content in such a way so that a party of roughly 6 players can clear it, and made it possible so that with the right amount of battle power you would be able to clear it comparatively faster. (It seems like there are already quite a few players who have managed to clear the content with less than 6 party members. Good job! )
For those of you who are well versed with the original Salvage content, you might be feeling that this content is a bit easy.
As a method of fostering skillful play for our veteran players, we’ve set up the content so that special routes can be taken to obtain more items more efficiently and made it so you can feel your achievements even more from spending time and heavily challenging the same routes.
For example, depending on your objective – if you are selecting a route to go after the equipment that you want of if you are selecting a route that will yield a great deal of alexandrite – your battle strategy will change.
With that said, we’d love it if you can fervently seek out these elements and take on the challenge, and let us know what you think.
I spoke with the staff responsible for Salvage regarding future adjustment plans.
The result of our talk was that we plan to make adjustments to increase the drop rates for equipment obtained in the previous Salvage (Lv 35~).
Additionally, for Bhaflau Remnants (also known as "Bhafknock"*), in addition to the adjustment above, we're also planning to change it so that the equipment drops from monsters other than the original NMs.
Increased occurrences of NMs would affect the alexandrite yield (since cotton coinpurses drop in addition to the higher drop rate equipment), but we plan to make this adjustment in such a way that it will increase the chance for you to get the equipment that you're looking for.
{{*Apparently this is some JP nickname given to Bhaflau, assumedly because of the ramparts. I never heard it before so I'm just guessing on the translation, but that makes sense.}}
