+Haste Or +Dual Wield.

Please help me decide on which piece I should wear for THF/NIN. I don't really know if +dual wield is the same as +haste as far as weapon delay/tp gain goes (I know haste reduce delay of spells too, but I'm talking about melee weapon for this case).

I'm stuck between Mirke Wardecors with +3% Dual Wield effect and I'm not sure on the second Augment yet but either +10 Acc, +2% Double Attack, or +3% Crit. How does that armor compare to Rapparee Harness with +2 RAcc, +4% Haste? So I'll list the stats for both for easy viewing.

Mirke Wardecors:
DEF: 42, HP +10, MP +10, STR +5, DEX +5, AGI +5, +3% Dual Wield (augment), +10Acc/+2% Double Attack/+3% Crit (augment)

Rapparee Harness:
DEF: 32 Ranged Accuracy +2 Haste +4%

I will use the armor for tp gain mostly. I will switch to Rapparee when casting shadows and switch back if I have to, so please don't use that reason.

I just want your opinion on which is better for THF/NIN for TP set up. And if you can also pitch in your 2cent for which 2nd augment I should get if you think Mirke is the better choice.

Thanks for help and for reading! I know it was rather long and repetitive.

Isn't there a thread with the exact same title?
Or did that get derailed and nuked.

haste>>>dualweild. For one theres recast timers but also dual weild lowers your tp gain. Also easier to stack more haste and both of them get better and better the more you get.

It might contain the same title (I guess I didn't really make a good one) but this is more of which piece of armor would you pick? rather than Haste or Dual Wield. Since Rapparee does offer 4% haste while Mirke only does 3% Dual Wield, but with another augement would Mirke be better suited for party tp gain over all? with the +2% double attack for example, or would the +haste still outshine that? I'm just really asking for your preference and reason, I don't really need to know any complex formula or anything.

Your a thief your not capping your acc. The only body that can even compete with Mikre acc/dw is Homam and even then Mirke slightly beats it.
The acc is virtually the same including dex. If your setup is the same as me your critical hit % in your TP gear will jump another Tier. and DW is always active. the 2.4% or w/e triple attack on homam body is not.

Capital idea on Rapp harness for Uts Macro i love seeing devoted thieves such as yourself.

So yea acc/DW all the way for TP piece. you need the acc. Once your acc is built up enough stop using sushi altogether and pound back Meat with your acc/haste/DW build for thf/nin.
You wont regret it. My thief is a powerhouse on colibri and i dare anyone on my server to challenge me. (besides you mandau holders....)

I did the numbers along time ago for homam body. The dualweild does not do a damn thing for your tp gain you attack faster but lose amount of tp equal to that. And the 2.5% triple oh homam body only came out better if you had 0 triple attack and almost 0 haste. The more you had of either the best rapparee was.

I took DW and DA on my mirke.

imo mirke > rapparee if nothing else so for the str agi and dex

I still dont understand how people can need more acc in there tp gear that they need homam/mirke and still do good dancing edges... or do they use alot of acc for those too lol.

Mirke SLAUGHTERS Rapparee Harness unless you're getting Haste / 2x SV march and have exceptional gear in all situations and beats Homam in most.

5STR is a significant DoT increase for THF combined with 10acc and DW-3% is a steady 3.89% DoT/WS frequency. Assuming you're using one of the best combos of daggers, it doesn't reduce your TP/hit either so your WS frequency rises too :)

If were talking Colibri burn pt's and most EG events. Sure your acc is fine with rapparee harness.

If you use sushi.

btw.... wtf use's sushi?

I'm gonna call bs in 3% dualwield getting you tp faster then 4% haste. Unless that 10acc is making a huge difference.

I never said faster :p

EDIT: Though the 10acc assuming acc isn't capped is ~5% DoT/WS frequency. 4% Haste will be between 4 and 8% typically, normally around 5-6~

Sorry then what did you mean by this?

3% DW raises WS frequency since in this case it doesn't reduce TP/hit. Not as much as 4% Haste does if we compare stats side by side, but it still increases it.

I wasn't talking relatively :p

The Acc Does make a huge difference. Not only that, Dual Wield increases your chances of double attack and triple attack procession indirectly by just attacking faster in general. The Tp loss is meaningless as said above.

Thief TP, Mikre Acc/DW has been parsed as your best possible choice. followed fairly closely By Homam.

I still wanna know if you need that much acc to tp in... how do you get by on dancing edge? Just keep wearing ***tons of acc? And for that matter what if you already have really good acc in your tp gear?

Okay thanks guys. A couple more question I saw Raen mention the combo of dagger, do you mean Sirocco and Blau? Cause I can't afford Mandau >.< And you also mention if your Acc isn't cap +Acc is good, is there a way to determine if my Acc is cap or not? I doubt it, but if I can confirm it'd be great.

Thanks again, I've made my choice.. time to purchase ACP lol :)

5str/-3 dw% will beat 4% haste at capped acc assuming your haste is not supremely high.

STR does a lot for thf! Very underrated (no this doesn't mean you TP in STR rings... Rajas though yes please)!

EDIT: Yeah; -3% DW won't change tp/hit of Blau/Sirocco or X/Blau. Not sure on others, only done the math on those two.

Here's a old article from alla, shows the increasing returns of haste. At upper tier of haste you see that something like 1% will give you a 3%+ return on your total haste.

Long post go>>
looks fugly sorry, not sure how to fix the spacing.

haste table for Milich:


haste delay hits/min %increase (this 1 haste) total change
0 7.5 8.00 0.00% 0.00%
1 7.425 8.08 101.01% 101.01%
2 7.35 8.16 101.02% 102.04%
3 7.275 8.25 101.03% 103.09%
4 7.2 8.33 101.04% 104.17%
5 7.125 8.42 101.05% 105.26%
6 7.05 8.51 101.06% 106.38%
7 6.975 8.60 101.08% 107.53%
8 6.9 8.70 101.09% 108.70%
9 6.825 8.79 101.10% 109.89%
10 6.75 8.89 101.11% 111.11%
11 6.675 8.99 101.12% 112.36%
12 6.6 9.09 101.14% 113.64%
13 6.525 9.20 101.15% 114.94%
14 6.45 9.30 101.16% 116.28%
15 6.375 9.41 101.18% 117.65%
16 6.3 9.52 101.19% 119.05%
17 6.225 9.64 101.20% 120.48%
18 6.15 9.76 101.22% 121.95%
19 6.075 9.88 101.23% 123.46%
20 6 10.00 101.25% 125.00%
21 5.925 10.13 101.27% 126.58%
22 5.85 10.26 101.28% 128.21%
23 5.775 10.39 101.30% 129.87%
24 5.7 10.53 101.32% 131.58%
25 5.625 10.67 101.33% 133.33%
26 5.55 10.81 101.35% 135.14%
27 5.475 10.96 101.37% 136.99%
28 5.4 11.11 101.39% 138.89%
29 5.325 11.27 101.41% 140.85%
30 5.25 11.43 101.43% 142.86%
31 5.175 11.59 101.45% 144.93%
32 5.1 11.76 101.47% 147.06%
33 5.025 11.94 101.49% 149.25%
34 4.95 12.12 101.52% 151.52%
35 4.875 12.31 101.54% 153.85%
36 4.8 12.50 101.56% 156.25%
37 4.725 12.70 101.59% 158.73%
38 4.65 12.90 101.61% 161.29%
39 4.575 13.11 101.64% 163.93%
40 4.5 13.33 101.67% 166.67%
41 4.425 13.56 101.69% 169.49%
42 4.35 13.79 101.72% 172.41%
43 4.275 14.04 101.75% 175.44%
44 4.2 14.29 101.79% 178.57%
45 4.125 14.55 101.82% 181.82%
46 4.05 14.81 101.85% 185.19%
47 3.975 15.09 101.89% 188.68%
48 3.9 15.38 101.92% 192.31%
49 3.825 15.69 101.96% 196.08%
50 3.75 16.00 102.00% 200.00%
51 3.675 16.33 102.04% 204.08%
52 3.6 16.67 102.08% 208.33%
53 3.525 17.02 102.13% 212.77%
54 3.45 17.39 102.17% 217.39%
55 3.375 17.78 102.22% 222.22%
56 3.3 18.18 102.27% 227.27%
57 3.225 18.60 102.33% 232.56%
58 3.15 19.05 102.38% 238.10%
59 3.075 19.51 102.44% 243.90%
60 3 20.00 102.50% 250.00%
61 2.925 20.51 102.56% 256.41%
62 2.85 21.05 102.63% 263.16%
63 2.775 21.62 102.70% 270.27%
64 2.7 22.22 102.78% 277.78%
65 2.625 22.86 102.86% 285.71%
66 2.55 23.53 102.94% 294.12%
67 2.475 24.24 103.03% 303.03%
68 2.4 25.00 103.13% 312.50%
69 2.325 25.81 103.23% 322.58%
70 2.25 26.67 103.33% 333.33%
71 2.175 27.59 103.45% 344.83%
72 2.1 28.57 103.57% 357.14%
73 2.025 29.63 103.70% 370.37%
74 1.95 30.77 103.85% 384.62%
75 1.875 32.00 104.00% 400.00%
76 1.8 33.33 104.17% 416.67%
77 1.725 34.78 104.35% 434.78%
78 1.65 36.36 104.55% 454.55%
79 1.575 38.10 104.76% 476.19%
80 1.5 40.00 105.00% 500.00%

Meh I still like my harpe and Pharpe if I can ever get it. Don't really focus on DOT more a ws person. Though all these annoying melees always dancing around the mobs and screwing up my SA and TA grind my gears... forget about even SATAing

I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean the DE needs a good +acc in order to land hits? And since that is so how would other thf who use Rapparee go through with landing DE?

For me usually I switch to Dragon Harness when doing DE, for the DEX+AGL and I switch to DEX gear, since I didn't know acc effects DE.

It's multihit so acc does directly affect your consistency :p hard to get enough offensive stats to replace a whole missed hit!

EDIT: THF is a very DoT-centric job on anything that isn't an HNM either; on parses I can typically have 70%DoT:30%WS and the WS aren't wimpy.

Dagger delays are low, so removing 50 or so delay from a dagger can be a big % increase in DoT (Harpe to SK for instance is a 60/210 = 28.6% improvement in DoT from delay! Obviously less when you consider D difference).

I see, so should I keep Mirke when doing the WS as oppose to Dragon Harness? Cause I don't have any +acc gear on when doing the ws heheh, maybe equip +acc neck piece instead of Spike Necklace? :x

you realize i can macro in other gear right? Most people use a thing called a macro. Unfortunately i don't weapon skill in Mirke body, My homam, my Turban, and Sniper+1's, ect ect. I have 4/5 Hecatomb ect ect why do you assume im going to WS in this? Str caps on Colibri @ like 105 i think for a non Mandau/ Pharpe thief.

http://www.bluegartrls.com/forum/73233-mirke-wardecors-thf-2.html

Read TybudX's cut and paste. This is Old news.



I seriously hope your not stacking SATA @ lv 75 or i'm going to go kick a dog.

Actually I use mirke with +acc/att for ws. But yeah what I mean is if you NEED another 10acc just to tp in... then unless you keep that stuff on your danceing edge would fail hard. As for rapparee users well wsing in that is dumb so really anything you get to replace it for ws would just up your acc more while switching your acc body for dragon harness would lower your acc... idk maybe I just wear more acc gear on other slots for tp then most thfs...

Of course I know you can maccro in fact my question assumes your going to maccro in gear that has less acc then your tp set thats the whole point of the question...

Yeah, for DE you want Love Torque/Gorget ideally, then PCC, then Chiv Chain, then Spike Necklace.

Body: Hecatomb Harness > Enkidu's Harness > 10/12acc body etc. Mirke is best if stacked with a SA for DE. Dragon Harness best if Feint is up.

Skadi Body beats all of course <_<

I tried gorget and it never did as much as chiv chain ever... the acc it added was kinda lol as well as the dmg... love torque... one day I hope but think I'll get me a PCC soon now that I have cash. I need hecatomb gear. My tp gear is nice but my ws gear is a little lol. Like really only good peices are mirke enkidu legs and um voyager I guess

You can't eyeball something like that =O Gorget is roughly a 8%~ damage increase to first hit (most important hit) and 10acc over all hits.

well there is nothing wrong with Mikre acc/att its a wonderful WS piece. ]
But the debate was TP piece.
I don't think anyone here is acc crazy on DE, But we do realize we need some acc for the WS.
You can have more acc than i do however this is my setup for a Meat build on colibri,
Weapon: blau/Skuki or Mkris
ranged: Bomblet
head: Turban
neck: Love torque
earrings: Brutal/ Suppa
Body: Mirke acc/DW
hands: Dusk
Rings: Sniper+1x2
Back: that str+3 attack+15 one... (escapes me)
Belt: swift
Legs: homam
feet: homam

and My LS still teases me how much i miss compared to a Sam haha.

Weaponskill changes:

Head: Hecatomb
Earring: Delta / hollow
Body: hecatomb
hands: hecatomb
rings: raja's / Adroit
waist: war
legs: enkidu
feet: hecatomb

my str atm is exceeding the 105 cap and literally is doing nothing for my WS other than adding minimal attack+, but i cant complete my WS set right now.

I used to WS in PCC i try to keep my acc around +20 for DE it seems to do well for me

I apologize for being so hasty with you Dasva, im just a passionate thief is all =(