Follow-up On Relic, Mythic, And Empyrean Weapons |
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Follow-up on Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean Weapons
Phoenix.Sehachan said: » Actually Stringing Pummel is already very powerful and with the mythic boost is just more awesome and grants an even more awesome aftermath. On Spharai you'd have to rely on a weak ws to put up AM and even then I'm not sure you'd match the damage from KKK. Respectfully though, you're still not seeing the point, although your observation is appreciated. I wasn't making an argument against your point, just giving an information.
Xellan said: » Ragnarok.Afania said: » Xellan said: » Okay, two things should stand out to everyone. First, the damage difference between Gastraphetes and Death Penalty is significant (14), but this is ameliorated on Armageddon, a weapon usable by both Ranger and Corsair at a damage rating equal to that of Annihilator. Second, and more interestingly, is the difference in base damage between Glanzfaust 51 and Kenkonken 41. On Verethragna, the damage is 42, only 1 point higher than Verethragna. Compare any of these to Spharai, and you see a significant reduction in damage rating when you compare the Relic to the Mythic or Empyrean weapons. This should tell you something about the way that the development team is thinking about "balance." To them, "balance" is about making sure that Puppetmaster doesn't have access to a damage rating comparable to the highest damage weapon available to Monk. You didn't check the delay and ammo of each weapon..... Gastraphetes's base dmg with ammo(assuming everyone using best ammo) is 161, Death Penalty is 153, Arma COR is 165, Arma RNG is 203, Anni RNG is also 203. Also I'm not sure about math about PUP Mythic, but I'm under the impression that it attacks faster with Enhance Martial Arts on it, wouldn't it ended up dealing more dmg(not counting pet aspect) The point wasn't to compare Ammo across the board, but you can test Wildfire damage, and from what I understand base damage doesn't do hardly anything to alter Wildfire at all, whether you are using best ammo or a copper bullet. I assume that Corsair would have DMG 165 on Annihilator if it was available? Regardless, I'm not here to compare ammo and complain for a lack of better ammunition on Corsair. You can take up that cause if you want. With regard to Kenkonken, I'm not positive on the math either, but I would assume that you aren't going to be attacking so fast and hard to out-parse the DoT on Spharai, especially considering the hidden 13% rate of triple damage proc, counter damage, and damage boost of Final Heaven compared to Stringing Pummel outside of Abyssea. Again, the problem isn't whether Kenkonken is better than Spharai. If it is, wonderful. That still doesn't fix the problem that all you have on Puppetmaster is a sad and nerfed Empyrean or an out-of-reach Mythic, with no chance at a Relic, whilst simultaneously being the single obstacle blocking Dancer, Scholar, Corsair and Blue Mage from Relic weapons access. Lol when physical WS dmg is based on the weapon total base dmg, what's the point if you don't calculate ammo dmg, that makes no sense. If you don't calculate ammo dmg, you're going to see RNG and COR having same base dmg on gun, but that's not accurate at all.(I don't give jack ***about base dmg difference between jobs though, just giving information) And btw, Final Heaven is crap, relic MNK should use merit WS, and I'm under the impression that empy WS still>merit WS, and stringing Pummel way > Final Heaven. Ragnarok.Afania said: » Xellan said: » Ragnarok.Afania said: » Xellan said: » Okay, two things should stand out to everyone. First, the damage difference between Gastraphetes and Death Penalty is significant (14), but this is ameliorated on Armageddon, a weapon usable by both Ranger and Corsair at a damage rating equal to that of Annihilator. Second, and more interestingly, is the difference in base damage between Glanzfaust 51 and Kenkonken 41. On Verethragna, the damage is 42, only 1 point higher than Verethragna. Compare any of these to Spharai, and you see a significant reduction in damage rating when you compare the Relic to the Mythic or Empyrean weapons. This should tell you something about the way that the development team is thinking about "balance." To them, "balance" is about making sure that Puppetmaster doesn't have access to a damage rating comparable to the highest damage weapon available to Monk. You didn't check the delay and ammo of each weapon..... Gastraphetes's base dmg with ammo(assuming everyone using best ammo) is 161, Death Penalty is 153, Arma COR is 165, Arma RNG is 203, Anni RNG is also 203. Also I'm not sure about math about PUP Mythic, but I'm under the impression that it attacks faster with Enhance Martial Arts on it, wouldn't it ended up dealing more dmg(not counting pet aspect) The point wasn't to compare Ammo across the board, but you can test Wildfire damage, and from what I understand base damage doesn't do hardly anything to alter Wildfire at all, whether you are using best ammo or a copper bullet. I assume that Corsair would have DMG 165 on Annihilator if it was available? Regardless, I'm not here to compare ammo and complain for a lack of better ammunition on Corsair. You can take up that cause if you want. With regard to Kenkonken, I'm not positive on the math either, but I would assume that you aren't going to be attacking so fast and hard to out-parse the DoT on Spharai, especially considering the hidden 13% rate of triple damage proc, counter damage, and damage boost of Final Heaven compared to Stringing Pummel outside of Abyssea. Again, the problem isn't whether Kenkonken is better than Spharai. If it is, wonderful. That still doesn't fix the problem that all you have on Puppetmaster is a sad and nerfed Empyrean or an out-of-reach Mythic, with no chance at a Relic, whilst simultaneously being the single obstacle blocking Dancer, Scholar, Corsair and Blue Mage from Relic weapons access. Lol when physical WS dmg is based on the weapon total base dmg, what's the point if you don't calculate ammo dmg, that makes no sense. If you don't calculate ammo dmg, you're going to see RNG and COR having same base dmg on gun, but that's not accurate at all. And btw, Final Heaven is crap, relic MNK should use merit WS, and I'm under the impression that empy WS still>merit WS, and stringing Pummel way > Final Heaven. Saying empy h2h is "sad and nerfed" with superior WS and ODD doesn't sound accurate no? So do you propose we see to it that only 19 of the current 20 jobs get Relics because Final Heaven sucks? Do you have an actual solution? Xellan said: » So do you propose we see to it that only 19 of the current 20 jobs get Relics because Final Heaven sucks? Do you have an actual solution? I don't really care who gets relic who doesn't tbh. Relic isn't solving problem of PUP, I was just giving information when you start comparing FH(which nobody use), and not factoring ammo dmg when looking at base dmg(which makes no sense). Not interested in Proposing anything. Ragnarok.Afania said: » And btw, Final Heaven is crap, relic MNK should use merit WS, and I'm under the impression that empy WS still>merit WS, and stringing Pummel way > Final Heaven. In high buff situations, Shijin Spiral is stronger than Smite (not sure if this accounts for impetus up situations, but I know there are some situations in which it beats Smite) I just realized, if they're making mythic weapons for Rune Fencer and Geomancer, it means there will be two new weaponskills attainable. Yay. \o/
/slowpoke Adding ammo damage wasn't a concern of mine because I never purported to state that overall damage from Corsair and Ranger should be the same, but merely that adding Corsair to Annihilator not result in unbalancing the game. Since Ranger and Corsair already have access to a Marksmanship weapon with the same base damage as Annihilator, there's no reason that introducing Corsair to Annihilator should break the game, if base damage ratings are to be considered the basis for comparative analysis. The wonderful thing about different damage potentials on ammo between Ranger and Corsair is that it acts as a secondary means of balancing Annihilator indirectly without affecting the stats already on the gun. If Corsair is deemed to be underpowered after the addition of the gun, new ammo could be added with a higher damage rating than currently available. Conversely, if Ranger is deemed not powerful enough by comparison, but Corsair itself is considered fine, then ammo could be introduced to increase Ranger's comparative advantage.
Ramuh.Laffter said: » I just realized, if they're making mythic weapons for Rune Fencer and Geomancer, it means there will be two new weaponskills attainable. Yay. \o/ /slowpoke Praying it will be a multihit gs ws with chances to crit. Or at least some good damage so spamming it with a mythic style weapon would be somewhat on par with other 2 hander mythics. Expecting something stupid like single hit ws with magic attack down, 30% INT mod, 1.5 static ftp, effect of matk down varies with tp. And since it's a gs, let's put an attack- on it too.
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Odin.Eikechi said: » Ragnarok.Afania said: » And btw, Final Heaven is crap, relic MNK should use merit WS, and I'm under the impression that empy WS still>merit WS, and stringing Pummel way > Final Heaven. In high buff situations, Shijin Spiral is stronger than Smite (not sure if this accounts for impetus up situations, but I know there are some situations in which it beats Smite) |
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