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Ragnarok vs OAT
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 95
By Asura.Ezekial 2012-06-28 16:35:29
the OAT GS is great in Nyzul and VW. You have to have a good WS set though. If you don't, that should be your biggest priority.
I play with a 95Rag player often, and Agerknux's post is pretty accurate. He normally out reso's me by 200-400 average in VW. an OAT
's DoT is nothing special at all.
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Asura.Vyre
Forum Moderator
サーバ: Asura
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Posts: 15374
By Asura.Vyre 2012-06-28 16:39:47
And lastly Ragnarok looks ugly compared to a huge Gold archaic scythe. Wouldn't you want to go around town with a huge gold weapon on your back? (Yes, I know it doesn't make Apoc better)
Ragnarok isn't ugly. It's one of the only unique looking relics, and Apoc is just a reskinned Demonslicer. It's huge and it's not unique, and it is certainly not pretty.
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Ragnarok.Rezeak
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 162
By Ragnarok.Rezeak 2012-06-28 16:47:26
But the question is still:
is it:
Case 1: Rag > OAT
or
Case 2: Rag >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OAT
I think his question is more: I'm building a Rag AND an Apoc, AND an OAT gs... Wich one should I finish first. (OAT being obvious, the 2nd one though....)
From some rough calc i did (lost post :( )
Oat does 9% more overall WS dmg only when acc is capped
and rag deal 30-50%+ more melee Dmg
the + is there cause when accuracy matters Rag destroys OAT.
either way it was very rough calulations so you prolly can give or take 10 or 15%.
either way rag > oat pretty simple
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Asura.Fondue
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2445
By Asura.Fondue 2012-06-28 17:12:54
Quote: So me quitting means im not allowed to keep up with whats going on in the game? K.
thank god youre still around to continue shitting up threads with irrelevant opinions stop liking what I dont like.mp3
still irrelevant to this topic bruh
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-06-28 17:13:25
Quote: So me quitting means im not allowed to keep up with whats going on in the game? K.
thank god youre still around to continue shitting up threads with irrelevant opinions stop liking what I dont like.mp3
still irrelevant to this topic bruh just like your apoc.
Asura.Fondue
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2445
By Asura.Fondue 2012-06-28 17:17:04
I didnt bring it up :((((
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
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Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-06-28 17:18:41
I didnt bring it up :(((( That must be some kind of opinion, just like Ragnarok is a better DD weapon than Apocalypse, huh?
Asura.Fondue
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2445
By Asura.Fondue 2012-06-28 17:19:22
I dont know who youre trying to educate here, most people are aware of that
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
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Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-06-28 17:20:22
Quote: So me quitting means im not allowed to keep up with whats going on in the game? K.
thank god youre still around to continue shitting up threads with irrelevant opinions
This says otherwise.
Asura.Fondue
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2445
By Asura.Fondue 2012-06-28 17:22:17
Apoc sucks, make Rag and be happy.
Hi, this is an opinion. One that was not in any way requested by the op and this was the first post in the thread.
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-06-28 17:23:05
Considering it's in relation to dealing damage, it's really not.
Cerberus.Sigurd
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13
By Cerberus.Sigurd 2012-06-28 17:23:22
Ok, so I gather Ragnarok is a significant enough increase in DD potential to warrant giving it thought. I think my plan will basically be:
1. Make OAT
2. Start farming currency. If I'm actually capable of making a relic with my current available play time, ill try seeing where I spend most of my time and see where I end up heading (Ragnarok + maybe lvling WAR for best use of this relic in events like high tier VW/legion or Apoc for lowman / solo stuff)
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Asura.Fondue
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2445
By Asura.Fondue 2012-06-28 17:23:47
It really is, you're trying too hard :( must be a boring summer
Ramuh.Austar
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10457
By Ramuh.Austar 2012-06-28 17:25:14
3k > 2k. That's my opinion, don't like it? Make apoc.
Ragnarok.Agerknux
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 94
By Ragnarok.Agerknux 2012-06-28 17:39:14
WS wise, math shows Resolutions stomps pretty much any scythe WS. The only WS that gets close to it is Insurgency with a 99 Liberator.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2012-06-28 17:40:51
Ragnarok.Agerknux said: »The only WS that gets close to it is Insurgency with a 99 Liberator. You should redo your math if you think Insurgency is going to be anywhere near Resolution. Entropy with AM3 is a different story.
Ragnarok.Agerknux
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 94
By Ragnarok.Agerknux 2012-06-28 17:46:22
Sorry, didn't mean it gets really close. Forgot about the terribad mods, so yeah Insurgency is out.
Diabolos.Raelia
サーバ: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
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By Diabolos.Raelia 2012-06-28 23:22:51
Entropy can get pretty close on top-end targets due to higher Attack and Accuracy, not to mention DRK can get just as much INT as STR on gear, but Voidwatch buffs (pretty much Stalwart's alone) make this irrelevant.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 95
By Asura.Ezekial 2012-06-29 21:23:43
1. Make OAT
2. Start farming currency. If I'm actually capable of making a relic with my current available play time, ill try seeing where I spend most of my time and see where I end up heading (Ragnarok + maybe lvling WAR for best use of this relic in events like high tier VW/legion or Apoc for lowman / solo stuff)
This is the sum up of DRK. don't waste your time on anything else. Everything except relic sucks when compared to the OAT sword. And if you make a 90+ Emp, you're stupid for not using that on currency for Ragnarok.
Phoenix.Urteil
By Phoenix.Urteil 2012-07-08 05:55:40
Remember to stun.
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2012-07-08 06:38:32
I don't know if its changed since I quit but, last I checked using an inferior weapon and purposely doing less damage with it was considered pretty gimp. To me its a DDs job to push out as much damage as physically possible.
Chosing Apoc over Rag isnt going to make the game any more funner, unless doing less damage is fun? Other DDs don't need Catastrophe to stay alive and do just fine so neither should DRK.
OAT is pretty great, I think comparable to 90 Caladbolg? Other than that if your looking to get the most out of DRK Rag will not let you down in the very least.
I'm not sure when you left but it wasn't until Neo Nyzul gear that Rag pulled way ahead of Apoc. And if you are looking for max damage you shouldn't be on DRK in the first place so that argument is pretty weak. DRK is the top tier DD under any 3< min fights that your other DDs are not capped pdif in, and likely still top on longer fights where pdif is an issue. Nyzul gear may have increased the gap, but it was quite adequately pulling ahead of apoc the moment resolution was added. The only job that really comes out much ahead of DRK is a capped pdif WAR, or MNK with a lucky impetus roll anyways.
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Phoenix.Syto
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 28
By Phoenix.Syto 2012-07-08 07:46:29
Phoenix.Dramatica said: »I don't know if its changed since I quit but, last I checked using an inferior weapon and purposely doing less damage with it was considered pretty gimp. To me its a DDs job to push out as much damage as physically possible.
Chosing Apoc over Rag isnt going to make the game any more funner, unless doing less damage is fun? Other DDs don't need Catastrophe to stay alive and do just fine so neither should DRK.
OAT is pretty great, I think comparable to 90 Caladbolg? Other than that if your looking to get the most out of DRK Rag will not let you down in the very least.
I'm not sure when you left but it wasn't until Neo Nyzul gear that Rag pulled way ahead of Apoc. And if you are looking for max damage you shouldn't be on DRK in the first place so that argument is pretty weak. DRK is the top tier DD under any 3< min fights that your other DDs are not capped pdif in, and likely still top on longer fights where pdif is an issue. Nyzul gear may have increased the gap, but it was quite adequately pulling ahead of apoc the moment resolution was added. The only job that really comes out much ahead of DRK is a capped pdif WAR, or MNK with a lucky impetus roll anyways.
I think that a really good geared/skilled 99 Relic/Empy SAM can rival if not beat a DRK and WAR in fights that are under 3 minutes just due to higher WS Frequency and TP management. Although, in longer fights greater than 3 minutes, DRK and WAR can do much better due to the enhanced DoT from CRIT-dmg/CRIT% on swings. I have a lot of respect for DRK and WAR even though I favor playing SAM. Although, there are some DRKs out there that do very well in fights less than 3 minutes as well. I just don't think a SAM would lose very often if the TP is utilized perfectly with max buffs/pDIF etc.
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 577
By Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk 2012-07-08 08:13:36
Been spanking rag DRK's with resolution on ADL with my Spharai Mnk. #1 in the parser son.
Phoenix.Sehachan
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2012-07-08 08:15:22
And my cor has parsed first on Pil. Can you see how irrelevant is a statement like that?
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By Yozo 2012-07-08 08:29:51
The number of posts that don't answer the OP's question at all vs. the number of completely irrelevant posts is ridiculous in this thread. Carry on.
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Ragnarok.Rezeak
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 162
By Ragnarok.Rezeak 2012-07-08 09:05:57
Entropy can get pretty close on top-end targets due to higher Attack and Accuracy, not to mention DRK can get just as much INT as STR on gear, but Voidwatch buffs (pretty much Stalwart's alone) make this irrelevant.
Except Phorcys body and Mekira-oto give a even bigger advantage to Resolution
I'm Pretty sure Mekira-oto is the best head when you have the relevant day available for entropy
Not 100% but i also think Phorcys Body is the best for Entropy as well so no DRK doesn't get anywhere as much INT gear as STR
Carbuncle.Lynxblade
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1654
By Carbuncle.Lynxblade 2012-07-08 10:18:48
Just coming back to the game and I've read through as many threads as I can. I have a general understanding that the best Great Sword options for DRK atm are OAT and Ragnarok (i guess 99 caladbolg may enter the conversation but I'm not interested in that cost).
Assuming Ragnarok has an edge over OAT, how big is this difference? I'm just debating wether or not to spend significant time on Ragnarok when I can dedicate much less time to OAT, get similar results, and spend the rest of my time on something else for one of other jobs or maybe Apoc.
Honestly to me it looks like there's no contest Rag 99 looks Vastly superior then OAT
Most the events these days, they don't even want dd's anymore unless they have emp or relic dd, so you might as well work on 1, and since drk seems to be your fav job ( I guess) might as well be rag
you will probably be doing ALOT of voidwatch when you get back, and voidwatch is about 80% all about ws dmg if your a dd (since your spamming ws's with tp wings). and Im pretty sure rag stomps oat in ws dmg >_>.
besides voidwatch I cant think of much where Drk is pretty good
Aby = mnk whm blm nin onry
Legion = too hard from what Ive heard and even then would prolly want only relic/emp dds
Neo nyzul = they will prolly also only want relic/emp dds
cant think of anything else atm that people are doing....
Asura.Kese
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 395
By Asura.Kese 2012-07-08 11:15:05
Quetzalcoatl.Mnkk said: »Been spanking rag DRK's with resolution on ADL with my Spharai Mnk. #1 in the parser son. must have some shitty *** drks
By Zigfield 2012-07-08 13:00:56
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »
besides voidwatch I cant think of much where Drk is pretty good
Aby = mnk whm blm nin onry plus thf is what most groups take to abyssea, but other DDs can work just as well
Legion = too hard from what Ive heard and even then would prolly want only relic/emp dds
Neo nyzul = they will prolly also only want relic/emp dds
cant think of anything else atm that people are doing....
...what?
I don't do Legion so I can't speak about that, but for Einjerhar and Neo-Nyzul DRK is a pretty safe bet, and actually SAM and DRK can be pretty tied for spots in Nyzul now. I currently use the OAT on DRK and it is pretty legit damage, especially with Embrava + Haste + LR.
As has been declared with little to no objection, Ragnarok's crit hit rate and WS damage makes the Fulgurante take second place, but the OAT is, in my opinion, the only other GS to use while you work on a Ragnarok.
Quetzalcoatl.Landsoul
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 78
By Quetzalcoatl.Landsoul 2012-07-08 13:06:25
Carbuncle.Lynxblade said: »
Aby = mnk war whm blm nin onry
fixed
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Just coming back to the game and I've read through as many threads as I can. I have a general understanding that the best Great Sword options for DRK atm are OAT and Ragnarok (i guess 99 caladbolg may enter the conversation but I'm not interested in that cost).
Assuming Ragnarok has an edge over OAT, how big is this difference? I'm just debating wether or not to spend significant time on Ragnarok when I can dedicate much less time to OAT, get similar results, and spend the rest of my time on something else for one of other jobs or maybe Apoc.
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