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Teacher turns the tables on school "bully"..
By Drjones 2012-06-19 17:38:50
So here's a fun story for the land of the rising sun:
I was a teacher over there for a while and although I predominantly taught elementary school, there was a high school I heard about in my region with a trouble maker kid. You see, in Japan you have a dress code, a code on what hair color you can have, etc. One kid decided he would be cool and dye his hair blond (I realize none of us think of that as a big deal so just take for granted that it is there).
On Monday he went to school and didn't get into any kind of trouble. He kept on going to school and all his friends were freaking out telling him he needed to stop or he was going to get in trouble. Come Friday the principal decided the kid had had enough time to make the correct decision on his own and called a special assembly of the whole school. The principal got up and told everyone how lucky, nay how privileged, they all were to be hearing from a very special speaker. He continued to build this speaker up and talk about how special he was until he'd sufficiently piqued the interest of all the kids.
He then announced that the troublemaker who'd died his hair was to be the speaker and was going to be telling everyone about why he was so special and why he didn't have to follow the rules. Some of the cultural significance may be lost in translation here, but suffice to say the kid cried in front of the whole school and come Monday he came back towing that line. The principal of course was lauded as a hero for publicly shaming the kid.
Cultural differences are great. For my part, I'm not a huge fan of public shamings per se, but I'd much prefer the Japanese system where teachers and administrators are empowered to do the job crappy parents won't instead of having their hands tied by legal liability.
Honestly? That sounds like a truly awful thing to do to a person.
 Phoenix.Ragmar
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By Phoenix.Ragmar 2012-06-19 18:11:08
People always cry an eye for an aye makes the world go blind but what it really teaches is dont poke people in the eye or you get it right back. Anyone here like being poked in the eye? Any parent of a real bully should have DHS in their house figuring out what the real problem is. Parents have no accountability for the actions of their children these days and its patheitc. How bout some fines or even jail time for choosing to have a child and raising them to be drains on society. Go watch some MTV teen mom or bag girls club and tell me the parents who raised those (for lack of a better word) "people" shouldnt be in jail or atleast have to pay some extreme fines. Those very kids are the ones who will be drawing financial assistance their entire adult lives and then there is their kids who will grow up to repeat the cycle.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2012-06-19 18:13:09
Not the teacher's place.
Phoenix.Ragmar
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By Phoenix.Ragmar 2012-06-19 18:26:59
And whose job is it since the parents arent doing it?
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Phoenix.Ragmar
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By Phoenix.Ragmar 2012-06-19 18:29:59
You realize these teachers are better educated in childhood development and spend more time with the child than the parents do 99% of the time?
 Fairy.Mikira
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By Fairy.Mikira 2012-06-19 18:33:56
ITo be honest I'm very curious what everyone would do.
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By Sylph.Margulis 2012-06-19 18:39:29
One thing I learned from being bullied for years of my life is 90% of the time words and telling other does nothing. People are to afraid to step in and take required actions. I was blessed with a mother that understood that and after words and lack of action from school facility she told the school this. "Since you refuse to take action to protect my son he will protect himself. If he is served with detention or in school suspension you will here from me and I will be here to serve it with him, But I will in no way tell him he was ever wrong to defend himself." She also told me personally "You have ever right to defend yourself no matter what anyone else says." So when I had to I made my way through grade 6-12 (hardest times of my life) With my fists. This i'm thankful for and will pass those words to my kids "You have right to defend yourself regardless of what others say, and should you be punished I will serve it with you.". Lastly Should my kid try to be a bully he will get whats coming to him, A belt to the ***.
Asura.Poupee
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By Asura.Poupee 2012-06-19 18:41:37
It's easy to say "Ya the teacher was right!" when it isn't your child.
I don't think teachers should go to the extent of hitting a child (or make other kids hit them) because, it isn't their child. If the parents don't want to do anything about it and the bully..continues to bully then he should be put into classes that are for bullies only and have people work with them (and their parents get involved) for this issue to stop.
 Fairy.Spence
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By Fairy.Spence 2012-06-19 18:57:43
There's always too little information in cases like this. 'Bully' can be a very broad term, and while I'm not condoning it, younever know what kind of ***the kid is going through so justifying a humiliation such as this as punishment is wrong, IMO.
Too easy to toss out blame!
I'm no parent, but I still understand parenting is had as hell these days.
Phoenix.Ragmar
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By Phoenix.Ragmar 2012-06-19 19:00:44
It's easy to say "Ya the teacher was right!" when it isn't your child.
I don't think teachers should go to the extent of hitting a child (or make other kids hit them) because, it isn't their child. If the parents don't want to do anything about it and the bully..continues to bully then he should be put into classes that are for bullies only and have people work with them (and their parents get involved) for this issue to stop.
We already can't fund our schools. Bottom line every problem in this country boils down to one thing, accountability.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-06-19 19:05:05
I don't get what there is to discuss... Teachers are not there to promote violence... You can say all you want about bad parenting but if I had a child in that school and she was teaching him/her to hit other kids then I would be pissed... Personally if bullying is taking to a level where someone feels something like this needs to be done the kid needs to be expelled... Not lined up to be bullied himself...
An eye for an eye really does make the world blind... if kids are brought up that way and then putting that view on all they do... it wouldn't be good.... not to mention that this wasn't an eye for an eye... this went beyond that.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-06-19 19:06:51
It's easy to say "Ya the teacher was right!" when it isn't your child.
I don't think teachers should go to the extent of hitting a child (or make other kids hit them) because, it isn't their child. If the parents don't want to do anything about it and the bully..continues to bully then he should be put into classes that are for bullies only and have people work with them (and their parents get involved) for this issue to stop.
We already can't fund our schools. Bottom line every problem in this country boils down to one thing, accountability. Who are you holding accountable?
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Phoenix.Ragmar
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By Phoenix.Ragmar 2012-06-19 22:22:20
It's easy to say "Ya the teacher was right!" when it isn't your child.
I don't think teachers should go to the extent of hitting a child (or make other kids hit them) because, it isn't their child. If the parents don't want to do anything about it and the bully..continues to bully then he should be put into classes that are for bullies only and have people work with them (and their parents get involved) for this issue to stop.
We already can't fund our schools. Bottom line every problem in this country boils down to one thing, accountability. Who are you holding accountable?
The child first. Yes 5 years olds should know right from wrong and if their parents are too neglectful to do so then I say allow better trained, more prepared and actually willing adults do so.
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By Ramuh.Laffter 2012-06-19 22:36:07
It's easy to say "Ya the teacher was right!" when it isn't your child.
I don't think teachers should go to the extent of hitting a child (or make other kids hit them) because, it isn't their child. If the parents don't want to do anything about it and the bully..continues to bully then he should be put into classes that are for bullies only and have people work with them (and their parents get involved) for this issue to stop.
We already can't fund our schools. Bottom line every problem in this country boils down to one thing, accountability. Who are you holding accountable?
The child first. Yes 5 years olds should know right from wrong and if their parents are too neglectful to do so then I say allow better trained, more prepared and actually willing adults do so. That would make the parent accountable, not the child.
Phoenix.Ragmar
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By Phoenix.Ragmar 2012-06-19 23:24:39
It's easy to say "Ya the teacher was right!" when it isn't your child.
I don't think teachers should go to the extent of hitting a child (or make other kids hit them) because, it isn't their child. If the parents don't want to do anything about it and the bully..continues to bully then he should be put into classes that are for bullies only and have people work with them (and their parents get involved) for this issue to stop.
We already can't fund our schools. Bottom line every problem in this country boils down to one thing, accountability. Who are you holding accountable?
The child first. Yes 5 years olds should know right from wrong and if their parents are too neglectful to do so then I say allow better trained, more prepared and actually willing adults do so. That would make the parent accountable, not the child.
No holding the parent accountable is fining them or throwing their lazy pathetic *** in jail. Allowing the teachers to teach the child right from wrong is holding the child accountable.
Phoenix.Ragmar
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By Phoenix.Ragmar 2012-06-19 23:27:20
lol the add to the right of my reply box on this very site has "Are you being bullied? Find a safe learning environment. Online high school at no cost." ...
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-06-19 23:32:50
Beating the kid and humiliating him is not teaching him right from wrong... It's keeping the status quo and teaching the other kids that violence and humiliation is the answer... Holding a 5 y/o accountable is ridiculous... kids are very impressionable and more should be done to shape their behavior in a positive manor but I guarantee you beating them is not the way... if he becomes to destructive or a hinderance to the education of the other children then you need to give him the boot and get him the help he needs... No one wants to take the time and put in the effort it would actually take to help these kids... a kid this young does not think the same way we do and does not understand the long term implications and effects of his actions...
Allowing teachers to teach them right from wrong? How did she do that? Oh hey kids... if someone does something wrong you get an authority figure to shame him and abuse him in front of his peers...
Keep in mind that she was not being bullied and is not standing up for herself... there was no equal ground... one was incapable and powerless to defend against what was done to him... this is not like a kid standing up to a bully... maybe her heart was in the right place but her actions were misguided...
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-06-19 23:33:33
lol the add to the right of my reply box on this very site has "Are you being bullied? Find a safe learning environment. Online high school at no cost." ... That's how the ads work.. they pick up on key words and find advertising that are linked to it...
Phoenix.Ragmar
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By Phoenix.Ragmar 2012-06-20 00:01:26
I didnt read the link but I highly doubt they "beat" the bully child, I dont think anyone is in favor of physical pain lol. The teacher wasn't arrested so my assumption is there was no injury here ... There is already a lot wrong with a 5 year old bullying his peers and normal teaching techniques aren't going to cut it. But hey I guess we can put him in special ed where he becomes humiliated because now everyone thinks they're HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. I think most kids would rather have a line of kids thump em on the shoulder vs be in special ed lol. It isn't like the child is brain damaged and doesn't know right from wrong ... This is a cognative behavior that the child is choosing to engage in.
As far as adds go now its McDonald's lol guess we said child one to many times. God damn McDonalds generation!
Phoenix.Ragmar
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By Phoenix.Ragmar 2012-06-20 00:09:05
BTW half my adult life I have worked with the grown up version of these very types of children. Amazingly every single one of them has the same kinda BS parent who never held them accountable for their actions always making excuses for why little Billy did things that would make the hair on most parents neck stand up. Of the people I've worked with (all Sex Offenders and otherwise violent criminals btw, hundreds of them) all of them started off with the same warning signs in early childhood development.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-06-20 00:13:04
Yeah because a 5 y/o has a high tolerance for pain? if you line 20 kids up and tell em to hit someone else then it's going to hurt... a 5 y/o also can't process that situation the same... we don't send our kids to school to learn how to hit other kids... it is not the teachers role to do so and is not allowed to do so... the only reason she is not in prison is because she did not personally assault the child herself...
It's not about putting the kid in special ed... or embarassing him... its about getting him the help he needs to function productively...
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By Lakshmi.Sparthosx 2012-06-20 00:43:56
People always cry an eye for an aye makes the world go blind but what it really teaches is dont poke people in the eye or you get it right back. Anyone here like being poked in the eye? Any parent of a real bully should have DHS in their house figuring out what the real problem is. Parents have no accountability for the actions of their children these days and its patheitc. How bout some fines or even jail time for choosing to have a child and raising them to be drains on society. Go watch some MTV teen mom or bag girls club and tell me the parents who raised those (for lack of a better word) "people" shouldnt be in jail or atleast have to pay some extreme fines. Those very kids are the ones who will be drawing financial assistance their entire adult lives and then there is their kids who will grow up to repeat the cycle.
The jails are full already and you want to add shitty parents to the steaming pile? You know once these folks come out their lives would be ruined, the children would be thrown into the faceless systems of foster care and larger society would still have to pay for these folks meaning everyone loses.
How would you quantify "drain on society"? Are there tell-tale markings of being a shitty parent? How could we tell if this individual is knowingly causing a problem?
A single parent struggling to get by has a child yet lacks the time to take care of them and unknowingly creating a delinquent is not the same as a single parent who just doesn't care about raising a child because the kid was nothing more than an accessory to show off to friends back when it was cute/cuddly.
Lets not even forget the cases where the child themselves are just demonic even when the parents full efforts to avert this behavior.
tl;dr - It's not that simple.
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 Bismarck.Bloodrose
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By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2012-06-20 08:38:58
When i was in school, there were no programs or classes for the bullies to stop being bullies, or to learn to understand what they were doing to their victims. I've been through countless anger management programs ever since the "Zero Tolerance" *** was implemented, because the only meaning to zero tolerance for bullying, was recognizing it. I had to go through anger management because there were many times i had to physically defend myself, or became angry and infuriated, when the teachers and administration told me i was being punished for being bullied. These programs also did nothing to equip the victims with the tools to address these issues, except to "tell them to stop, walk away, or tell an adult"
When i talked to a police officer after my most pressing incident in grade 8, the officer had actually mentioned the best way to deal with bullies like this, is to have every victim come up to him or her at once, and let them know exactly how they felt - in words, so they werent alone, so the bully had to listen. It's more like an episode of Intervention. Teacher had the right idea, just did it wrong.
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By Sylph.Washburn 2012-06-20 09:32:56
I went to school mainly in Northeast Alabama. They still use corperal punishment (which at the parent's request can be omitted from the list of diceplinary option), but it worked great. If the teacher saw you treating like ***, causing a ruckus in class, skipping your work, or anything else, after a fair stern warning, you got a paddle to the *** out in the hallway. If you were a badass and the teacher was older or a lady that didnt have the physical strength to make an inpression with it, they'd call the football coach down to dish out the pain. All the paddles were supplied by the ag departments woodshop teacher who had a special R&D section for paddles. They used tape, drilled holes, tried different thicknesses etc.
The point being, if you were a ***, you got dealt with, and the statistics, if tracked, would show that at least the 7 years i went there, I only saw a handful of "in school suspensions" and no one got expelled. I think from 7th grade until graduation there was MAYBE 2 fights.
I stand by *** whoopins. Some parents are too pussy to whip their kids. Look at the change in overall behaviour over the past 60 years or so... That should speak for itself.
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By Fenrir.Moldtech 2012-06-20 09:52:53
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-06-20 09:54:38
From K-8th no one in my school got expelled and there was only one suspension... no one got their *** beat either...
The only real change in the last 60 years, in regards to bullying, is that it gets more press now...
 Leviathan.Syagin
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By Leviathan.Syagin 2012-06-20 09:55:32
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: »Yeah, it's hard to think of a title this late that will actually fit and is pertinent to the story.. Sue me <_< Quote: Parents become furious when their children are being bullied at school, right? Well, some teachers become infuriated as well. A Texas teacher apparently was fed up with the bullying at her school, so she ordered the kindergarten students to smack the classroom bully (Aiden). “The teacher at a suburban San Antonio school is accused of orchestrating the slugfest after a younger teaching colleague went to her last month seeking suggestions on how to discipline the 6-year-old, according to a police report from the Judson Independent School District.” Those two teachers at Salinas Elementary have been placed on paid administrative leave. However, the teacher who lined up those students to hit the bully will no longer work for that district. Aiden’s mother said she had no idea her child was a bully. “Neely said her son is not a problem child and that this was the first she’d heard of teachers having issues with him. She said she wants to make sure the teacher who ordered the hitting does not work in a classroom again.” link This story kinda leaves me at a loss, not the details, just I'm reminded of something and I'm conflicted.. I was bullied in school, I'm too quiet for my own good.. I'll leave it at that. There are 3 different lines of thinking running through my head right now. 1. Probably the most important.. I *** hate parents who say they didn't know.. I never buy that line. From experience as a kid myself and being a parent, if you really didn't know, then you need to be a better goddamn parent because it's not that hard to spot.. If you missed it, you probably just weren't looking hard enough (or refused to look for it to begin with). 2. Good for her. Not the decision I would have made, but you have to draw the line somewhere.. I've been there, schools teach you "just tell someone" but hell, that only makes things worse.. That whole line is *** and it's just meant to keep the school safe. It's their 'get out of jail free card'.. Could they take better preventive steps? You bet your *** they can.. There are any number of things that can be done. But hey, who cares, let's just give the bully detention for the 40th time, this year. Will they take those steps? No. Those steps cost money and they inconvenience the school officials, more forms to fill out at the end of the day and such. Not to mention every rule set fourth by the district, must be followed to the T, and every one ups the chances the principals and administrators are at a serious risk of losing their jobs. 3. If this were my kid, I would be pissed off royally.. My child isn't a bully, but he is still a trouble maker (he's one of those kids who never stop talking, never sit down, no matter what you do.. So as you can imagine, he gets in trouble in school a lot, and it is something we are both working diligently on correcting, rest assured he's not just getting the ignored and 'oh he'll grow out of it' type of treatment). He is my child, and he is quickly taking after me. STILL, it's not her place to dole out punishment as she sees fit. You can toss your teaching career in the trash and still have the same effect overall by simply (and completely silently) grabbing that child and putting them out of the classroom (at this age it would mean constant adult supervision, but it's not as if that would be hard to do..).
simple solution... stop raising weak children. they are not as fragile as you would like to belive ... I have 2 girls and I dare anyone to try and bully them.
Shiva.Kewitt
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By Shiva.Kewitt 2012-06-20 09:58:21
To protect both Teachers and Students.
There should be video carema in ever class room, and a few in the play ground. WHY. Most parents live in a bubble where their child could do no wrong.
Like the mother said she had no idea her child was a bully and if the teacher said anything to the mother she would likely brush it off without Video.
Fenrir.Camiie
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By Fenrir.Camiie 2012-06-20 10:06:22
I think the biggest problem in dealing with bullying is there is no single answer for every situation and no single effective deterrent for every bully. We try to squeeze all the bullies into a neat little mold and very few of them actually fit.
Some bullies DO need to be punched in the nose or be utterly humiliated to get the point. Others will actually "thrive" on that kind of treatment. Some will respond to physical or non-physical punishment from a particular authority figure, and some just do not care.
Each bully and each situation has to be taken on its own, and all reasonable options need to be available. Adults need to actually listen, care, and be willing and able to take the appropriate action. Then we might actually be able to solve these problems when they arise.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
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By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2012-06-20 10:12:22
I am not against corporal punishment.
I am against the liberal use thereof.
Judiciously used a few times to get the point across after a dangerous or otherwise terrible behavior is exhibited, it can be quite effective.
But I also know kids who grew up getting smacked in the mouth or on the *** for every little transgression and it numbs you to the act. By the time they're 12, they're just doing whatever they want, taking their smack and going about their business. They're used to it. It doesn't phase them. It's par for the course.
Similarly, when I got in trouble once in high school they gave be two days of in school suspension. You know how well that worked? I breezed through my classwork for the day and then read for six hours in peace and quiet.
I'd take ISS over regular classes 100% of the time, given the option.
Deterrent of bad/weak/violent/whatever behavior needs to be treated on an individual, case-by-case basis. Which is why it's difficult for teachers to be the one doing this. What may work for some will not work for others. Some kids require very specific guidance.
It really has to happen at home.
There really need to be tests and screenings in this country before you're allowed to have children.
Sadly, bringing a newborn into the world is considered an "inalienable right", therefore people are allowed to breed at will, regardless of whether or not they're just setting up a child for a life of abject failure.
As I said before and others have echoed, the teacher had the right idea, but went about it entirely in the wrong fashion. But I'm not sure there was a "good" response for the teacher to make, given the options available to today's educators.
This is part of the reason I left the education field before I got out of college. The world has changed too much in that regard. You're not there to educate, you're there to hold hands and babysit for eight hours a day. And you only "keep the peace" in so far as your administrators are satisfactorily convinced any poor behaviors by the children are not directly your fault.
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Yeah, it's hard to think of a title this late that will actually fit and is pertinent to the story.. Sue me <_<
Quote: Parents become furious when their children are being bullied at school, right? Well, some teachers become infuriated as well.
A Texas teacher apparently was fed up with the bullying at her school, so she ordered the kindergarten students to smack the classroom bully (Aiden).
“The teacher at a suburban San Antonio school is accused of orchestrating the slugfest after a younger teaching colleague went to her last month seeking suggestions on how to discipline the 6-year-old, according to a police report from the Judson Independent School District.”
Those two teachers at Salinas Elementary have been placed on paid administrative leave. However, the teacher who lined up those students to hit the bully will no longer work for that district.
Aiden’s mother said she had no idea her child was a bully. “Neely said her son is not a problem child and that this was the first she’d heard of teachers having issues with him. She said she wants to make sure the teacher who ordered the hitting does not work in a classroom again.” link
This story kinda leaves me at a loss, not the details, just I'm reminded of something and I'm conflicted.. I was bullied in school, I'm too quiet for my own good.. I'll leave it at that.
There are 3 different lines of thinking running through my head right now.
1. Probably the most important.. I fucking hate parents who say they didn't know.. I never buy that line. From experience as a kid myself and being a parent, if you really didn't know, then you need to be a better goddamn parent because it's not that hard to spot.. If you missed it, you probably just weren't looking hard enough (or refused to look for it to begin with).
2. Good for her. Not the decision I would have made, but you have to draw the line somewhere.. I've been there, schools teach you "just tell someone" but hell, that only makes things worse.. That whole line is bullshit and it's just meant to keep the school safe. It's their 'get out of jail free card'.. Could they take better preventive steps? You bet your ass they can.. There are any number of things that can be done. But hey, who cares, let's just give the bully detention for the 40th time, this year. Will they take those steps? No. Those steps cost money and they inconvenience the school officials, more forms to fill out at the end of the day and such. Not to mention every rule set fourth by the district, must be followed to the T, and every one ups the chances the principals and administrators are at a serious risk of losing their jobs.
3. If this were my kid, I would be pissed off royally.. My child isn't a bully, but he is still a trouble maker (he's one of those kids who never stop talking, never sit down, no matter what you do.. So as you can imagine, he gets in trouble in school a lot, and it is something we are both working diligently on correcting, rest assured he's not just getting the ignored and 'oh he'll grow out of it' type of treatment). He is my child, and he is quickly taking after me. STILL, it's not her place to dole out punishment as she sees fit. You can toss your teaching career in the trash and still have the same effect overall by simply (and completely silently) grabbing that child and putting them out of the classroom (at this age it would mean constant adult supervision, but it's not as if that would be hard to do..).
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