Voidwatch JP Shouts/Yells

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2010-06-21
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Voidwatch JP Shouts/Yells
 Bismarck.Ruizutatakau
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By Bismarck.Ruizutatakau 2012-04-23 12:45:37  
Ragnarok.Afania said: »
Some NM have nick name, for example, when B.rex was out, JP ppl call them マツコ, but I rarely see ppl use that name to /shout anymore. Now they just call Rex ブブリムのプリン.
The reason they called Botulus Rex マツコ(Matsuko) is in reference to the JP talent マツコ・デラックス (Matsuko Delux).
 Bismarck.Elanabelle
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2012-04-23 12:46:07  
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
I join JP shouts preferentially. NA shouts are always an AFK fest. JP shouts, can do 12 fights, no one AFKs, people stun dangerous TP moves ...

NA shouts someone AFKs for 5m+ every 10 minutes, no one stuns ... it's no wonder they think NA players suck.

I won't say there aren't some differences ... but really, Sylow, this is just another over-generalization hyperbolization that perpetuates the problem. Yeah?
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-23 13:18:29  
Bismarck.Elanabelle said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
I join JP shouts preferentially. NA shouts are always an AFK fest. JP shouts, can do 12 fights, no one AFKs, people stun dangerous TP moves ...

NA shouts someone AFKs for 5m+ every 10 minutes, no one stuns ... it's no wonder they think NA players suck.

I won't say there aren't some differences ... but really, Sylow, this is just another over-generalization hyperbolization that perpetuates the problem. Yeah?

I'm speaking from experience. Yes, there are good and bad parties on both ends, but the probability of a JP alliance going smoothly is much higher than a not-run-by-me NA alliance.
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 Bahamut.Meaikidou
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By Bahamut.Meaikidou 2012-04-23 13:19:16  
I can only speak for Bahamut server, but as an Eng. speaker, I reply to JP VW shouts all the time and have only gotten invites if they were 17/18 and needed a COR.(they will usually use Auto-translate if this is the case and they are willing to invite anyone) I don't really care what they're fighting, just want to do something with my time online.

Other than that I never have gotten a <<no thanks>> or a <<i'm sorry>> they just plain ignore you on our server, yet, I have noticed that many JP's do join our ENG shouts and we are always accommodating to them.

I share your frustration OP.
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-04-23 13:20:03  
I'd love to get in on JP groups, just because I don't ever have to speak besides listing off procs. I'm always the one who has to explain ***to someone, somewhere. Never get invited though. :/
 Bahamut.Charlot
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By Bahamut.Charlot 2012-04-23 13:23:01  
Bahamut.Vagrua said: »
I appreciate your thoughts Charlot, but if any JP/ENG ffxiaher has any knowledge to share; I'm all open ears. I would like to think that not all JPs are close-minded to working with others besides their own. I can imagine explaining VW to a new player to be frustrating for them, but most people that do VW probably have it down by now.

I don't think my post said that Japanese are close-minded. But when I'm in VW most of the time I write in English faster than auto-translate and depending on the PUG time is of the essence. Now, I haven't VW'd with randoms in a LONG time as I'm out of stones again and after buying hundreds of voiddust for Pil, so PUG's could be different, I can only speak of my experience.

And I have people asking me what the hints mean in /tells even now and how the 1 3 5 system works. There are always new people coming into voidwatch.

I'm not saying to not try and join the shouts, just that is what the Japanese people have told us that is what to expect from those shouts.
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-23 14:15:41  
A few things:

1.) JPs tend to have the exact jobs they're seeking listed in their search comment (サチコ). Notice the OP:

Quote:
[04:30:45] Tarmi : VWコンシュ カヒライス8戦いきませんか〜? 3/18
[04:31:21] Phoenix.Tigga[Lower Jeuno] : VWロンフォカブト6戦 追加募集:戦吟さん 16/18です
[04:26:52] Odin.Yuuchi[Lower Jeuno] : VWチーリン2周行きませんか?サチコ参照で募集です14/18
[04:19:16] Ragnarok.Korutopi[Port Jeuno] : VW水晶龍いきます。サチコメのジョブのみ募集です。参加希望の方武器など添えてテルください。14/18
[04:06:42] Siren.Pleiades[Port Jeuno] : VWゼオルム インプ連戦いきます サチコ参照で、可能ジョブ添えてテルください 13/18

If you respond to them and don't tell them a job that's in their /seacom, they're not going to respond back because you didn't follow their simple instruction.

Sometimes they'll have specific requirements e.g. (赤 『スタン』 -- RDM - "Stunner" ) listed too.

2.) A little politeness goes a long way

I'll often introduce myself, politely, in Japanese. I'll say "Nice to meet you, I'm a foreigner, but I speak some Japanese. I can read the characters for weaknesses." I've never been turned down at this point for a JP shout when I had a job they were seeking.

Often (about half the time) even though I'm able to read Kanji and they know that I can understand weaknesses, the leader will specify that I"m a foreigner and ask people to use auto-translate if there's a weakness specific to me.

3.) Manners

Upon joining a JP alliance you'll notice a spam of variations of よろしく (Yoroshiku). It's a greeting. When someone joins the alliance, you should say "Yoroshiku onegai shimasu" even if you can't do it in Japanese characters.

At the end of the PT, you'll notice people saying おつかれさま, お疲れ様でした, or some variation of it (Otsukaresama deshita). This means "Thank you for all your hard work." (It's traditionally said to your coworkers when going home from the office.)

4.) Game

JP players expect that if you're joining an alliance for a fight you've read up on it and know what to expect from it, and know what you're supposed to do already. They expect that you know what your triggers are. They expect that you have all weapon skills / spells ready and raring to go. They expect that you have appropriate gear for whatever you're doing ready to go. They expect that you will join for however many fights they were shouting for. NA players are particularly notorious or not doing this. Stereotype or truth, JP players are usually worried that NA players are going to leave halfway through the # of fights they had specified in their shout or search comment.
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 Caitsith.Sai
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By Caitsith.Sai 2012-04-23 14:18:56  
So basically, if you want to join JP, learn JP.

Cool thanks.
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-04-23 14:22:45  
I don't know Japanese and I greet them with Yoroshikudes~ as well. It's extending a hand to make them feel comfortable, regardless of the situation. Knowing a culture will help you integrate, or at the very least function within, better. Sylow makes good points.
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 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-23 14:23:23  
It won't hurt you to learn a few words and a few characters in Japanese, no.

If you've got a problem with that, Sai, well, yeah, I can see why they wouldn't invite you with that attitude.
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 Bahamut.Potorim
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By Bahamut.Potorim 2012-04-23 14:28:38  
Not just learn jp, u must think about ur manners with them.
Lost the count of how many times ppl just get wht they want in VW and just leave saying its an ls event or whatever, they dont even wait till the end of the run.
Also, they really remember names, so if u screw with them one time, thats it.
 Sylph.Zenrin
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By Sylph.Zenrin 2012-04-23 14:35:32  
Caitsith.Sai said: »
So basically, if you want to join JP, learn JP.

Cool thanks.

Problem?!
 Ramuh.Kailana
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By Ramuh.Kailana 2012-04-23 14:38:03  
Bahamut.Meaikidou said: »
I can only speak for Bahamut server, but as an Eng. speaker, I reply to JP VW shouts all the time and have only gotten invites if they were 17/18 and needed a COR.(they will usually use Auto-translate if this is the case and they are willing to invite anyone) I don't really care what they're fighting, just want to do something with my time online.

Other than that I never have gotten a <<no thanks>> or a <<i'm sorry>> they just plain ignore you on our server, yet, I have noticed that many JP's do join our ENG shouts and we are always accommodating to them.

I share your frustration OP.

This is what I get too. I used to have a friend named Tenchi, he could speak their language for me and tell me what they were saying. Every single party he'd point out some way they were making fun of us. Then he'd respond in their language basically saying "we can read what you're saying" and they'd shut up.

From what I'm reading I'm guessing Bahamut and Ramuh got the short end of the stick with the JP population. I've tried many, many, many, many times to get in on JP shouts for a variety of things, and every single time I get a "No Thanks" "English", a "Goodbye" or nothing at all in response.

As far as people saying JP players never afk or leave till it's done, that's a crock. I dunno how many times I made a group and had a few JP in there and get halfway through only to see "I'm sleepy" "Goodbye" or something to that effect.

I've met plenty of JP players that were really good, and met a bunch that really stank. As far as I can tell, they're just as good as we are, and there's some that will work both sides of the language barrier but the majority will not and it sucks. :/

Leaves me with a question though. Why do they translate half the shout if they don't want english players? o_o
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 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-23 15:53:05  
JP players will GTFO a crappy group. (That's what I'm sleepy means).
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 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-04-23 15:56:06  
I find, 9/10 times, I can rely on a JP to do their job, and more by contrast to their English speaking peers. Can't tell you how many times I've seen a JP RNG pull a clutch Dagger proc just when we needed it. I remember their names too, and they always get a spot when I see them again.
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-23 16:04:56  
Yeah, that's the big thing. There are rotten eggs in the JP barrell, too, but they're in general much more reliable.
 Caitsith.Sai
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By Caitsith.Sai 2012-04-23 16:06:57  
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
It won't hurt you to learn a few words and a few characters in Japanese, no.

If you've got a problem with that, Sai, well, yeah, I can see why they wouldn't invite you with that attitude.

Yes, I can see how the JP could know my attitude towards learning their language by a /tell like,

-Hello!- -Ranger- / -Samurai- / -Thief- / -Ninja- -Do you need it?- -Thank You!-

Your post makes no sense.
 Asura.Tot
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By Asura.Tot 2012-04-23 16:10:42  
sorry if this was talked about, i didn't back read but, why do jp players put times in their VW shouts? ie: "name" 21:00-00:00 >info in jp ect...
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-23 16:11:24  
They probably had those jobs listed as full in their /seacom :)
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-04-23 16:11:30  
[Hello!] etc. doesn't differentiate you from a typical English speaking player. Taking the extra step means you're taking it a little bit more seriously, and that very well may be the cultural tipping point for their accepting you into the alliance.
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-23 16:11:51  
Asura.Tot said: »
sorry if this was talked about, i didn't back read but, why do jp players put times in their VW shouts? ie: "name" 21:00-00:00 >info in jp ect...

JPs will shout for events that will occur later, and occasionally specify an end time.
 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-23 16:13:48  
Actually, for big events JPs will sometimes shout to fill slots for events that will occur tomorrow ... and people actually show up!
 Caitsith.Sai
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By Caitsith.Sai 2012-04-23 16:15:40  
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
They probably had those jobs listed as full in their /seacom :)

Last JP I bothered responding to was a Kalstraux that was @3 when I /t them. Tried again @5. Never bothered to even say -No Thanks- so I dont waste my time with them anymore.
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-04-23 16:17:16  
I get where you're coming from. I think it's downright rude when they don't respond, but at the same time they might think it's downright rude that we respond with jobs that they aren't asking for. Give-take, I guess... but they've been doing the no-response thing for years. Ask them if they want a party, no response, and they're even zoning through Jeuno or running around and I can see them. Culture.
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 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-23 16:17:36  
That's fine, more slots for those of us that put forth the effort to interface culturally.
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 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-23 16:19:35  
Cerberus.Tikal said: »
I get where you're coming from. I think it's downright rude when they don't respond, but at the same time they might think it's downright rude that we respond with jobs that they aren't asking for. Give-take, I guess... but they've been doing the no-response thing for years. Ask them if they want a party, no response, and they're even zoning through Jeuno or running around and I can see them. Culture.

Even if you just say <hello> <____> <do you need it?> <japanese> <i can speak a little>

regardless of how much you speak, they respond (and don't expect you to actually understand anything in japanese)
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-04-23 16:23:30  
I personally wouldn't be comfortable with saying that, since I can't speak or understand any of it. I only recognize yoroshiku for the most part. I also don't go out of my way to translate JP shouts unless I'm uber bored and looking for something to do, but I rarely, rarely ask to join.
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 Caitsith.Sai
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By Caitsith.Sai 2012-04-23 16:25:58  
Its unfortunate that SE does not provide the option of region specific servers.

Its obvious that there are plenty of people from all sides that would rather not play at all then have to interact with people of different backgrounds.

It would be nice to give them a place to go so the rest of us that would interact arent forced to deal with the many *** who wont.
 Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2012-04-23 16:26:51  
No, it really wouldn't, because we'd be neglected. Region specific servers is a can of worms you don't want.

EDIT: Plus, I've met a lot of people and had a great many friendships that cross borders that I wouldn't give up for the world.
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 Bismarck.Sylow
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By Bismarck.Sylow 2012-04-23 16:28:50  
Anyway, I'm not saying that it's right that JPs will ignore English players, but it is understandable that it happens when (1.) NA players are viewed as being (a.) rude according to JP customs (b.) and less reliable than JP players and (2.) JP culture is naturally more xenophobic (3.) JPs who know English are often afraid to use it because they'll make a mistake (this is a linguistic difference between English and Japanese speakers. When someone speaks broken English, the language structure supports "mistakes" more so it's easier to understand, but Japanese is structured differently so grammatical/"spelling" errors are much more likely to make a huge difference in/completely destroy the meaning).

I'm just offering advice on how to get around it. Put forth a little bit of effort, and you'll be able to get in just fine.
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