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SCH>BLM after update? . .
 Caitsith.Pebe
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 47
By Caitsith.Pebe 2012-03-26 13:52:57
Leviathan.Snakeslice said: »Thanks to this thing called a subjob, blm/sch now has access to all obis bar thunder, and sch also loses its ability to change on the fly "light arts" argument. Other than no access to rapture, the same argument for sch's high nuke once in a while, blm still has everything it needs to cure. If you compare one nuke or cure then sure, sch will win, but how often do you fight something that goes down in one hit?
I'm not so sure about this. When sch is in light arts it has alot of crap to do, blm/sch gets nowhere near the stratedgem/stratedgem speed of recharged needed to successfully main heal as good as a sch in lights arts. EX:
Perpetuance Adloquimga
Perpetuance Phalanxga
Stoneskinga
Rapture Cure IVs
Perpetuance Hastes(I like doing this because i am lazy with hastes cycles)
etc
Not to mention blm/sch doesn't even get haste and phalanx. Although you have a point with blm/sch getting storms i forgot to take that into consideration. Although I still think a party of blm/rdm with sch for support(storm giving etc) would be better,.
Valefor.Slore
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 190
By Valefor.Slore 2012-03-26 13:53:10
BLM will be making a comeback for dmg with Meteor. Mark my words now 6 blms same cast of meteor, enemity douse hate if needed wait, recast, if its still alive after that your doing something wrong
 Quetzalcoatl.Vileplume
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 125
By Quetzalcoatl.Vileplume 2012-03-26 13:53:44
OP: What 'Converse MP' are you talking about that makes it seem that SCH is so godly against a BLM nuking? The only viable option I see that is relevant is Dark Arts (10% MP reduction), and if BLM wanted they could go /sch if it really mattered so greatly.
If you are talking about using Parsimony for your nukes, then your nukes will not out-damage a BLM's nukes.
By Barleycup 2012-03-26 13:54:16
10k nukes in lolAbyssea are easily possible by SCH every nuke.
This is true even without the Pandemonium Warden Atma.
MM/Beyond/Ultimate atmas + Obi, Twilight Cape + Good SCH gear.
but while using the 1st ja's>nuke for 10k>waiting for next ja/nuke...
blm gets 4-5 5-6k spells off....AND /sch for hailstorm +obi/twilight cape lol
BLM/SCH can get off 8.5k Blizzard V in Abyssea.
SCH/RDM can get off 10k Blizzard V in Abyssea.
Both at 80% Fast Cast
.......
Valefor.Slore
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 190
By Valefor.Slore 2012-03-26 13:54:41
not that that applies to all situations thats just my view from reading updates where this strategy will be the new blm burn party
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 996
By Asura.Kaisuko 2012-03-26 13:54:59
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »The number of people in this thread that think either SCH or BLM damage matters just tickles me. one of the few times i will agree with you. Blm and sch are mainly used for procs where blm has it's benefit of stun and sch has it's benefit of embrava. With that argument you are missing the the thread's title.. "after update" i think means Legion where procs do not exist...so i guess we wont be seen BLMs at all in there VW will still be there after update. New VW at that.
Caitsith.Pebe
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 47
By Caitsith.Pebe 2012-03-26 13:56:02
Your array of nukes becomes ess efficient when you run out of stratedgems(i can never spell this right). BLMs retains the same efficieny. Sure Stratedgems recharge moderatly fast now, but if your spamming nukes you will most likely be without stratedgems for a good 30 seconds at one point. Also, if you are spamming nukes at this rate you will probably die from enmity where as blm will just Enmity Douse. Like I said both have their place. Sch's main place is High damage over a long course of time(Via helix and controlled nuking) while blm nuking is more of a endless barrage of nukes and then resetting hate with enmity douse. I didn't really know how to word blm's style correctly, so this is the best I got. Also remember that as a SCH you have other duties than just nuking. A good sch will maintain storms on all blms and klimaform as well. So you need to be even more conservative with your stratedgems.
No.
A bad SCH or rather a too gimp to compete with the BLM SCH will Acession the BLMs. A good SCH will Acession + Perpetuation weather (with Empy gloves) at start of fights and then to hell with the BLMs after that.
SCH is not a BLM support. As for barrage of nukes, you are missing the point. 80% FAST CAST is the cap for all casting. SCH can reach this cap. . .,i dont know how to make it clearer lol.
And then you will die from pulling to much hate.
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-03-26 13:57:07
No.
A bad COR or rather a too gimp to compete with the DD COR will use rolls on the DDs. A good COR will use rolls at start of fights and then to hell with the DDs after that.
COR is not a DD support.
 Leviathan.Snakeslice
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 169
By Leviathan.Snakeslice 2012-03-26 13:57:20
Leviathan.Snakeslice said: »Thanks to this thing called a subjob, blm/sch now has access to all obis bar thunder, and sch also loses its ability to change on the fly "light arts" argument. Other than no access to rapture, the same argument for sch's high nuke once in a while, blm still has everything it needs to cure. If you compare one nuke or cure then sure, sch will win, but how often do you fight something that goes down in one hit?
I'm not so sure about this. When sch is in light arts it has alot of crap to do, blm/sch gets nowhere near the stratedgem/stratedgem speed of recharged needed to successfully main heal as good as a sch in lights arts. EX:
Perpetuance Adloquimga
Perpetuance Phalanxga
Stoneskinga
Rapture Cure IVs
Perpetuance Hastes(I like doing this because i am lazy with hastes cycles)
etc
Not to mention blm/sch doesn't even get haste and phalanx. Although you have a point with blm/sch getting storms i forgot to take that into consideration. Although I still think a party of blm/rdm with sch for support(storm giving etc) would be better,.
Ehh it is true with all the buffs, I was thinking solely cures.
 Cerberus.Kvazz
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5345
By Cerberus.Kvazz 2012-03-26 13:57:43
Have'nt this "fight" been going on since level 75? >_>
Main reason people invite black mages to a fight (usually, if it's not for procs) is for Stun.
So yeah..
They'r both excellent nukers, why not just leave it at that?
By Barleycup 2012-03-26 13:58:25
No.
A bad COR or rather a too gimp to compete with the DD COR will use rolls on the DDs. A good COR will use rolls at start of fights and then to hell with the DDs after that.
COR is not a DD support.
Well Done!
I can change people words into infammatory remarks too, but then i'm not 5 years old.
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 264
By Bahamut.Lilsanchez 2012-03-26 13:58:48
Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
[+]
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-03-26 14:01:05
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »The number of people in this thread that think either SCH or BLM damage matters just tickles me. one of the few times i will agree with you. Blm and sch are mainly used for procs where blm has it's benefit of stun and sch has it's benefit of embrava. With that argument you are missing the the thread's title.. "after update" i think means Legion where procs do not exist...so i guess we wont be seen BLMs at all in there VW will still be there after update. New VW at that. precisely, procs are still necessary for alot of the VW mobs, while yes they wont be tied to the treasure drops in the new voidwatch doesnt mean that you dont need temp items. The old Voidwatch fights are still relevant because heavy metal plates will continue to be in demand for a long time.
By Barleycup 2012-03-26 14:01:19
Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this.
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-03-26 14:02:31
Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. Over time, a SCH can compete in DOT nuking, but for blitz nuking, BLM wins hands down.
[+]
Phoenix.Bomber
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 457
By Phoenix.Bomber 2012-03-26 14:03:42
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »The number of people in this thread that think either SCH or BLM damage matters just tickles me. one of the few times i will agree with you. Blm and sch are mainly used for procs where blm has it's benefit of stun and sch has it's benefit of embrava. With that argument you are missing the the thread's title.. "after update" i think means Legion where procs do not exist...so i guess we wont be seen BLMs at all in there VW will still be there after update. New VW at that. True enough ...but i assume OP is talking about Legion only cuz BLM/SCH took SCH's place in VW proc-wise idk where else he can nuke on SCH w/o delay not giving a *** about buffing his LS buddies or party members
By Barleycup 2012-03-26 14:04:10
Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. Over time, a SCH can compete in DOT nuking, but for blitz nuking, BLM wins hands down.
How? if SCH and BLM are both at 80% FC cap and SCH nukes harder per nuke?
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-03-26 14:04:19
Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. just because sch doesnt have c6+ doesnt make it half a whm, while yes after the update sch will be a very relevant healer right now they have spells such as regenga 5 which is a VERY nice HoT.
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-03-26 14:05:19
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. just because sch doesnt have c6+ doesnt make it half a whm, while yes after the update sch will be a very relevant healer right now they have spells such as regenga 5 which is a VERY nice HoT. No, but lack of cureskin and only 1 (maybe 2 now) real cure does.
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-03-26 14:06:16
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »The number of people in this thread that think either SCH or BLM damage matters just tickles me. one of the few times i will agree with you. Blm and sch are mainly used for procs where blm has it's benefit of stun and sch has it's benefit of embrava. With that argument you are missing the the thread's title.. "after update" i think means Legion where procs do not exist...so i guess we wont be seen BLMs at all in there VW will still be there after update. New VW at that. True enough ...but i assume OP is talking about Legion only cuz BLM/SCH took SCH's place in VW proc-wise idk where else he can nuke on SCH w/o delay not giving a *** about buffing his LS buddies or party members the increase in fighting potential of your party translates into the increase of fighting potential from the sch. Very much like cor being much more beneficial than rng because of it's rolls.
By Wardeniii 2012-03-26 14:07:02
I do quite love the threads that pop up during maintenance. We didn't even have to click on the thread to know what this discussion was going to turn into.
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-03-26 14:08:00
Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. Over time, a SCH can compete in DOT nuking, but for blitz nuking, BLM wins hands down.
How? if SCH and BLM are both at 80% FC cap and SCH nukes harder per nuke? Ok, for starters, how in the world are you at 80% FC when you finished casting in your nuking set?
Why are you so obsessed with repeating this?
Also, BLM doesn't have to mess with JA delay, will not run out of Stratagems, and has more nukes to cycle through. If you are nuking as fast as you can, T5/T4 is not enough no matter how much FC you have.
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-03-26 14:08:14
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. just because sch doesnt have c6+ doesnt make it half a whm, while yes after the update sch will be a very relevant healer right now they have spells such as regenga 5 which is a VERY nice HoT. No, but lack of cureskin and only 1 (maybe 2 now) real cure does. im not saying sch would be better than whm, since if sch ever got cureskin sch will hit #1 spot on healing. I'm just taking it as 50% as useful as a whm as it more or less being completely pointless to heal when even before the update that is not the case.
Phoenix.Bomber
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 457
By Phoenix.Bomber 2012-03-26 14:08:24
Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. Over time, a SCH can compete in DOT nuking, but for blitz nuking, BLM wins hands down.
How? if SCH and BLM are both at 80% FC cap and SCH nukes harder per nuke? Bcuz ALL BLM has to do to keep zerging is swap staff while your SCH changes staff,obi,weather,re-use JAs to buff nuke and rebuff yourself else youll pull hate and MPK etc etc
By Barleycup 2012-03-26 14:08:25
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. just because sch doesnt have c6+ doesnt make it half a whm, while yes after the update sch will be a very relevant healer right now they have spells such as regenga 5 which is a VERY nice HoT.
Regenga V is very very nice indeed.
How ever SCH main drawback before this update was that it was defenceless in healing DDs who had just suffered 1k + AoE damaage,
WHM could cure them back to health easily and not grab hate.
SCH can Accession Rapture Cure IV, but would immediately thereafter grab hate off anyone and anything.
SCH and RDM will never replace WHM at healing, but this update will take them closer.
Again this is apeaking as a WHM RDM SCH @ 99.
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2012-03-26 14:10:20
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Bahamut.Lilsanchez said: »Regardless, SCH is much more fun. Much more versatile. Has highest peak damage nukes, but not over all DPS. SCH is sexier, SCH is 75% WHM and 75% BLM combined with a 150% performance output. They are both great depending on the situation. Everyone get your head out of your ***.
SCH is only 50% a WHM. Maybe after this "Cureupdate" thing will change.
Id wager heavily that SCH does more DOT in any situation than a BLM. Until someone explains to me how a BLM is to do more DOT then i will continue to beleive this. just because sch doesnt have c6+ doesnt make it half a whm, while yes after the update sch will be a very relevant healer right now they have spells such as regenga 5 which is a VERY nice HoT. No, but lack of cureskin and only 1 (maybe 2 now) real cure does. im not saying sch would be better than whm, since if sch ever got cureskin sch will hit #1 spot on healing. I'm just taking it as 50% as useful as a whm as it more or less being completely pointless to heal when even before the update that is not the case. 
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2012-03-26 14:10:31
Ok, for starters, how in the world are you at 80% FC when you finished casting in your nuking set? thissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Quote: Also, BLM doesn't have to mess with JA delay i hope you mean cooldown not animation delay
With SE's spoken acknowledgment that future contact will not be over-reliant on proccing (thank god . . ) will this mean that SCH>BLM for most content?..
Lets have a look at Pro's of each:
SCH/RDM:
> 15-20% more damage Per nuke than BLM (even BLM casting Thundaja)
> Can reach 80% FC now with Rubeus, so DoT is significantly better than BLM.
> Better MP Management.
> SCH Helices bump up DoT even more.
> Can quickly switch to C4 set to heal for 800+ (BLM wont have Healing Magic Skill unless they /SCH)
> Access to Kaustra (not that i ever use this tbh, might be useful in Legion) and Embrava.
> With FC set up and Haste no longer need to have "Filler Spell" inbetween spamming Thunder/Blizzard V and IV".
BLM:
>Stun.
>Enmity Douse.
>Manafont very useful for emergencies.
>....
. .Are we to see the advent of everyone jumping on SCH bandwagon?
Food for thought indeed. :)
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