Best Dagger For Thief

Yeah..? It is stupid easy to level/gear jobs now.

this really only applies though to a very few voidwatch nm's though.. at this current point in time most voidwatch NM's have a bit of breathing room now for people to come on jobs they don't normally come on. Sure you may be quicker on paper, but id rather take an extra 2~ mins to kill said mob and come on a job i like.

Also its pretty safe to say that most people who do voidwatch (on quetz) arent all concerned about time... i mean IF THEY WERE.. you think i'd be able to get a cure to wake me up from sleep, or a stona from the white mages

right now thats my biggeset issue >.> slacking whm's

Who needs intelligible rebuttals when you can just say "lolno" and walk away without justifying your silly position.

That's fine I do not really feel the need to continue this because clearly we won't come to the same conclusion on how to do things. You seem to like to come in and think that you're right about everything and everyone else is wrong. I guess that's fine. I go by what works for me and it seems to be ok so far. (so it seems?) I'd like to think that I know how to play my job but I guess I clearly don't. I havent seen anything constructive come from your posts so please, do correct and educate me on why what I'm doing is wrong instead of just telling me so.

It seems that more and more people with your mentality and attitude have appeared since abyssea and reminds me of why I play mainly with JP now. I won't be able to whatever response you have for a couple of days. (which im sure will be insulting or demeaning me in some way shape or form)

So please if you can spare the elitism attitude of "I'm a badass and only work with the best instead of working with what ive got" and show me how to play thf with math to explain everything to me I'd greatly appreciate it.

I mean you do have a mandau or twashtar or whatever it is you're showing me right? Unless straight numbers should be sufficient to explain, Id be glad to learn. Thanks in advance

Some VW NM's are a huge pain in the *** to find people for. The skeleton for Athos's gloves used to take me an hour to complete around 12/12. Once people get their ***they are gone. So its hard to keep it going for that long of shouting... people come up with excuses "sry g2g my grandma fell up stairs" so I just fill with whatever, making sure I have the important proc jobs lol.

Acknowledged, but with how easy it is to make money, and how commonplace Empyrean and Relic weapons are, even pickup groups are tolerating substantially less inadequacy. When you yourself have had very little difficulty making your character noticeably better by doing something as simply as farming Dynamis daily, you can't help but see all of other, lazier pickup people for what they really are. As much as I don't care for the lack of disparity between those with the best and those with the worst, it's certainly has the benefit of exposing bad players.

I honestly think that's a crap comparison, most of the time i do more damage then the "Heavy DD's" in VW. And don't even get me started on the damage output inside and outside of abyssea. I think you are infact running with crappy people with crappy couple day gear, find a thf that knows what they are doing then eat your words...

So in summary,

1) Showing you through verifiable information that, by using very simple addition, you were doing something blatantly wrong is unhelpful.

2) You hate elitists, so you play with xenophobes.

3) Bro, it works for me, lay off.

4) You don't have these weapons, so you can't discuss them intelligibly.

Sounds good. Bye.

god that skeleton is a ***...

Or maybe you're the one running with crappy people who don't know how to play the "heavy DDs"

All I can say is Math doesn't lie.

Obviously Mandau + Praxidikai (DA+11) daggers are the best option, and anyone thinking otherwise is HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE--at least until legion.

Uh-huh, that's exactly it. Although in all honestly kinda hard to avoid when 90% of the general population is just a bunch of re-re's who think they are pimp ***cause they got gear in a couple of days and spammed some weak *** Aby mob...

NotSureIfSerious.jpg

There's no reason to believe that there are a greater number of competent thieves than any heavy-hitting damage dealer. If anything, logic would dictate the contrary, as those who recognize its shortcomings as a job are far more likely to arrive at more logical conclusions regarding their equipment and overall playstyle.

That said, anyone who is a competent thief would be just as competent if they were to cease their stubbornness and level and gear things that are undeniably more appropriate for more difficult battles. Despite the mindset that's managed to cling to the edges of life amongst the forum-going community for years and years, competency isn't limited to certain jobs. If you're a good warrior, you're certainly a good thief, and probably a good white mage.

All well and good, but if i dont enjoy playing whm, i for damn sure am not going to level it.

Theres a line between some hippy notion that "I can be good at everything if i try hard enough on (insert chosen job)" and "Your a selfish *** that needs to get off their high horse and level a 'useful' job or else not participate in (insert event)"

Just because someone doesnt level a 'more useful' job doesnt make them selfish evil stuborn jackasses. Nor does any amount of rainbows and beleiving in the heart of the job make a job do something it cant. Mingo, you are a little to far to 1 side of the spectrum. Most people live somewhere closer to the middle.

There are a multitude of reasons that people dont level and gear every job even if they are competent and good people. And its not to stick it to the man, or because they are to stubborn to.

The extreme example was for the sake of making a point. I don't think every samurai should level white mage, but when you refuse to level anything other than thief and begin scratching your head when people look at you funny, you're being foolish.

Regardless, that particular point came and went. That post was directed at his assertion that I clearly just "haven't met enough good thieves". There are no "good <job>". You're a good player or you're not.

This. So very much.

To an extent. No offense but it doesn't take much to be a good warrior. I do completely agree with you that if you are good at the game then you can be good at most/any job. But i will also say that I don't see someone being good at warrior jumping into Pup and being good. since that involves a lot more.

A competent human can master the job with five minutes of down time and Wikipedia access. Especially when one considers that maneuvers are more often than not detrimental to one's performance.

Point is taken, but 5 is a little exaggerated. If you move to a drastically different job class, there is still a learning curve about basic mechanics. A whm main probably doesnt know wtf Pdif, FTP, Fstr, stp, accuracy forumlas or anything else that youd need to make informed and intelligent decisions. Ground zero is still a bit of work. If someone just says "heres your gearsets" premade and you just write the macros, sure but I hardly call that a 'mastery of the job'.

Basic competency to perform a jobs role at a functional level can be done very quickly. I leveled up my dual boxed rdm mule and was able to cure and haste myself 'competently' but it was a while before I really got a handle on what all this new fangled magic mess was and how it worked well enough that I could confidently create my own gear sets without having someone else tell me. And there are still mechanical skills. I am a FAAAR better dual boxer now than I was 5 minutes after my rdm mule hit cap level. I react to situations much better. I make better decisions when its crunch time and make them faster. Learning to make better decisions requires you to not only understand the mechanics of the job and the tools of the job, but know them well enough to make quick and accurate decisions about when and what tools to use in dynamic situations without hesitations and the foresight to prepare your gear/macros/equips beforehand so that you can act swiftly with efficient gear once a decision is made. That you dont get in 5 min.

*Competent in a related class in 5 min? Sure. I could level any DD and be able to play it very competently because I understand melee intricately.

*Competent in an unrelated class in a couple days? Sure. If me Mr Meree Onry can learn a mage, anyone can :P

Mastery in that frame? No way. I am no master rdm.

Mastery implies nuanced understanding and that does still take some time.

Edit: Mastery implies APPLIED nuanced understanding.

If by "master" you mean "engage" and "hit WS-macro", then yes, you're right.

Nothing beats experience on the job though, no matter how smart you are.
At some point you just know what to do in which situation and do it automatically, to some degree.

Pup thread now?

LolPup.

/thread.

I disagree.

Why is that?

In my book "mastering" means: knowing all (or most) aspects of something.

And without actually doing it, you only know the half of it.
That is not up to opinion either, it's a fact.

Plenty of people that have jobs that think they're good at it, don't carry PDT/MDT, don't know how to use temps properly, don't bother to proc despite eminent wipe. Those people are the people you think that would be better than someone that knows about these things.

Oh, and you can't say "In my book" if it's not an opinion, sorry.

1. you can say "In my book" and it not be an opinion. (but that is getting technical) and

2. i think he was saying just because you read how to play a job doesnt make you a master. you actually have to do what you read. And i might also mention that copying a great player doesn't make you great. It means you can copy someone.

But being able to evolve/adapt to situations that you haven't read about is what makes someone a great player.

Actually, that's not what I think.

If YOU were new to job X, YOU would not play it as well as if YOU would have played it for a while already.

Your initial knowledge + experience > your initial knowledge alone.
Does that sounds better to you?

I'm not comparing good vs bad ppl. Bad ppl you can trump naked, drunk and half asleep, no question there.

Edit: Bolded part was meant for Austarrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Yes, because you made it sound like anyone with prior experience is by default, better than someone that actually knows what they're doing. And almost all melee jobs play exactly the same, the only thing you'd need to get experience for would be individual events, not jobs.