Best Dagger For Thief

Sounds good. Thanx. Will give me something to do in the few hours I have to spare a week now..

I currently have 2x STR daggers and I would like to ask if having 85 twashter/STR will outdo my current combo.

Will stacked Rudra's Storm outdo Evi/Exten inside/outside abby ?


I also wonder would upgrading to twashter as your first Empy is wise decision when your yet to try high end events ( since thf is not currently being using there although i enjoy it alot ). Rng/thf/blu are my current jobs that i would consider main and I have yet to start any event other then abby/VW.

Note: Its unfortunate but i would not be able to obtain any relic at my current playtime so that's out of reach as of now.

Appreciate your input, thanks

Would say don't even bother with twash unless you plan to 90-99 it. Also as far as relics go, you don't have to invest more than 2 hours at a time to achieve a relic. You can make a relic in about 3 months solo if you have 2 hours to play daily. I would highly suggest stearing away from twashtar and focus on weapons that will actually change your main jobs performance. Rudra is a toy, if you're serious about thf, try for mandau. That will change your damage drastically.

mandu is best dagger with off hand str dagger isnt bad

Thanks for the replay,

Actually I should have said 90 Twashter instead of 85 as its very achievable with the current resource we have, we usually able to finish an empy weapon in 2 weekends (4/5 sessions).

Also would you able to comment on the my last question regarding choosing a Twashter over Gandiva/Almace.

As for relic, with two jobs at the moment I'm barely able to squeeze in few hours of playtime each day. And being just back into the game I would like to delay that thought for the first few months at-least :)

Gandiva is a toy. On anything that matters you want your RNG to be using either Yoichinoyumi or Annihilator (Or possibly Armageddon).

Almace is absolutely fantastic for Blu. Twashtar is pretty decent for thf. Twashtar does become the best offhand dagger if you 99 it however.

My Setup: Fodder -> Qilin XML readings. Results: Using this Evis Set: AC Down. Unstacked. And This Haste Set:EDIT: Adding 2 lower Dagger Options:
Fixed >.>

not sure if i can follow you Otomis

For the last edit, i think you meant 290 instead of 390 on Aluh/Cor combo

but why compare Relic dagger-offhand combinations when only useing evis WS, no SA, no TA, no stacked WS's? And not SA and TA Mercys?

I would just suggest biding time....and then work on a relic. Maybe make an almace or armageddon to 90. Those will help ya alot for your jobs. Then go for annihalator if the new expansion doesn't offer something bettter, or mandau.

If you are going for an empy i would go for Almace in your situation, and indeed i went in that direction and i don't regret. But getting a relic isn't that hard either if you dedicate time so don't be scared.

I started mine on 2nd Dec., I had 15M and the attestation saved by then, and on 25th Dec. i already had the 75 version, so it took 23 days (this was doing 2h of dyna each day during week and 2 dynas and 4 salvages during weekend with some extra farm on the last weekend also), if you have time for salvage during week you can speed up it even more. You will get sick tho, i still can't find strenght to enter dyna or salvage again to finish the 99, been slacking since then <.< but is not really that time consuming if you have the resources for it.

I really love my Mandau but let's be honest, STR Thokcha x2 or Aluh /STR Thokcha it's pretty decent with exenterator, especially if you just use your thf for farming old content. Blu or Rng would benefit more from Almace/Anni, more if you plan to use them on endgame, which is more common than go Thf i guess.

In the end it all depends on what you like to play more, but if you wanna get weapons for all 3 i would get Almace, Mandau & Anni before Twashtar (unless you also wanna play DNC, in that case i would get Twash before Mandau i guess)

Make Almace your 1st empy, it brings BLU from a "no-DD" point to a "can-DD" you still wont be a wagnarok WAR or DRK but its a great boost to Blu :) and well... your group will thank you hehe. Almace will probably be lv 85 in 1 weekend^^;

Glad I asked here, really appreciate your input guys. Almace and work towards Anni. 23 days is very impressive Arcalimo.

Cheers

Sorry for the Necro but I have a question. I am coming back and Mandau99/Twash99 seems to be the best from checks. My question is:

at what point does Twash offhand beat Str Dagger99. Is it strictly Twash99 or will a 95 do it?

To be honest I am not at all sure with the offhand hierarchy.

I have checked here and BG but just see Mandau99/Twash99 or Mandau99/Str99 and maybe that is the simple answer.

Any help would be cool.

Twash99 is the best offhand for Mandau 99, but i would only really go for it if you either also love dnc or thf is you absolute favorite job or you just have nothing else to toss your money into.

Mandau is already really good with STR99 dagger, and in some situations (when you dont cap ddex with STR99, but you do with Twash) even the lv90 Twash is equal and or better better then STR99.

It really depends if the DEX from Twash makes you cap ddex or not. If STR99 wont get you capped, but the twash 90 will, it will come out ahead of STR99, but mostly just slightly.

excluding mobs where hitrate is not capped.. because i dont feel like making another TP set/food/buff combination now for those (at work atm)... both same TP/WS sets (just useing current skadi TP set, Thaumas-like Exenterator (maybe not best set but just picked what came to my mind what is used), Toci/hecatomb/abbateur-like MS, no kehpri stuff)

Mithra with WHM present /DNC STR/DEX12/Dagger16,Exenterator5, Solo Exenterator, SA and TA Mercy, Haste, 5%Haste Samba, 10%Defdown, BoostSTR, RCB) just showing the %ish-overall-dps increase by the weapon which is stronger:

Twash 95 vs STR99
>Fodder: Twash lead by 4,5% (Capped ddex, fstr,cratio on both)
>DC Nightmare: Twash lead 6,4 % (Capped dex for Tash, both almsot cap cratio, capped fstr)
>Hydra DRG/MNK: STR99 lead by 0,2/1,2 (not capped ddex,fstr,cratio)
>Buffalo EM: STR lead 1,5% (capped ddex on both, both dont cap fstr, cratio)
>Bhukis: Twash lead 3,3% (capped ddex on twash, both dont cap cratio, capped fstr on STR99 but not on twash)

Twash 99 vs STR99
>Fodder: Twash 6,6% ahead
>DC Nightmare: Twash 8,51
>Hydra DRG/MNK/RNG: Twash 0,8/0,8/5,3
>Buffalo EM: STR and Twash 99 equal
>Bhukis: Twash 4,94 %

Twash 90 vs STR99
>Fodder: Twash 2,5
>DC Nightmare: twash 4,3
>HydraDRG/MNK/RNG: STR 2,8/3,4/0,7
>Buffalo EM: STR 3,6
>Bhukis: Twash 1,3

those values in spreadsheet change if you have different race or buffs or food or gear and you know..anything. (i didnt download a new one, its a few weeks old if anything changed) but it gives you an impression how "far" ahead twash is. Its best you download it yourself and intup the gear you have or the gear you want to optain as best sets and play around with it.

in general i would say Twash99 > Twash95 > STR99 = Twash90 (sometimes better sometimes weaker) If you already have Mandau 99 and Twash90 and you plan to raise twash to 95/99 i wouldnt bother with STRdagger. But if you already have STR99 and no twasher and have other jobs to gear aswell i would stay at that.

Thank you for the excellent reply :D

Pugi and Aluh can jumble up that hierarchy too.

Another random question for the thread:

How does a Defense Down Thokcha compare to the STR Thokcha? What if you're in an event setting, where the Defense Down helps out all the DDs, not just you? How many people does it take for the Defense Down Thokcha to cause more overall damage than a STR Thokcha?

Forgetting Relics, Mythical and Empy daggers (also the kinda must have Thief Knife), what would be the two daggers to have main and offhand? I know I will be without Mercy Stroke and Rudra's Storm, But its not like a play THF that much and won't spend gil or time on these until I get other stuff.

Would it be Aluh Jambiya and Oynos Knife? I currently own the Twilight and triplus, it takes me a day and a half to kill stuff even with that triple/quad attk... I am just looking to have something decent for the casual eva tanking and seal, pop item farming...

Thanks in advance.

str thokcha! I'd think it'd be aluh/str thokcha, but i'm not even sure

Why? To equate values over equal sets of standards and because not everyone wants to be a career thf. With that being said they will mainly use evisceration. Also, Stacked TA/SA are very powerful with Empy/Relic daggers it would not matter for above person to worry about those ws being stacked as they would still be using evisceration.

To answer your question Mali, If you do not plan on trying for Corusacanti, Aluh + Str dagger @ 99 is best set up for most content using evisceration as you primary ws whether it be stacked or unstacked. It would be a worth while investment to at least get a 90 Twashtar if you plan to also fulfill putting out viable DPS as thf. It may not be the best but is very effective.



Good luck and have fun on your Thf.

His point was that your comparison was botched since you didn't play to the strengths of the better weapons in your comparison. It's like comparing a Ferrari and a Prius but saying you can only go 40mph.

I also don't see why you're spending all this time talking about Evisceration, when any THF, "career" or not, can level up Exenterator for a DPS boost.

How would Exenterator beat Evisceration? Would be nice if people would post sets, calculations, theory, SS of your theory in practice via parsers. all forums are chalked full of. "Beer is better cause I said so"! comments. I am honestly beginning to think the majority of the opinions on the forums are gathered via information from DPS spreadsheets with out probably being able to pass a high school Lv. calculus or statistics exam.

One of the few forum dwellers I have seen post viable information is "Drylo"(Hope that is how it is spelled). where is that smarty-pants when you need a run down on things.

Draylo cares about blu and spreadsheets are better than your parses unless you want to try to do something 1000's of times with the exact same conditions. If you want sets you can find them.

Here this should help. Also try scrolling down in the Thief forums

Uhm yeah that was awesome, Haven't laughed that hard on this site in awhile. /Bow for the laughter.

I don't get, there's tons of sets for these WS posted all over the THF forums. Just have to spend a non-zero amount of time looking for them.

Any calculation someone writes in a napkin here has very high chance of being less correct than the spreadsheet, which has been vetted, debugged, tested by many people over a long period of time. There are occasionally bugs but every time one is fixed, it's a bug that we won't see again. Reinventing the wheel and manually calculating stuff every time doesn't mean your data is better, it means it's worse. This is pretty much a standard principle in software engineering and the primary hazard associated with any sort of software rewrite, and rewriting software is precisely what all those napkin mathers are doing every time things get posted. Obviously you need to understand basic FFXI damage mechanics to get the most accurate results (and to be able to investigate more closely if you get an unexpected result) but one's desire to memorize all of the formulas of the formula doesn't negatively impact whatever results they present.

And if that's not obvious enough, anyone who's doing a lot of these calculations themselves a lot are going to quickly realize they're wasting tons of their time and they're going to begin to write a spreadsheet of their own to reduce the tedium. Then it's a comparison between the small spreadsheet that's used and tested by one dude and the larger, more feature-rich spreadsheet that's been tested by many people. I really don't understand your sentiment, although I've seen several people say similar things. Folks are strangely enamoured by parantehesis or something.

*Words of wisdom from Joel on Software regarding rewriting.

When I was still mostly dubious about the spreadsheet's results, I dug through the cells and confirmed that cells are using the correct formulas and it's pretty solid. Just look for yourself. Embrava is still implemented in a pretty wonky way and I don't trust it at all but other than that, I'm happy to stick with the best spreadsheet that the community has available and attempt to improve it when possible rather than naively starting from scratch.

Not sure what you're asking for here, Evisc obviously does better inside of Abyssea but you don't usually get those kinds of buffs outside.

Generally misleading and incorrect.

Pretty irrelevant point. Being able to plug numbers into formulas isn't impressive.