Probably Still A Sensitive Subject..

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2010-06-21
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Probably still a sensitive subject..
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 Valefor.Slipispsycho
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2012-02-21 08:09:58  
But I agree with the father and there's just something wrong with this picture.

Quote:
A Michigan man whose son died in Iraq has burned the state flag of New Jersey after New Jersey flew its flags at half-staff in memory of Whitney Houston last week.

"They're watering down the term of what a true hero is these days," John Burri told ABC News. "I thought it was offensive to every family's fallen solider out there, and it cheapens the meaning of lowering the flag."

The 60-year-old's decision to torch the New Jersey flag on his Wyoming, Mich., patio grill came after New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie ordered flags flown at half-staff to honor the singer Whitney Houston, a Garden State native who was buried in her home state on Sunday.

Burri believes flags should only be lowered for those who died serving their country.

"My intention was not to hurt anyone, especially the residents of New Jersey," said Burri. "My intention was to show Gov. Christie how offensive it was."

The governor has defended his decision, calling Houston a "cultural icon."

"Her accomplishments in her life were a source of great pride for many people in this state and for the state as a whole, and so on that basis I think she's entitled to have that recognition," Christie told reporters last week.

After seeing Christie's comments on the local news, Burri said he set out on a mission to honor his son, Army Spc. Eric Burri, who died in 2005 when an explosive device detonated near the Humvee in which he was patrolling.

Burri bought a replica New Jersey flag, tied it to the back of his car and drove around two veteran memorials in Grand Rapids, Mich. He then stopped at his son's burial site before going home and burning the flag.

"Best $12.95 I've ever spent," said Burri.

"Sometimes, you have to do something drastic and extreme for people to listen," Burri said. "I just hope it made a point that maybe someone will pick this up and get a new law made for flag etiquette."

Federal law gives governors of American states power to have flags lowered for residents or state officials.

There is no law requiring that person to have served in the armed forces.

According to the Associated Press, Christie's office has ordered flags flown at half-staff 42 times, including for Morristown coach Harry Shatel and E Street Band saxophonist Clarence Clemons.

Burri still believes Houston could have been honored in another way.

"I have some peace now. This is done. The word is out there," Burri said. "I hope and pray something is done to prevent this from ever happening again." Link

I'm not even really sure how to put what I feel in words, but I'm going to try..

A singer died, gets statewide recognition, like her or not, the soldiers do more to serve the country/state. I don't even agree with the war, but I respect the fact that they're putting themselves at great danger to fight it.. I don't recall 1000's of flags being flown at half mast.. I mean don't they all just get lumped up into 'Veteran's Day'?
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2012-02-21 08:21:44  
I'd fly flags at half staff for a stereotypical racist meathead soldier before I'd fly it at 90% mast for someone who sang a few songs and couldn't figure out how to handle success.

aka. Even if they were the worst they could be, I still think they are more worthy of honor than Whitney Houston.
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 Fenrir.Leoheart
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By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-02-21 08:23:10  
I think it's absolutely sickening how much attention celebrities get over the people that actually did something for their country.
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 Fenrir.Jinjo
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2012-02-21 08:25:11  
A global community familiar with a single person is going to express remorse and pay tribute. Despite what those involved in the war may go through, their situation is quite literally foreign and distant from those here without a direct tie to it.

And I feel the need to point out your logical inconsistency. If you are respecting and supporting the soldiers, that's just as good as "agreeing" with the war. Saying that you don't and doing so anyways is a bit faulty, no?
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 Fenrir.Jinjo
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2012-02-21 08:26:44  
But I'll step out early; this is probably the wrong thread for me, I'm going to get shitted on my Amurrikuns that think soldiers are deserving of additional respect.
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 Bismarck.Nevill
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By Bismarck.Nevill 2012-02-21 08:29:43  
Supporting someone for doing their job is not the same as supporting the boss' decision.
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 Fenrir.Jinjo
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2012-02-21 08:30:43  
I'm sorry, I forgot there was a draft.
 Valefor.Slipispsycho
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2012-02-21 08:31:20  
I can disagree with the war and at the same time respect those who are putting their lives on the line for it. It's not really a logical inconsistency.
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 Bismarck.Nevill
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By Bismarck.Nevill 2012-02-21 08:31:40  
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
I'm sorry, I forgot there was a draft.

This has what bearing on your argument?
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 Fenrir.Jinjo
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2012-02-21 08:32:47  
The people there are there willingly to do the job that is required by them. You are supporting people supporting the cause.
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By javelinx 2012-02-21 08:33:38  
fly half staff not for a singer, because she couldn't sing anymore, but for a drug addict who was mentally abusive to her family...yeah nice
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 Bismarck.Nevill
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By Bismarck.Nevill 2012-02-21 08:33:46  
Some people are there because it is a paying job, not becase they believe in the cause.
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 Fenrir.Jinjo
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2012-02-21 08:35:09  
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: »
I can disagree with the war and at the same time respect those who are putting their lives on the line for it. It's not really a logical inconsistency.

It is, because this statement means absolutely nothing. If you disagree with the war, what are you doing about it? If you support/respect the soldiers, how are you helping them? I know you mean well, but this statement is thrown out there by far too many to parade around as neutral and it accomplishes nothing.
 Fenrir.Jinjo
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2012-02-21 08:35:53  
Bismarck.Nevill said: »
Some people are there because it is a paying job, not becase they believe in the cause.

They obviously don't disagree with it.
 Ramuh.Krizz
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By Ramuh.Krizz 2012-02-21 08:36:10  
/sigh
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 Fenrir.Leoheart
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By Fenrir.Leoheart 2012-02-21 08:42:20  
Jinjo does have a valid point worth considering though.
Said celebrity would bare more significance to a wider community for their talent, world wide even.
Whereas I couldn't even name one of the people who are in Iraq, risking their lives for their loved ones and their country.

That's my interpretation of it.

I do respect those people in the war who are fighting for the cause though, I wont sit back and think that everyone of them is there only for the paycheck.
 Bismarck.Nevill
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By Bismarck.Nevill 2012-02-21 08:42:33  
I think I'll just step out. Clearly people can't understand how you can care for a group of people and have respect for them without supporting their cause.
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By javelinx 2012-02-21 08:42:48  
also... the nations flag is flown at half mast for only a handful of occasions nationwide, there are rules for the national colors, and i think each state should follow something similar with state colors, like if a former governor dies, or someone that has done something truly honorable for their state, like revolutionary war patriots or medal of honor winners, or veterans day, etc, etc... mourning celebrity because of a simple talent with which you ruined your life...wtf, i could even understand maybe a really great celebrity and/or athlete that did great things for their community, and lived honorably...but we all know she did not perform the latter.


us colors doctrine
 Cerberus.Kalyna
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2012-02-21 08:42:49  
Why the *** would anyone want to fly the flag half-staffed for a drug addict?
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 Sylph.Seriin
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By Sylph.Seriin 2012-02-21 08:43:15  
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
If you are respecting and supporting the soldiers, that's just as good as "agreeing" with the war. Saying that you don't and doing so anyways is a bit faulty, no?

It is perfectly valid to like a part of something without liking the overall big picture. You can say: "I don't care for this or that sports team, but [team member] is a stand out guy and I like what he's done". "I don't like this movie, but this actor's part was well done for what it is". "I don't like this restaurant chain, but for some reason this particular location is great".

Those are all scaled back and broad versions as well. Having respect for soldiers has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with the current war at all. Not many are there by choice, they joined because they needed the money or it was a chance at an education that would have otherwise been out of their reach. And with the way that discipline works, you can't just "not show up to war that day", you can be jailed and in some countries even executed for that.

I don't think that people deserve respect no matter what, or that soldiers are special and need extra attention. But by equating "I have respect for this man/woman" with "go go USA, bomb the brownies kill them all", that is the faulty thinking. I mean in the OP it was the guy's own son. Of course he is going to have respect for his son, doesn't mean that he agrees with the war.
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 Valefor.Slipispsycho
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2012-02-21 08:44:03  
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: »
I can disagree with the war and at the same time respect those who are putting their lives on the line for it. It's not really a logical inconsistency.

It is, because this statement means absolutely nothing. If you disagree with the war, what are you doing about it? If you support/respect the soldiers, how are you helping them? I know you mean well, but this statement is thrown out there by far too many to parade around as neutral and it accomplishes nothing.
So to have respect or disagree with it, I have to actively be doing something one way or another? I'm not neutral.. But at the same time I don't need to be doing anything. I'm not sitting here typing up lengthy wall of texts about how this war is *** up and blah blah.. I just said I don't agree with it. I'm not even trying to sway people and get them to stand up, it was a simple statement.. If it was anything more than a statement your argument MIGHT make sense.. But it wasn't, and it doesn't.

I mean if you wanna go there, let's see your credentials for actively supporting everything you believe and working to change everything you disagree with.. Let me guess, now you can agree/disagree with something without actively involving yourself in it?
 Fenrir.Jinjo
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2012-02-21 08:45:34  
If you thought about my response in the slightest, actions taken for either side directly contradict each other.
 Bismarck.Laylina
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By Bismarck.Laylina 2012-02-21 08:45:58  
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Bismarck.Nevill said: »
Some people are there because it is a paying job, not becase they believe in the cause.

They obviously don't disagree with it.

A lot of the times they sign a CONTRACT right out of high-school, so regardless of their feelings the still have to work. And might I ask what your knowledge of our service men? Do you have any family serving?
 Shiva.Schatzie
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By Shiva.Schatzie 2012-02-21 08:46:09  
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
The people there are there willingly to do the job that is required by them. You are supporting people supporting the cause.
i joined the army rangers to pay for school because i couldnt otherwise. i didnt do two tours because i supported bush or his propoganda about WMDs. you can support people who have the huevos to do what you dont, without supporting the people who caused the whole thing to begin with.
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 Cerberus.Neojuggernaut
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By Cerberus.Neojuggernaut 2012-02-21 08:48:37  
Watch this, it's country but whatever it's true...and sad!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqmvdQlciNc

"Celebrity" - Brad Paisley
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 Fenrir.Jinjo
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2012-02-21 08:49:53  
Unfortunately, still not worthy of respect. If you're going to disagree with the war, it follows that you have to disagree with the people fighting it or nothing happens.
 Fenrir.Jinjo
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By Fenrir.Jinjo 2012-02-21 08:50:29  
Shiva.Schatzie said: »
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
The people there are there willingly to do the job that is required by them. You are supporting people supporting the cause.
i joined the army rangers to pay for school because i couldnt otherwise. i didnt do two tours because i supported bush or his propoganda about WMDs. you can support people who have the huevos to do what you dont, without supporting the people who caused the whole thing to begin with.

That's nice, and I'm glad you got to pay for your education. It was still willing, and I still have zero respect for your decision.
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By javelinx 2012-02-21 08:51:08  
honestly if you don't believe that invading iraq, routing a dangerous regime, the emplacement of intelligence assets, and physical as well as mental deterrents to openly enemy nations and groups, is protecting your country, then you obviously have only a very narrow picture of what has actually happened in Iraq, and how the world is outside of your comfy little chair. Just because Bush gave the public a couple lame excuses for the invasion doesn't mean he 1. wasn't trying to cover up something more important or 2. it was the only reason.
 Valefor.Slipispsycho
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By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2012-02-21 08:52:13  
Fenrir.Jinjo said: »
Unfortunately, still not worthy of respect. If you're going to disagree with the war, it follows that you have to disagree with the people fighting it or nothing happens.
Then waiting for your credentials showing how you've actively supported everything you agreed with or disagreed with.
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