Versatility On BLU In VW

Balanced stats arent better.
Better is when you have better stats for things you do more than other.

Higher STR lower Agi > balanced STR and Agi etc.

Hume balanced stuff might be better for solo but thats only time it might be better.

Ofc we're talking about some really marginal differences

I catch up on threads of interest, doesn't mean I reread the entire thread from page 1.

That's my point. You have at least 1 flick through your spell list taking off spells and putting on spells assuming you didn't have the right one on. Then you have 1 minute of not hitting that proc while you continue to cooldown. Many VW fights (barring shout groups) are over before half your temps wear off. That means you're netting 1 good shot at a single proc assuming it starts as a proc or is found out before the mob is 50%.
Your "multitasking" is setting 1-2 elements on top of DD spells, and CDC spamming during your 1 minute cooldown. That doesn't sound like "multitasking" to me, that sounds like MAYBE hitting one proc all fight while focusing on DDing. You're right though and I'm wrong.... I'll go look up the meaning of the term

Admittedly, I am no blue of repute; nor do i have an almace. I'm just trying to offer my opinion. If you guys want me to gtfo of the thread (not just trying to save face, trying to save the thread) I'll be happy to.

I just think I'm providing a pretty damn common view on things. If I'm making an alliance for popping I evaluate a lot. If i know that X blue mage has caused a mob to become unstaggered and hammer out half the DD's or run amuk on DD's who can't get their fanatics refreshed because he's too busy trying to top the parse over DD's..... I'll just get a war/mnk or blu who wont let me down.

So if I wasn't spamming CDC how would I be making my spells available faster? Please tell me, you seem to be far more knowledgeable on the job that I live and breathe. You seem to have a way to bypass the structural system limitations of the job and avoid the 60 second cooldown that is inevitable. You seem to think that sitting there with your thumb up your *** hoping for that "EV Dark BLU" to pop up so you can be useful instead of contributing to your group even when you don't have an active proc.


You're a joke, stop arguing it.

if you can't DD and proc at the same time it's your own inadequacy, it isn't the fault of DD BLU.

I guess I'd rather have the blu set as many proc spells as possible instead of trying to DD to "contribute".

Calling me a joke though.... ouch. I try not to step on toes, and I genuinely normally agree with you, Prothescar.

I didn't mean to cause so much mayad that I invoked the mighty ad-hominem.

No, you've more than invoked it. Your condescension and all-around offensive stance toward the job that I've been attempting to advocate, being completely wrong and covering all of us BLUs in a blanket of "well if BLU is DDing they're hurting the group!" is more than enough to piss me off. I return the level of respect that I receive.

Damn, that's some passion

WARs should equip proc weapons instead of Ukonvasaras. You never know when HQ club might pop up.

Well I'd rather just drop the debate and ask everyone to disregard my previous comments than to make you feel insulted (unless I was trying to insult). I was drg main for 7-8 years and experienced more than enough job hate myself (and i tried to advocate it just as hard).

My apologies. I genuinely meant not disrespect.


Because weapon swap takes 1 minute, amirite?

It's fine.

It will still take that WAR longer to proc than the BLU if they get unlucky and the proc is on the other side of the list from where they start. It's unfair to say otherwise.

The proc is ALWAYS on the other side of the list from where you start.

Well tbh you both (Ash and Pro) have a point because there is still a middle ground that you both seems to ignore. I dont think Pro will like this idea tho. You can set as many proc spells as possible instead of traits like DW3 (just set d2) and triple attack and store TP etc (basically just set DW). You can still DD well w/o 15%DW and 5%TA and have much more chance to not wait 1 minute because the spell will be already set.

Thats probably best solution but dont think any DD BLU will like it (including me :P)

Now I put you in a little bad situation Pro because if You gonna argue its not a best solution you will pretty much argue that few % on parse (which pretty much will lower time of the fight by few seconds) is worth not setting a lot of proc spells.

Its true that there still would be the chance that you wouldnt have the right spell set. This chance would be much smaller tho and very small with 2 BLUs in ally.

So are you going to fulltime a proc weapon on your WAR for the good of your group?

Should I have my SAMs fulltime polearms?

My DRKs fulltime swords?


It's basically the same thing. Making myself as useful as possible to the group via DD does not inhibit my ability to proc effectively. It's more than just losing a few percent on a parse, it's more about becoming a leech whose only goal is to proc and deal less damage than is possible, thus maximizing effectiveness to the group. Even if I set 0 DD traits, I would be unable to set all of my proc spells. The extra 60 seconds for the possible HV or EV BLU proc that I don't have set isn't going to be crippling your group, as you won't be killing anything relevant in 60 seconds.

S'why I made Ragnarok, it's ALWAYS a GS proc

Btw, removing Triple Attack, Store TP, and DWIII is worth 26 points maximum. That's at best 2 extra elements, for a total of 4/8 if you set cheaper elements. It doesn't even help all that much.

My main is blu and at first doing vw i use to try and have my DD and support spells on and subbing sam as well. I learned after deaths of unnecessary run ins to see if my blu spell are the weaknesses it was just a waste of time. It is really helpful to have two blu's to split the spells. Depending on who takes what spells you might be able to set one or two dd spells. So each blu should have four elemental each. I now sub whm wish cure potency gear so not only can I stay back and do whm procs I can also assist on healing the allience. Which at one fight with Pil Mnk was the only tank/DD up and whms including myself kept him safe until others unweaken. So doing a set up like that and subbing whm I am able to do many things than just run in for some stupid spells that arent the weakness.

On that note, if you are a good enough blu and know your hate tools you can assist in tanking the adds that spawn from nms. Blu can easily keep hate up with no problem on a group of pets while subing dnc and have a minor healer by their side. And also depending on the vwnm blu can tank/co-tank them. Again though its not something that every bluemage can do. Only a good one can pull it off like Janeth.

Hey! Remove some DD spells to set more procs so you have a higher chance of not having to wait a minute!

I mean you're only losing DW, TA, and sTP right?

/sarcasm

Helps a lot with 2 BLUs which is common thing in many ally.

You are also being silly now compering that to weapons.

Because its completely different thing. You can equip only one weapon at once and you have same chance for all of them to become a stagger so wearing w/e weapon will be the same chance to proc.

I always keep my sword up and I will only put on my club for proc if the team is communicating on which one they have done or if some how (which in many cases can happen) the war and so forth ends up dying. just need to be smart about it and stop being all im a blu that does only DD spells. I edited my first post btw.

It isn't that silly. Sure the weapon could get lucky and proc in 2 or 3 weaponskills, but it could take them the entire list, which will likely take 60 seconds or more. Setting 4/8 elements, which will be the same static elements no matter what, is needlessly removing a very sizable chunk of DD ability in favor of making it 25% more likely to have the proc set. If I don't have the correct element, I'll still have to take off part of another of those 4 elements just to fit the one that I don't have set.

Read the rest of the thread, you're a little lost. BLU's damage comes out of Almace, not spells. If all I had were spells to do damage with, I'd stay back and nuke and yes, would only proc. But having an Almace or a similar sword changes the job completely.

Staying back and nuking would still only provide about 6/8 elements at any given time.

I have almace and yes more or less it helps. but by the time you charge in to do so it would be dead. I dont charge in unless its been red procced or i have fan or fools up depending on your nm. and yes i am lost in this thread a bit. i not gonna ready through the whole eight pages. this was the only page i read. may be ill ready the first one and thats about it ^^

It isn't more or less, it literally puts the job through a complete metamorphosis. By the time I charge in I'm in at the same time as everyone else and I've done a considerable amount of the damage to the NM while still proccing.

Ok you dont understand so I will do it and try to explain

1. If you gonna use sword the stagger can be a scythe. If you wear scythe the stagger can be a great axe etc. In other way wearing whatever weapon will result in same chance to be prepared for upcoming weapon stagger. Because of that you can freely use best damage weapon before you get a hint.
2. You completely mixing 2 things. Having access to start staggering is not the same as total time of success in stagger. Ofc WAR can stagger 2 minutes when being unlucky but he cant do anything to be more prepared for staggering (which I explained in point 1) beside saving wing and sekkanoki to be able to use it after switching the weapon.

Some people make my brain hurt, it feels like trying to explain economics to a wasp.

It's not a hard concept, if a WAR is in a zerg and he has to proc god knows what would he he be in any better of a position than a BLU who set procs midway and has a 25% chance of that spell being it?

Unless the WAR proc was always top/bottom of the list I dont see what the big difference would be.

First off do not speak to me as if I'm a fool. I assure you, I understand this concept quite well, I do wish others did as well.

You are not looking at the opportunity cost, and are simply basing your claims on luck, the exact same thing that you're subject to for weapons. You have a maximum of four elements set if you use ONLY Dual Wield II. That's it. That's up from 1.5~2 elements. It is not a reasonable difference for what you lose by removing Triple Attack, Dual Wield III, and Store TP. Now to directly counter your post:

1. If you're going to use earth blue magic, the stagger can be wind. If you wear wind the stagger can be fire, etc. In other words, wearing whatever element will result in same chance to be prepared for upcoming magic stagger. Because of that you can freely do your best damage before you get a hint and still have nearly the same chance to not have the correct spells set.

2. Blue mage is still constrained even if they do not set any DD traits. It still may not matter if you remove a massive portion of your DPS-bearing ability in favor of two extra elements.

Ok you still dont or dontt want to understand.

You cant do anything to improve your chance of being prepared for stagger a weapon on WAR because you cant equip several weapons at once.

You can improve your chance of being prepared on BLU by setting more spells.

You still ignoring the fact that you should be able to cover all proc spells with 2 BLUs.

So then you're gimping two of your DDs instead of waiting an extra 60 seconds if it isn't one of the elements that those two BLUs have set already. You aren't going to have the NM dead before the BLU procs, and if you do then it's likely that those lights were capped regardless. The BLU is serving their primary functions, variables outside of that BLU are not strong enough to cause me to cause two of my DDs to gimp their DPS just because it might have a chance to alleviate 60 seconds off of a proc.

You're slightly improving an aspect that's still being done effectively while drastically decreasing the effectiveness of another. It is you, sir, who does not seem to understand.

Atoreis you seem to be unable to be able to listen to anything outside of your box, if there are people doing what we speak of what makes it so hard to comprehend?

You just seem to be trying to drive this conversation in endless circles until somehow you can find something you can gain leverage on. You really dont even need to play BLU to understand this concept so please think about what you have to say before typing up some random biased thought.

This game is about optimization, not compromise.