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SOPA and PIPA
By Eugene 2012-01-18 21:56:07
I may have missed out on this but has anyone started up any constructive discussion with congress? I mean, I see a lot of people flat out condemning SOPA and PIPA but has there been any suggestions made that would contribute to eliminating the problem without stepping on others? I saw a few posts where people said they couldn't think of anything but I was just wondering if there has been any discussion like that.
I'm sure that they have had people willing to testify in front of committees on the harm this will cause. To what extent they have listened, I haven't seen that as reported on as much.
By zahrah 2012-01-18 21:59:18
Well, Leila, I think I've done my share of scolding, nagging, and finger wagging at my rep. Nice when we can actually put those powers to good use instead of doing it in the religion thread.
サーバ: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Skadoosh 2012-01-18 22:01:11
I may have missed out on this but has anyone started up any constructive discussion with congress? I mean, I see a lot of people flat out condemning SOPA and PIPA but has there been any suggestions made that would contribute to eliminating the problem without stepping on others? I saw a few posts where people said they couldn't think of anything but I was just wondering if there has been any discussion like that. This is precisely what I was suggesting. I guess I worded it poorly. Needs more debating the opposition and less black rectangles. Reasoning>protesting
Bismarck.Rinomaru
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By Bismarck.Rinomaru 2012-01-18 22:06:51
TheOatmeal has a pretty funny thing goin on.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-19 08:06:46
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-19 08:10:00
You know some people made have disagreed with the method used yesterday, but apparently it worked.
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Cerberus.Kalyna
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2012-01-19 08:11:32
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-19 08:15:35
Democrats are supposed to side with Hollywood, now that he's against the bill, this should get interesting. Will he stand by his stance amid losing donations, or will he cave?
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-19 08:19:08
Also what else I liked about yesterday was that the actual websites participated. Rather than having someone like Anonymous take down sites, or something along those lines, big players like Google, Wikipedia, etc. took part.
Cerberus.Kalyna
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2012-01-19 08:25:59
I was kinda hoping that Facebook and Twitter would follow suit but they didn't =(
Imagine the rage when people found out Facebook was down for the day.
I do agree with some people tho, that the blackout was kinda a childish way to protest, however it did spread the word and I heard that they're planning on taking out the "blame the websites for posted user-based content" part. Will that change things? Probably not much.
Asura.Hit
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By Asura.Hit 2012-01-19 08:50:38
I'm glad this site participated in the protest. I wasn't aware of the bill before.
People on this site are so proactive in discussion of events in general, more often than not I hear about things here, before I see anything about them anywhere else.
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By Oumura 2012-01-19 08:54:28
Really late to the party here...
Speaking simply from a gamer's standpoint, I find the most irritating thing about SOPA being the ESA's rather strong push for it. Even when taking into consideration that companies like EA, Sony, and Nintendo have "withdrawn" their support from SOPA, the fact remains that the ESA is essentially an umbrella they still stand under.
::EDIT::
My mistake, after having read a bit on the subject a little more I came across this.
"UPDATE: Our unenthusiastic half-props for decoupling themselves from SOPA may have been a little premature as, according to Techdirt, the companies in question were never on the SOPA supporter list in the first place. An older list of supporters posted on Scribd includes Go Daddy and a number of law firms which demanded their names be removed in December. Notably absent, however, are Sony, Nintendo and Electronic Arts.
The trio had signed their names to a letter from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's Global IP Center, released in support of SOPA-like legislation, but had never actually directly endorsed SOPA itself, which is why their names aren't on the list. They haven't changed their position on anything, and while it's better than nothing that none of them have explicitly come out in favor of the proposed law, the fact that the ESA is still pushing hard for it remains deeply discouraging."
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-19 08:55:26
I was kinda hoping that Facebook and Twitter would follow suit but they didn't =( Imagine the rage when people found out Facebook was down for the day. I do agree with some people tho, that the blackout was kinda a childish way to protest, however it did spread the word and I heard that they're planning on taking out the "blame the websites for posted user-based content" part. Will that change things? Probably not much. Too much money at stake... same with Google. Is it just me or do you think that some of the groups that organized protests were more worried about losing revenue and legal issues for themselves as opposed actually trying to protect freedom of speech and the like? Kind of like the same fight just for the other side that seemed to coincide with our percieved view of "the right thing".
Cerberus.Kalyna
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2012-01-19 09:15:49
I have a feeling all these blackouts that happened yesterday would all be in vain and SOPA and PROTECT IP are going to pass.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-19 09:17:59
Even if they do pass, we made history. How so?
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-19 09:21:05
I have a feeling all these blackouts that happened yesterday would all be in vain and SOPA and PROTECT IP are going to pass.
SOPA 'shelved' indefinitely, but Reddit's Jan. 18 blackout is still on, as PIPA fight continues
One down one more to go. For now anyway. The battle will still rage on.
Cerberus.Kalyna
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2012-01-19 09:24:31
Ya know, I was just thinking. You know how google got like 3-4mil petition signatures and stuff, well looking at the election results that's something like 1/32rd of the election results of 2008.
Now thinking deeper, how many of those petitioners voted in that election, let alone in 2011? Probably a small amount. Especially since Many of those are probably under 18 and/or can't vote.
I find it funny that people who didn't even vote try to get their opinion across. I think it's time to get the young generation to start voting.
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Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2012-01-19 09:32:06
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-19 09:32:10
Even if they do pass, we made history. How so? HistoryI still don't get it. It's not like a bill hasn't faced public opposition before and been scrapped. You give people an opportunity to do something from behind their desks at home and its much easier expecially when you put it right in their face and need only for them to click a button. I'm not trying to downplay the need to speak out agianst the things you feel are wrong for our country because I fully advocate that and would encourage people to do that. I just don't get why you think this particular one is so historical.
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-19 09:40:14
Ya know, I was just thinking. You know how google got like 3-4mil petition signatures and stuff, well looking at the election results that's something like 1/32rd of the election results of 2008. Now thinking deeper, how many of those petitioners voted in that election, let alone in 2011? Probably a small amount. Especially since Many of those are probably under 18 and/or can't vote. I find it funny that people who didn't even vote try to get their opinion across. I think it's time to get the young generation to start voting. you bring up some very interesting points. I hadn't even thought about the fact that there may be many people that signed the digital petitions that may be under the age of 18. I wonder if that group was significant or a minority.
Voting seems to be a tricky thing to get people to do but I can say its much easier to get people to see something on a site they frequent, push a button and digitally sign their name to a petition rather than register to vote and be bothered to go to a polling place to cast it. I hear complaints about certain places requiring a valid state ID as well which I don't really understand why that's an issue.
Not only is important to get people voting but also to cultivate politicians that will speak for and represent us and not just choose from what we are currently handed.
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By Sylph.Michizane 2012-01-19 09:44:40
Ya know, I was just thinking. You know how google got like 3-4mil petition signatures and stuff, well looking at the election results that's something like 1/32rd of the election results of 2008. Now thinking deeper, how many of those petitioners voted in that election, let alone in 2011? Probably a small amount. Especially since Many of those are probably under 18 and/or can't vote. I find it funny that people who didn't even vote try to get their opinion across. I think it's time to get the young generation to start voting. you bring up some very interesting points. I hadn't even thought about the fact that there may be many people that signed the digital petitions that may be under the age of 18. I wonder if that group was significant or a minority. Voting seems to be a tricky thing to get people to do but I can say its much easier to get people to see something on a site they frequent, push a button and digitally sign their name to a petition rather than register to vote and be bothered to go to a polling place to cast it. I hear complaints about certain places requiring a valid state ID as well which I don't really understand why that's an issue. Not only is important to get people voting but also to cultivate politicians that will speak for and represent us and not just choose from what we are currently handed.
The reason that valid state IDs is a issue is because in some states you have to pay for an ID. Which is in sence a polling tax. which is unconsitutional. Also in some states *cough*Texas*cough* You can use ur Gun licernces but not ur student ID anymore to vote.
*edit* yes i know i spell poorly...
Lakshmi.Flavin
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By Lakshmi.Flavin 2012-01-19 09:52:07
Ya know, I was just thinking. You know how google got like 3-4mil petition signatures and stuff, well looking at the election results that's something like 1/32rd of the election results of 2008. Now thinking deeper, how many of those petitioners voted in that election, let alone in 2011? Probably a small amount. Especially since Many of those are probably under 18 and/or can't vote. I find it funny that people who didn't even vote try to get their opinion across. I think it's time to get the young generation to start voting. you bring up some very interesting points. I hadn't even thought about the fact that there may be many people that signed the digital petitions that may be under the age of 18. I wonder if that group was significant or a minority. Voting seems to be a tricky thing to get people to do but I can say its much easier to get people to see something on a site they frequent, push a button and digitally sign their name to a petition rather than register to vote and be bothered to go to a polling place to cast it. I hear complaints about certain places requiring a valid state ID as well which I don't really understand why that's an issue. Not only is important to get people voting but also to cultivate politicians that will speak for and represent us and not just choose from what we are currently handed. The reason that valid state IDs is a issue is because in some states you have to pay for an ID. Which is in sence a polling tax. which is unconsitutional. Also in some states *cough*Texas*cough* You can use ur Gun licernces but not ur student ID anymore to vote. *edit* yes i know i spell poorly... I just have to wonder how many people don't have state ID's these days.
Cerberus.Kalyna
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By Cerberus.Kalyna 2012-01-19 09:52:12
You know, looking at the total population of USA (like 300mil), it's mind blowing that only 130mil voted and that the internet community, even though it seems huge, is only a small fraction, or so it seems.
God I feel like an ant realizing this lol.
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Bismarck.Tragedie
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By Bismarck.Tragedie 2012-01-19 09:54:14
Just a note, you may have to be 18 to vote, but you do not have to be 18 to write a letter to your elected officials and voice your opinion.
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You may have noticed a number of sites around the internet either going offline, or blacking themselves out today, in protest of two bills in the US Congress that were recently set to pass with nearly unanimous consent of both Republicans and Democrats. An enormous opposition movement has popped up among tech, game, and internet companies, and the bills are now stalled pending further review, but the Democratic (Senate) and Republican (House) leaders are still set on moving forward with them at some point, so it's still important to mention.
Here's a description of what these bills do in a nutshell, and why our users should be concerned.
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Probably the most important provision of online copyright law is something called the DMCA Safe Harbor Provision. This legal provision says that someone who hosts a site that allows user content (example: Google, which links to other sites, FFXI, which allows user chat, or even our site, which allows forum posts) is a legally separate entity from their users, as far as copyright violations are concerned.
In plain English, this means that if one of you decides to make a forum post linking to or re-posting copyrighted content, you are legally responsible. You can be sued. But as long as we make a good faith effort to remove the content as soon as we're notified, we (meaning Scragg, Cliff, and I) cannot be held personally responsible, nor directly sued for violation of copyright ourselves.
Similarly, Safe Harbor means that we cannot be held responsible for sites that we link to, should those sites violate copyright. In other words, if gamerescape, or wikia, or any of the sites linked in our item pages violate copyright somewhere on their own pages, that's their problem -- not ours.
The only way for a copyright holder to take legal action against FFXIAH.com is if they take us to court, and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that we purposely and actively engaged in the violation of copyright ourselves. Which is a pretty high bar to reach.
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SOPA and PIPA essentially remove the Safe Harbor provision. In other words, if one of you decides to link to copyrighted content on our forum, we are now directly and personally responsible, and can theoretically be sued for copyright violation as though we were the ones doing it ourselves. Similarly, if a site we link to (like wikia) decides to violate copyright, we can also be held responsible just for linking to them.
Worse, the bills remove the requirement to even take us to court. Copyright holders themselves (private entities) can now go straight to the internet's DNS authorities (the master address listing for all sites on the web) and file a complaint. This will immediately knock FFXIAH.com offline without so much as a court ruling. It's then incumbent upon us to fight back in court and earn the right to bring the site back.
Copyright holders argue this is necessary because they lose money for every second a site is allowed to link to, or feature, copyrighted content. They argue they need ultimate power to knock sites off the internet immediately, and only deal with the burden of proof later.
They promise to only use their new powers "sparingly" and "responsibly." I'm sure you can all guess how that one will end.
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This makes the internet a very dangerous place to operate. Google could be held responsible for returning links to any sites that could even possibly feature copyrighted content. (Which is most of them.) We could be forced to pre-censor all forum and user content for copyright violations before we could even put them online. Arguably, MMO's couldn't even allow users to speak freely in chat, as they might mention something copyrighted, which would make the MMO companies themselves legally responsible, and capable of being knocked offline without trial at the first complaint. Sites like Wikipedia, which are based entirely on user content, probably couldn't operate at all due to the inherent dangers. The effects would be widespread and very chilling to how the internet operates.
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Having worked in the games industry for 15 years, I'm acutely aware of the financial damage done by online piracy. This thread is not the place to argue the virtues or moral pitfalls of pirated content.
That being said, these bills are deeply flawed. They were written by major copyright holders (the recording and movie industries) to give them carte blanche ultimate authority over the internet. They comprise a massive overreach, and our elected representatives (who are too old to even understand how VCRs work, let alone the web) are too clueless to realize what's actually in them.
If you have a second, please sign one of the (many) online petitions in protest of SOPA and PIPA, and/or contact your representative or senator and urge them to oppose the bills. This is not a Democrat or Republican thing -- both parties have been equally supportive of the bills and both parties are responsible.
The massive outpouring of opposition from tech companies has caused many people in Congress to change their minds, and the White House has also now expressed reservations about signing the bills in their current form. But the battle isn't done yet. The bills still live, and will still be brought up in the next Congressional session.
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Thanks for taking the time to read this.
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