Ryunohige

I suppose in Voidwatch they may not be getting buffs, although I would think a Ryunohige DRG would be in a good brd+cor party if the group isn't HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. As far as Legion, they should definitely have minuets and chaos. If you don't have melee buffs in Legion, it would be because you aren't on a melee job.

Am I just really overlooking the importance of berserk's attack? I can't foresee a Ryunohige DRG getting the full benefits from berserk, or at the very least enough attack to counter the difference in /SAM's Hasso.

Back when lvl cap was @ 75, my drg/war would outdamage drg/sam. Mostly because of ws spike damage. I prefer the use of berserk over hasso because with berserk, you get double attack with it as well as the enhanced attack because of the /war. :)

You underestimate the attack penalty on Drakesbane D:.

Attack bonus is the same, 22 for both jobs.

I am fully aware of the large attack penalty Drakesbane has, so if I am underestimating something it would be how much attack pre-berserk DRGs have or what defense the average enemy has. I would be appreciative if someone could toss some numbers my way, as I really don't know enough about current DRG stats and armor to do so myself.

I actually had forgotten hasso gave haste (I was only thinking stp/meditate, been playing mnk too much). going from 68 to 78 haste is going to be like a 45% dmg increase which /wars gonna have a hard time covering.

45% dmg increase?

Haste don't mean ***if you hitting really low. And haste doesn't help weaponskill damage. Stardiver unbuffed hits like crap. Give it attack, and it becomes amazing, same for drakesbane.

going from 32 down to 22 is about 32/22=1.45454545
so a 45% increase in melee swings, which is aprox a 45% increase in ws frequency which is a 45% increase in ws dmg (of course with some devaluing factors like embrava regain and jumps)= basically a 45% increase in dmg.


See above for how haste increases ws dmg. I don't have numbers for how much /war is actually going to be, I was just retracting my earlier statement that it was a clear cut winner.

I really don't think /WAR can possibly add enough from berserk and DA. As far as attack goes you would need extremely low base attack or extremely high enemy defense to get the full advantages from berserk. It would be a much better argument for /WAR over /SAM based on Agressor as far as I can tell.

And JA delay, which hurts you more the faster you hit. It's not "basically a 45% increase in dmg." It's "basically nowhere near a 45% increase in dmg."

With how much you actually swing in VW and legion, haste is not that big of a deal...weaponskill damage is.

I've become really disenchanted with /war as ryu drg. I basically officially gave it up about 2 weeks ago. The da is completely negligable with AM up. With an 11chaos in the mix, zero is only some ~11% more atk (when its even up). 68-78% Haste from hasso is a BIG friggin deal. Stp is always nice as is sekka and meditade for maintaining AM and managing overflow tp. Regain or not you WILL get more ws out of /sam than /war between hasso haste and stp you WILL ws more. My ws damage is about 70%+ of my damage. Anything that enhances that is what pushes me up. Its basically a ~11% atk boost that isn't always up vs 10% haste, stp med and sekka. Frankly I hit to damn slow for me to stand /war anymore. 68-70% Haste is a very hefty bonus. On phone now so no numbers, but double min+41% chaos + my 25% angon and i have yet to hit embarrassing drakes. They are usually within ~100 damage avg of the (better of the few) rag drks reso in my shell. Atk starved or not, drakes does perfectly awesome damage as /sam. 11% Atk 3/5 min isn't a dealbreaker. Angon25+atk buffs is fine

!

Unless Spirit Surge is active (/WAR is the clear winner for zergs), DRG caps out at 68% Haste without Hasso and 78% with. .32/.22 = 45% damage increase.

A 25% increase in your attack reflects a (slightly lower than due to food) .25 increase in Ratio, up to the cap. There is some indication that % bonuses to Attack are summed with % penalties to it rather than multiplicatively, or at least that's what I'm remembering, so I'm going to assume that is the case. Anyway, if you're fighting a level 124 monster where you lose 1.25 Ratio purely from level correction (not an unrealistic estimation for Provenance monsters, probably) then you're looking at a maximum of a 1.0 cRatio for 2H melee. If Berserk is the difference between 2.0 Ratio and 2.25 Ratio (or 0.75 and 1 cRatio) then it represents a large (very approximately a 1/3) increase in damage.

By the same token, if Drakesbane's attack penalty is dropping your cRatio a lot (due to level correction as shown above), then activating AM3 and spamming Stardiver is definitely going to be the way to go. Stardiver isn't exactly a shitty WS.

I really don't think you understand that Haste DOES effect WS Damage.

Even using ridiculous numbers like average WS /WAR=4000, and average /SAM= 3000 at an average of 3 attack rounds per WS. Obviously /WAR isn't increasing WS damage by 33% but I am overestimating for a reason.

3 attack rounds per WS @ 68.75% haste= 24,742 damage per minute from WS.

3 attack rounds per WS @ 78.75% haste= 24,827 damage per minute from WS.

Sure looks to me like haste effects WS Damage by means of WS frequency.

Getting TP subbed war in Dynamis for my aftermath was god awful. I subbed war a few times for VW and barely noticed my weapon skills doing much higher. I sure as Hell noticed how much slower I was getting TP though. Never tried it for Legion, but I'm not sure if you can do a five hit.

Your forgetting to include the point that Chaos roll adds to, not multiplies with zerk. Since everyone is only talking about zerg zerg zerg, then its assumed your getting a 41% chaos. 141% atk no zerk up to 166% atk with zerk is only ~17% more atk. Less with food and only when zerk is actually up. Oh and stalwarts drops that ~17% down even MORE ><

/war bonuses:
*DA: irrelivant since were talking about Ryu and it does virtually nothing with AM up.
*Zerk: With chaos, and only when zerk is up obviously, roughly ~17% atk bonus for 3/5 min.
*Agressor 20 acc up 3/5
*lolwarcry

Vs
Hasso:
10 acc full time vs 20 acc 3/5 is a fair enough trade.

So we basically have:
~17% atk 3/5 of the time
vs
*68-78% haste(~45% more melee damage and melee based TP)
*STP: Say it all you want that regain makes it bad. Regain etc only REDUCES its bonus. Not removes it. You WILL get more WS from teh STP traits. If you 5hit /war, you are loosing other stats from gear sacrifices you dont have to /sam. Either way, you cant just ignore it like you dont loose anything. You do. If you gear intelligently, you can always use the STP. Not impossible to make allowances for regain in your gear sets. Less lazyness excuses more proper gearing.

~17% atk is good. Its lovely. It in now way makes drakes go from doing ***1k WS to over 9000!. The benefits of zerk are getting heavily overestimated. Sure, if you have no cor, and left your angons at home, im sure its gravy. Its also dumb. Properly buffed drg with 41% chaos, double mins, and your own 25% angon (seriously, if you have a *** Ryu you better have the damn glove augment) not to mention dia/etc, the phrase "atk starved" is a little dramatic. I have consistently put p avg drakesbane numbers withing a few points of resolution spamming drk/wars (highest atk job in the friggin GAME).

I am so over /war at this point. It gets screwed in both directions.

*low/unbuffed situations (not capped haste, no embrava/regain/tp out the ***) you NEED the tp gaining abilitys from /sam to use your AM effectively and are probably low man and would like the option to seigan anyway.

zerged situation, you have
*chaos weakening zerks relative gain
*capped haste making hasso friggin off the chain yo
*You have minuets/chaos/angon/stalwarts(and prob dia) to force feed the (slightly overhyped) 'atk starved' drg.
_____________________________________________________________


Serious question:
What kinda jacked up zergs are people going into that they are seriously atk deficient? That is an honest question because im not experiencing any 'zergish' material that my atk is down to ***. Im hitting for 300+ on most mobs with melee swing with a D151 lance implying a VERY high pdif hovering 1.6-2 on nearly anything. Im not walking up to prov watcher or legion and hitting for 80 damage. Where is this happening to people that they NEED zerk to not to ***for damage? What mob in the game holds up to 150 food, ~150-300ish via Min(depending on 2hr), 41% chaos roll combined with def down effects like -25% angon YOU should be providing. drgs should be in the 1700-2k atk range (2kish with 2hr brd). With -25% def, your talking about mobs with like ~1250 def or higher (after level correction) JUST to keep you from going over cap. ***doesnt have 1500 def in this game. With the atk penalty on drakes, you may not be CAPPED, but you will be still damn high. Protip: you dont need to give up all the good ***from /sam to go from "high" atk to "cap" atk on -20% atk WS that crits. Doing more 'very good' WS does more damage than less 'slightly better' WS.

If you guys are having serious atk issues, i guess it just sucks to be in your groups then. Im not having that problem.

I'm just eyeballing from about 30 fights I did stardiver on sam, but It increased my weaponskill damage over 1k. Sam/war zerk braver chaos 11 hasso stalwarts. Without berserk I do roughly 2200-2500 damage, but with zerk, my average is over 3300 and spikes up to 5.9k. Attack cap makes a huge difference for weaponskills. Not saying I'm right, I'm going by experience. I just don't believe you are swinging 3x a round in VW...so haste is not really all that effective...SOmeone should just parse and prove their results please.

YOu probably have oober groups where you have chaos/minuet up the butt. I understand most zergs are going by that, but most people usually get chaos roll OR minuet. Ima just leave this thread alone before I derail and actually piss people off. I'll come back when I can parse and do math haha. Good luck people.

Wasn't Ig-Alima reported by the Community reps as Lv120, 1200DEF? Or am I remembering the second stat wrong? I know it was reported at 1059 attack.

Was never reported to have 1200 defense.

You're probably making that up and use gear swaps and windower too

bolded for extra wtf

Fine. I'll start parsing....and of course you didn't see that part where I said "attack cap makes a huge difference for weaponskills".

We're sorry you get into awful groups who can't rotate buffs?

Damn right. I have legit never had a serious LS that understands the game. Last time I told them to rotate the brd, I pretty much got called HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE and told it was a waste of time. Same thing when I told some cor's that chaos/miser is alot better than tac/miser.
So when I say attack makes a difference, I kind of mean only when chaos roll is present, because that's all I'm ever given :/

I find it funny how you always change your stances so quickly. Quite the easily led type aren't you.

Let's just sub /nin to get dual wield and use herja's + ryu.

Dual wielding spears FFIII style!!