Yeah I'm not going to quit just because this *** wants to nerf us into oblivion. It's just sad people cry "Nerf WAR nerf WAR nerf WAR" While SAM gets Shoha which seems broken at this point imo.(It out damages Kaiten/Fudo...)
I think the Abyssea team had it right as far as balance wise (razed ruins aside) and tanaka comes in and wants to "Balance" everything. Looking away from how critical hit weaponskills dominated Abyssea everything else was looking well done.
I do agree Shoha needs nerfing. I got derped when it destroys my Masamune >.>
Yeah I'm not going to quit just because this *** wants to nerf us into oblivion. It's just sad people cry "Nerf WAR nerf WAR nerf WAR" While SAM gets Shoha which seems broken at this point imo.(It out damages Kaiten/Fudo...)
I think the Abyssea team had it right as far as balance wise (razed ruins aside) and tanaka comes in and wants to "Balance" everything. Looking away from how critical hit weaponskills dominated Abyssea everything else was looking well done.
I do agree Shoha needs nerfing. I got derped when it destroys my Masamune >.>
Fudo aftermath up then shoha... why are you pissed shoha is better? lol
Yeah I'm not going to quit just because this *** wants to nerf us into oblivion. It's just sad people cry "Nerf WAR nerf WAR nerf WAR" While SAM gets Shoha which seems broken at this point imo.(It out damages Kaiten/Fudo...)
I think the Abyssea team had it right as far as balance wise (razed ruins aside) and tanaka comes in and wants to "Balance" everything. Looking away from how critical hit weaponskills dominated Abyssea everything else was looking well done.
I do agree Shoha needs nerfing. I got derped when it destroys my Masamune >.>
Fudo aftermath up then shoha... why are you pissed shoha is better? lol
Since I don't run on PC I have to say this. I keep getting told Aftamath doesn't work on other WS. Getting told otherwise it does.
nerf us into oblivion... ? really? lol hyperbole with this adjustment is all over the place. Its not like war isn't still a top DD. That's WHAT war does. edit: Furthermore, you can do what sam's with Masa now do. Empy WS at 300 tp for AM3 and just ride the new WS... not hard to grasp, y'all.
I think people are over reacting at this moment. We dont know exactly how hard Ukko's crit will be.
Im in agreement with Blood rage, imo it should have -not- been touched, it was fine the way it was.
There was nothing wrong with Victory Smite. It was the first weaponskill that monk has been given that actually can put up competitive numbers.
However we dont know the impact they will do to said adjustments.
Its probably the fact that Tanaka is behind this that we all believe it will be worse than it should have been.
Yeah I'm not going to quit just because this *** wants to nerf us into oblivion. It's just sad people cry "Nerf WAR nerf WAR nerf WAR" While SAM gets Shoha which seems broken at this point imo.(It out damages Kaiten/Fudo...)
I think the Abyssea team had it right as far as balance wise (razed ruins aside) and tanaka comes in and wants to "Balance" everything. Looking away from how critical hit weaponskills dominated Abyssea everything else was looking well done.
I do agree Shoha needs nerfing. I got derped when it destroys my Masamune >.>
Fudo aftermath up then shoha... why are you pissed shoha is better? lol
Atleast an Empy takes some effort. You camp NMs/VNMs/50 Gems/50 Lanterns/75 Hearts. Etc compared to just meriting for hours on end in some crappy dominion party, while working on a TP bonus GK. Not the mention the people who grinded out trials for relics it sucks.
Yeah I'm not going to quit just because this *** wants to nerf us into oblivion. It's just sad people cry "Nerf WAR nerf WAR nerf WAR" While SAM gets Shoha which seems broken at this point imo.(It out damages Kaiten/Fudo...)
I think the Abyssea team had it right as far as balance wise (razed ruins aside) and tanaka comes in and wants to "Balance" everything. Looking away from how critical hit weaponskills dominated Abyssea everything else was looking well done.
I do agree Shoha needs nerfing. I got derped when it destroys my Masamune >.>
Fudo aftermath up then shoha... why are you pissed shoha is better? lol
Since I don't run on PC I have to say this. I keep getting told Aftamath doesn't work on other WS. Getting told otherwise it does.
*repeats himself* Fudo to get up aftermath... then use shoha when after math is up. Then when after math comes off do fudo again. Wash Rinse Repeat. After math on empys is OcDD... it doesn't work on ws anyways.
I keep getting told Aftamath doesn't work on other WS. Getting told otherwise it does.
Using Fudo for aftermath and swapping to Shoha til you need to refresh it, affects your overall damage output and not your ws output since aftermath is for your tp phase only.
Atleast an Empy takes some effort. You camp NMs/VNMs/50 Gems/50 Lanterns/75 Hearts. Etc compared to just meriting for hours on end in some crappy dominion party, while working on a TP bonus GK. Not the mention the people who grinded out trials for relics it sucks.
I'm gonna' have to ask you to draw a completely arbitrary line between what constitutes effort and what doesn't.
Also it's like other people see [DEV] X Job Update. Then you click it and it's a nerf? Dude it really sets you up for a downer. Hook line and sinker they get your hopes up to bring them down.
Yeah I'm not going to quit just because this *** wants to nerf us into oblivion. It's just sad people cry "Nerf WAR nerf WAR nerf WAR" While SAM gets Shoha which seems broken at this point imo.(It out damages Kaiten/Fudo...)
I think the Abyssea team had it right as far as balance wise (razed ruins aside) and tanaka comes in and wants to "Balance" everything. Looking away from how critical hit weaponskills dominated Abyssea everything else was looking well done.
I do agree Shoha needs nerfing. I got derped when it destroys my Masamune >.>
Fudo aftermath up then shoha... why are you pissed shoha is better? lol
Atleast an Empy takes some effort. You camp NMs/VNMs/50 Gems/50 Lanterns/75 Hearts. Etc compared to just meriting for hours on end in some crappy dominion party, while working on a TP bonus GK. Not the mention the people who grinded out trials for relics it sucks.
So I was bored and solo'd my kannagi. I have base 80 yesterday (kk I liked I had a thf to help with th on helms) today walked up in guku camp with a bunch of jps there camping him. He pops I claim, I proc nin/war. I killed it and I left. Now to make shout group to give them +2's. I profit they profit. Win Win wasn't hard tbh.
I just wanted to say, to all the ppl arguing that you can do an empy in one week:
It's only true if you have a linkshell or some very good and dedicated friends to help you.
I made my Ukon in 2 months, and even buying 20 Glavoid shells, I had to bluburn in taronghi so much time, alone, and very little time, I got friends logged and able to help me. What I want to say is: some ppl are making empys in one week or less, and some others took a lot more of time cause they didn't want (or they couldn't) join a ls.
Imo, Ukko's Fury being more powerfull than others ws is legit, it's one of the, (if not the), hardest Empyrean weapon to make.
I choose Ukonvasara, knowing it'll be hard and a long way to achieve (solo or kinda), but knowing too that it was very powerfull. Now SE is talking about balancing jobs, and nerfing like hell. I feel really disapointed, and I hope everyone can understand the feeling we (Ukon's war)have.
It seems unfair to make such hard and boring trials, to nerf those weapons, "balancing the game", when some Empyreans like Kanagi Masamune or Greatsword are easier to make, and have already quite high dmg ws. Talk about balancing ...
Raising other ws would have hurt a little for sure, but nerfing Ukko's is really lame >.<
P.S. I'm sorry if there is some syntax errors, I'm French, hope you can understand.
good sir, my kannagi took a good 3 months due to not having dedicated LSs slaving one for me, and the severe over camping on sobek on my previous server. my wife and i had to compete through huge waves of LS allies, JP jerks with bot poppers, etc. and none of this would sway my opinion that just because it was hard for me, it shouldnt be better by lightyears.
ukko's just seems a bit too ridiculous compared to other WS, nor do i care how difficult or easy it may seem to people. you dont see quietus DRKs or cammlanns DRGs whining even though their path was much harder than yours.
Also it's like other people see [DEV] X Job Update. Then you click it and it's a nerf? Dude it really sets you up for a downer. Hook line and sinker they get your hopes up to bring them down.
I keep getting told Aftamath doesn't work on other WS. Getting told otherwise it does.
Using Fudo for aftermath and swapping to Shoha til you need to refresh it, affects your overall damage output and not your ws output since aftermath is for your tp phase only.
Atleast an Empy takes some effort. You camp NMs/VNMs/50 Gems/50 Lanterns/75 Hearts. Etc compared to just meriting for hours on end in some crappy dominion party, while working on a TP bonus GK. Not the mention the people who grinded out trials for relics it sucks.
I'm gonna' have to ask you to draw a completely arbitrary line between what constitutes effort and what doesn't.
Oh, my mistake, you've already done that.
So in your opinion equal effort would be..
Full Perle/Sub Par SAM with a TP Bonus GK and random AH WS Gear. (With Shoha 5/5) = A SAM who took pride in everything, spent time and effort on the best equipment (+2, Ace's Feet/Mail/Etc) Empy/Relic 90/95.
Then they still has to merit this crap just to be on an equal playing field? Where do you draw the line on effort?
I just wanted to say, to all the ppl arguing that you can do an empy in one week:
It's only true if you have a linkshell or some very good and dedicated friends to help you.
I made my Ukon in 2 months, and even buying 20 Glavoid shells, I had to bluburn in taronghi so much time, alone, and very little time, I got friends logged and able to help me. What I want to say is: some ppl are making empys in one week or less, and some others took a lot more of time cause they didn't want (or they couldn't) join a ls.
Imo, Ukko's Fury being more powerfull than others ws is legit, it's one of the, (if not the), hardest Empyrean weapon to make.
I choose Ukonvasara, knowing it'll be hard and a long way to achieve (solo or kinda), but knowing too that it was very powerfull. Now SE is talking about balancing jobs, and nerfing like hell. I feel really disapointed, and I hope everyone can understand the feeling we (Ukon's war)have.
It seems unfair to make such hard and boring trials, to nerf those weapons, "balancing the game", when some Empyreans like Kanagi Masamune or Greatsword are easier to make, and have already quite high dmg ws. Talk about balancing ...
Raising other ws would have hurt a little for sure, but nerfing Ukko's is really lame >.<
P.S. I'm sorry if there is some syntax errors, I'm French, hope you can understand.
good sir, my kannagi took a good 3 months due to not having dedicated LSs slaving one for me, and the severe over camping on sobek on my previous server. my wife and i had to compete through huge waves of LS allies, JP jerks with bot poppers, etc. and none of this would sway my opinion that just because it was hard for me, it shouldnt be better by lightyears.
ukko's just seems a bit too ridiculous compared to other WS, nor do i care how difficult or easy it may seem to people. you dont see quietus DRKs or cammlanns DRGs whining even though their path was much harder than yours.
Cammlanns ws blows lol they still use drakes, or the new one stardriver or what ev only using camlanns ws for aftermath. Also redemption sucks too but not a bad situational ws. And as far as taking 3 months? I took 1 week to get 80 kannagi done and I half assed it. I solo'd nin/war on the 3 demi gigas. Nin/dnc briareus. Sobek Idk honestly if I can solo consistently.
Guku is always overcamped even now >.> with 95 and 99 update making it easier for them. Either way I can always claim guku decently on my own. Shout for some members for their +2's. As long as the whm knows how to stona cure5 spam Idc if they get yellow or not. Their bad not mine. I'll try for kannagi 85 by end of next month. So projected time would be a 1 1/2 months with little to no support.
Atleast an Empy takes some effort. You camp NMs/VNMs/50 Gems/50 Lanterns/75 Hearts. Etc compared to just meriting for hours on end in some crappy dominion party, while working on a TP bonus GK. Not the mention the people who grinded out trials for relics it sucks.
I'm gonna' have to ask you to draw a completely arbitrary line between what constitutes effort and what doesn't.
Oh, my mistake, you've already done that.
So in your opinion equal effort would be..
Full Perle/Sub Par SAM with a TP Bonus GK and random AH WS Gear. (With Shoha 5/5) = A SAM who took pride in everything, spent time and effort on the best equipment (+2, Ace's Feet/Mail/Etc) Empy/Relic 90/95.
Then they still has to merit this crap just to be on an equal playing field? Where do you draw the line on effort?
Atleast an Empy takes some effort. You camp NMs/VNMs/50 Gems/50 Lanterns/75 Hearts. Etc compared to just meriting for hours on end in some crappy dominion party, while working on a TP bonus GK. Not the mention the people who grinded out trials for relics it sucks.
I'm gonna' have to ask you to draw a completely arbitrary line between what constitutes effort and what doesn't.
Oh, my mistake, you've already done that.
So in your opinion equal effort would be..
Full Perle/Sub Par SAM with a TP Bonus GK and random AH WS Gear. (With Shoha 5/5) = A SAM who took pride in everything, spent time and effort on the best equipment (+2, Ace's Feet/Mail/Etc) Empy/Relic 90/95.
Then they still has to merit this crap just to be on an equal playing field? Where do you draw the line on effort?
Any mention of equipment not pertaining to the weapon or WS in question falls under extraneous detail. You'd do best to avoid using straw men and loaded language when creating a serious rebuttal.
That said, you're trying to impose a standard of difficulty on effort that has no place in reality. Meriting is exertion with a specified purpose in mind, and building an Empyrean weapon is an exertion with a specified purpose in mind. Is one more difficult than the other? Possibly, but that's a normative judgement that depends on a myriad of factors. Given the tools at my disposal, building Empyrean weapons is nothing short of comical. A close friend literally begs that I allow him to create weapons for me.
But that's neither here nor there. The moral of the story is that both activities, by definition, take effort.
I also find it amusing that, when discussion of a power reduction in one of the strongest and most popular weapons is mentioned, there's an abundance of outcry on the basis of relative difficulty when compared to other Empyrean weapons. This outcry is conveniently absent when one considers that three fairly lackluster weapons are born of the same trials.
I think people are over reacting at this moment. We dont know exactly how hard Ukko's crit will be.
Im in agreement with Blood rage, imo it should have -not- been touched, it was fine the way it was.
There was nothing wrong with Victory Smite. It was the first weaponskill that monk has been given that actually can put up competitive numbers.
However we dont know the impact they will do to said adjustments.
Its probably the fact that Tanaka is behind this that we all believe it will be worse than it should have been.
Ok, let me try to break this down so I understand you correctly. So war hitting near +100% crit dmg wasn't too much? (in regards to blood rage) With a crit WS, no less, that wasn't even 1 hit, it was 2. Yes toning it down wasn't such a bad idea.
2) Monk had A fury. That WS put up crazy numbers in Aby. You can't deny that. Also, impetus wasn't nerfed. Can't you still hit the crit cap or close to it with that?
3) Everybody claims Abyssea made the game "easy mode". Yet people still want WICKED powerful WS outside? like Ukko's and Smite being damn powerful outside too.
Atleast an Empy takes some effort. You camp NMs/VNMs/50 Gems/50 Lanterns/75 Hearts. Etc compared to just meriting for hours on end in some crappy dominion party, while working on a TP bonus GK. Not the mention the people who grinded out trials for relics it sucks.
I'm gonna' have to ask you to draw a completely arbitrary line between what constitutes effort and what doesn't.
Oh, my mistake, you've already done that.
So in your opinion equal effort would be..
Full Perle/Sub Par SAM with a TP Bonus GK and random AH WS Gear. (With Shoha 5/5) = A SAM who took pride in everything, spent time and effort on the best equipment (+2, Ace's Feet/Mail/Etc) Empy/Relic 90/95.
Then they still has to merit this crap just to be on an equal playing field? Where do you draw the line on effort?
Any mention of equipment not pertaining to the weapon or WS in question falls under extraneous detail. You'd do best to avoid using straw men and loaded language when creating a serious rebuttal.
That said, you're trying to impose a standard of difficulty on effort that has no place in reality. Meriting is exertion with a specified purpose in mind, and building an Empyrean weapon is an exertion with a specified purpose in mind. Is one more difficult than the other? Possibly, but that's a normative judgement that depends on a myriad of factors. Given the tools at my disposal, building Empyrean weapons is nothing short of comical. A close friend literally begs that I allow him to create weapons for me.
But that's neither here nor there. The moral of the story is that both activities, by definition, take effort.
I hate to throw the cleave card in here but say you get merits afk 95% of the time. Or you have people who just half *** it and camp pages. Then what effort is there when obtaining a new weapon skill? Also I don't need a dictionary to tell me what effort is, nor do I care about you bragging about a friend who begs you for your permission to have things done for you. (Pathetic if he actually begs you imo, sounds like *** kissing.) But hey that is neither here nor there right. Though you mentioned it.
The main reason people make relic/empyrean/mythics is to have an edge over the normal. When that said norm is better then the above there is a problem.
I think people are over reacting at this moment. We dont know exactly how hard Ukko's crit will be.
Im in agreement with Blood rage, imo it should have -not- been touched, it was fine the way it was.
There was nothing wrong with Victory Smite. It was the first weaponskill that monk has been given that actually can put up competitive numbers.
However we dont know the impact they will do to said adjustments.
Its probably the fact that Tanaka is behind this that we all believe it will be worse than it should have been.
Ok, let me try to break this down so I understand you correctly. So war hitting near +100% crit dmg wasn't too much? (in regards to blood rage) With a crit WS, no less, that wasn't even 1 hit, it was 2. Yes toning it down wasn't such a bad idea.
2) Monk had A fury. That WS put up crazy numbers in Aby. You can't deny that. Also, impetus wasn't nerfed. Can't you still hit the crit cap or close to it with that?
3) Everybody claims Abyssea made the game "easy mode". Yet people still want WICKED powerful WS outside? like Ukko's and Smite being damn powerful outside too.
Voidwatch made many DDs equals more or less. The damage I'm whining about isn't in Abyssea. You can destroy things with a B in club skill spamming True Strike. Abyssea is overpowered I agree. My main complaint is Tanaka is trying to pigeon hole people again into X Best Job for say VW.
Impetus wasn't nerfed but I am honestly thinking it is next.
Atleast an Empy takes some effort. You camp NMs/VNMs/50 Gems/50 Lanterns/75 Hearts. Etc compared to just meriting for hours on end in some crappy dominion party, while working on a TP bonus GK. Not the mention the people who grinded out trials for relics it sucks.
I'm gonna' have to ask you to draw a completely arbitrary line between what constitutes effort and what doesn't.
Oh, my mistake, you've already done that.
So in your opinion equal effort would be..
Full Perle/Sub Par SAM with a TP Bonus GK and random AH WS Gear. (With Shoha 5/5) = A SAM who took pride in everything, spent time and effort on the best equipment (+2, Ace's Feet/Mail/Etc) Empy/Relic 90/95.
Then they still has to merit this crap just to be on an equal playing field? Where do you draw the line on effort?
Any mention of equipment not pertaining to the weapon or WS in question falls under extraneous detail. You'd do best to avoid using straw men and loaded language when creating a serious rebuttal.
That said, you're trying to impose a standard of difficulty on effort that has no place in reality. Meriting is exertion with a specified purpose in mind, and building an Empyrean weapon is an exertion with a specified purpose in mind. Is one more difficult than the other? Possibly, but that's a normative judgement that depends on a myriad of factors. Given the tools at my disposal, building Empyrean weapons is nothing short of comical. A close friend literally begs that I allow him to create weapons for me.
But that's neither here nor there. The moral of the story is that both activities, by definition, take effort.
I hate to throw the cleave card in here but say you get merits afk 95% of the time. Or you have people who just half *** it and camp pages. Then what effort is there when obtaining a new weapon skill? Also I don't need a dictionary to tell me what effort is, nor do I care about you bragging about a friend who begs you for your permission to have things done for you. (Pathetic if he actually begs you imo, sounds like *** kissing.) But hey that is neither here nor there right. Though you mentioned it.
The main reason people make relic/empyrean/mythics is to have an edge over the normal. When that said norm is better then the above there is a problem.
It's interesting that you mention cleaving merits, a service, yet implicitly deny the existence of purchased Empyrean weapons, which is also a service.
And while you may be fully aware of the definition of effort (given your rebuttal, I'm not entirely sure of this), you don't seem to have picked up on the concept of a straw man fallacy, what with the fact that you utilized one once again(highlighted for clarity).
What lol ? We call it blade: low. Or are you talking about abyssea damage again /sigh
No way man Blade Hi is fine.
Too many ninja's lol its not fine. Kannagi has to be 1 of the most obtained empy across all servers.
EDIT: Need to upgrade PLD and take a crap on ninja :P
