Miser's is good because you can combine it with Save TP Atmacite for 45 TP return.
It's not going to let you solo-skillchain with just WS outside of Voidwatch, although you might technically have the capability of doing that when combined with the Save TP atmacite.
That said, you can't solo SC in VW reliably, it's not even worth trying.
The Last Dance: Gearing Paradigms For A New Age
The Last Dance: Gearing Paradigms for a New Age
If I look at the fight last night:
Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's
I'm pretty sure at least two of them skillchained. My WAR sucks so bad, lol. I haven't even gotten the level 90 gear for it yet.
Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's -> Ukko's
I'm pretty sure at least two of them skillchained. My WAR sucks so bad, lol. I haven't even gotten the level 90 gear for it yet.
You get lucky sometimes, lol. But there are just too many people going off all at once.
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Miser's is good because you can combine it with Save TP Atmacite for 45 TP return.
Quote:
That said, you can't solo SC in VW reliably, it's not even worth trying.
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Also, this seems impossible except at capped haste and even then, it depends on getting lucky with double attacks and job ability delay puts it in the unreliable category.
This is on top of the fact that a "12-hit build after WS" on DNC is pretty ludicrous with what you'd need to sacrifice to obtain it.
Without making any ridiculous sacrifices, you end up with a 11-hit after lucky miser's roll.
Also I'm pretty done with this, because I feel like an idiot whenever I discuss an X-hit when X > 6.
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Also, this seems impossible except at capped haste and even then, it depends on getting lucky with double attacks and job ability delay puts it in the unreliable category.
This is on top of the fact that a "12-hit build after WS" on DNC is pretty ludicrous with what you'd need to sacrifice to obtain it.
Without making any ridiculous sacrifices, you end up with a 11-hit after lucky miser's roll.
Also I'm pretty done with this, because I feel like an idiot whenever I discuss an X-hit when X > 6.
you can feel like an idiot all you want about discussing X-hits, but when it opens ***up like that you are over-looking serious stuff.
edit: also you make it seem like under normal circumstances dnc cannot cap delay (or get damn near close) without outside help
you need haste
+marches
+a corsair
to really even have a chance of making it work
in virtually all situations, you get to pick a maximum of two of those.
+marches
+a corsair
to really even have a chance of making it work
in virtually all situations, you get to pick a maximum of two of those.
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
you need haste
+marches
+a corsair
to really even have a chance of making it work
in virtually all situations, you get to pick a maximum of two of those.
+marches
+a corsair
to really even have a chance of making it work
in virtually all situations, you get to pick a maximum of two of those.
okay, prove that it works then.
my math puts capped haste (marches +spell) + lucky misers + 21 STP + /SAM + saber dance --> requires on average 4.86 seconds of melee to get back to 100 after a WS.
JA delay is 1 second, so 5.86 seconds. Skillchain window is something like 5-6 seconds? That's cutting it close.
This is also expecting that no one else is using weaponskills, ever.
my math puts capped haste (marches +spell) + lucky misers + 21 STP + /SAM + saber dance --> requires on average 4.86 seconds of melee to get back to 100 after a WS.
JA delay is 1 second, so 5.86 seconds. Skillchain window is something like 5-6 seconds? That's cutting it close.
This is also expecting that no one else is using weaponskills, ever.
By the way, new Waltz Potency Cap ----> 50%
napkin math
miser's perfect is what +25?
exentorator gives me a 11 TP return normally
normal af3 TP setup with coruscanti/thockcha 5.2 tp a hit typical delay 101.62~
means you need to get 64~ TP, which is 13 hits, 13 hits without double attack is roughly 11 seconds
so with saber dance as well as the remaining double attack from equipment your average TP phase should be about 6 seconds.
miser's perfect is what +25?
exentorator gives me a 11 TP return normally
normal af3 TP setup with coruscanti/thockcha 5.2 tp a hit typical delay 101.62~
means you need to get 64~ TP, which is 13 hits, 13 hits without double attack is roughly 11 seconds
so with saber dance as well as the remaining double attack from equipment your average TP phase should be about 6 seconds.
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
This is also expecting that no one else is using weaponskills, ever.
1.) Exenterator is a bad WS to use as an example, since it has unfortunate skillchain properties. Other WS favor your idea more anyway.
2.) 11 seconds goes to ---> 7.97 seconds with 38% double attack.
2.) 11 seconds goes to ---> 7.97 seconds with 38% double attack.
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
This is also expecting that no one else is using weaponskills, ever.
If you have a BRD + COR + DNC in the same party, you damn well better be zerging something.
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
1.) Exenterator is a bad WS to use, since it has unfortunate skillchain properties.
2.) 11 seconds goes to ---> 7.97 seconds with 38% double attack.
2.) 11 seconds goes to ---> 7.97 seconds with 38% double attack.
The important part of that was 7.97 seconds.
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
This is also expecting that no one else is using weaponskills, ever.
If you have a BRD + COR + DNC in the same party, you damn well better be zerging something.
You haven't convinced me it's possible without a bard.
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
The important part of that was 7.97 seconds.
aka not even trying, and you get close
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
You haven't convinced me it's possible without a bard.
7.97 seconds isn't anywhere near close.
Using 36 TP return from WS, Corus/Thokcha, STP+21, /SAM, Haste+Haste Samba, 48% Dual Wield, 38% DA, you get avg. 7.27 seconds.
/sam change of neck, ammo, back and ring puts me at 6.29 seconds with 33% double attack, im kinda trying now.
Not using /SAM you get 7.81.
Add one to everything due to JA delay.
Add one to everything due to JA delay.
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Not using /SAM you get 7.81.
Add one to everything due to JA delay.
Add one to everything due to JA delay.
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Not using /SAM you get 7.81.
Add one to everything due to JA delay.
Add one to everything due to JA delay.
Your original 11 is 10.79 before JA delay (so 11.79)
I've been calculating without JA delay as a factor (nothing we do can reduce it, so it's inconvenient to have in there), so add 1 to all of my numbers.
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Not using /SAM you get 7.81.
Add one to everything due to JA delay.
Add one to everything due to JA delay.
Your original 11 is 10.79 before JA delay (so 11.79)
I've been calculating without JA delay as a factor (nothing we do can reduce it, so it's inconvenient to have in there), so add 1 to all of my numbers.
edit: because last i checked they use tacticians all the time when i played, which wasnt long ago
Even with +50 store TP added without interfering with haste or DA, it's still not working.
Not to mention all of these factors assume lucky Miser's.
Not to mention all of these factors assume lucky Miser's.
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
Bismarck.Sylow said: »
Not using /SAM you get 7.81.
Add one to everything due to JA delay.
Add one to everything due to JA delay.
Your original 11 is 10.79 before JA delay (so 11.79)
I've been calculating without JA delay as a factor (nothing we do can reduce it, so it's inconvenient to have in there), so add 1 to all of my numbers.
If you're going to try to rely on tactician's, lucky tactician's doesn't even make it reliable if you can somehow magically get 3 tics in 5 seconds.
no i just find it odd how you only included 1 roll but was so quick to add a bard.
also you really only need 2~ tics to make it solid anyways.
also you really only need 2~ tics to make it solid anyways.
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