The Last Dance: Gearing Paradigms For A New Age

Has anyone noticed that while Enmity from damage dealt and magical cures have been significantly reduced, its appears at least to me that this did not trickle into Enmity from waltz cures. DNC can get hate anytime is wants simply with DW2, much less all the other stuff discussed.

Yes in the Feb 18th update enmity from damage dealt was reduced, also enmity generation from runes was halved, but the recast time was halved also, so you can very quickly Lunge->Rune->Swipe->Rune.
Enmity generation of waltzes has never been reduced based on my experience

from the Feb version update notes:
Feb 18, 2014 (JST) Version Update
But yeah I was toying around with /run before the patch and after the update it just made pulling hate even easier because delay capped full buffed top tier DD jobs like mnk don't pull ahead on hate just by punching and ws spamming.

The update was designed more so paladin and runefencer mains could hold hate better, but it also applies to dancers that can fill a hybrid tank role.

I meant to test this hypothesis this weekend but forgot. Quoting this so I'll remember.

Also, how's that job point farming going, Dancers?
I've farmed enough XP to cap merits for every job now. iirc. By the time I cap out, I will have farmed enough xp to level every job in the game to 99.

Polyhymnia: DMG:95 Delay:194 Attack+13 Evasion+22 Dagger skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Magic Accuracy skill +188 Enmity-10 Samba: "Regain"+10

Keep in mind Regain +10 actually means 1/tick unless we're living on the moon now.

Just seeing regain makes me drool running around getting tp is <3 guess that's my new perm offhand lol. Ouch - 10 enimity not so fast lol I tank on dancer ouch lol.

FWIW this dagger's pointless for Fan Dance anyway.

It depends how this dagger is implemented, but if it is 1tp/tick with samba up for the user, that would be 40TP per Haste Samba and I have no reason to even look for this knife.

Yeah but you have the end all be all dnc dagger if I recall this is for the little guy like my mule lol.

At 40 TP it might not even be better for us proles considering the loss of stats from Sabebus or whatever people are OHing these days.

I'm assuming that this weapon is stage 1 of Adoulin Mythics.

There are two ways that the weapon could be useful:
1) Make the Regain apply to everyone who benefits from the Samba (hits the monster).
2) Increase the regain. If we could get it up to +5 (100 TP/minute) then we would really be talking.

I am curious about the new throwing item though...

I'm assuming these weapons are not aimed at already well geared players, but the dagger would be a definite improvement for someone like me right now. As a returning player in a very small linkshell of low demand jobs getting hold of things like Delve weapons or Skirmish+2s is a bit of a challenge with our current gear/setup options.

If I'm honest the regain is not all that exciting to me right now compared to the relative ease of acquiring a second high damage dagger (Nanti is the other option, but I've yet to see one on sale), especially once you factor in Fan Dance killing the regain effect completely. It basically just makes Haste Samba pay for itself. If it procs while idling I suppose it would be worth popping Drain Samba if there is nothing better to do, but it's hardly an impressive or efficient way to gain TP, and certainly not a reason to replace a better dagger if you have one.

I don't have a better one though, and I can't see myself obsoleting this dagger all that soon so I may well consider investing in it once the initial price hike calms down. Unless anyone has any better suggestions for an easy to acquire 119 dagger that I've missed.

In your situation, yeah. I'd go with this knife and Nanti Knife. When the prices settle, they'll probably run you about 6mil combined.

If you can get the Tier 4/5 Marjami clear, Sabebus isn't a bad option either but you'll probably want to upgrade it with Airlixirs so it's hardly the cheapest path.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I thought. Dropping a few mil on weapons (one of which may retain some resale value) is not an issue; the investment will likely pay for itself.

Sabebus is sadly out of reach as we've not yet started Delving, so I don't have the plasm at present even if I did get the KI. It's something I may look at when we do though. The catch is that I want better weaponry for when we start content like Delve, not after :P

So is the new dagger worth putting together as an offhand for Iz over r15 saebus?

It is worse than a R15 path A Sabebus (D+9, STR+7, No real attack difference). STR+7 is going to be good for another 1-2 fSTR on both hands, so that's effectively another D+2-4, average of D+3.5.

13% higher base damage vs. 1 TP/tick with Samba up.

Thank you, won't bother then. While I'm here, and forgive my failmath skills, but at 4/5, exenterator is the best WS against dyna mobs, correct? I've been seeing a lot of competition using evisceration in there and was wondering if I was wasting my merit ws or something.

Im on my phone so please excuse typos. I've been meaning to ask if any other dancers are using twashtars... bc I find using mine does nothing but hurt my dps. I've started off handing it for iziikoh instead. My dps spreadsheet isn't working atm so I'm wondering if its even worth offhanding anymore with the new daggers.

Twashtar is a miserable weapon at the moment even at 119.

i tried to read back a few pages but lost concentration, what's the best dagger ws for dnc at the moment?

In most situations where you use DNC, Exenterator if you don't have Terpsichore or Pyrrhic Kleos (by a little) if you do.

In rare situations, Evisceration.

If you have Climactic Flourish up, maybe Rudra's Storm.




So, here was my long skillchain script:
But now I have Trance, which gives me another 100 TP! How can I make this skillchain 1 WS longer without ruining it? >:/ I wish we got access to a fusion WS!

The only beneficial thing I can think of so far is using Trance instead of the starred Reverse Flourish, pushing those TP-abilities down 1, and using Building Flourish before the final Rudra's Storm.

AFAICT, I think the best combo would be Izhiikoh in main, with Sabebus in offhand, but I could be wrong.

I do like a stacked rude storm but man have I seen some cray variance on damage 5k - 350 damage lol.

thank you for the responses

General noob questions from an aspiring DNC.

Obviously, with the new Adoulin gear a lot of the old equipment guides are no longer that valuable. However, what I didn't expect to change were the actual mechanics of how DNC was played.

I'm hearing that self-skill chaining is out of fashion and that Presto-Step followed by an immediate Reverse Flourish for TP is best. No Foot Rise is used only if that step misses, and then Reverse Flourish.

I can see this in party settings, where WSes are generally uncontrolled and skill chains are harder to pull off. Does the above also apply while soloing? (I don't expect to be invited DNC for serious content, so I'm looking at low-man/easy content.)

If the above is true, is it simply the concern that any TP above 100 will go to waste with the WS? I see that with Presto-Step-Reverse, you have a 3-second delay to your next attack, whereas with Presto-Step, cooldown, then Step-Reverse gives the TP of 5 steps with only an extra second delay, which seems more efficient. But that's not worth it of the TP gets wasted.

And apparently, I need to level SAM as a sub now, for extra TP gain. :P

Any constructive advice is welcome. Thanks!

I can't speak for others, but I try and get away with as much as I can on DNC, which is rather a lot, these days, thanks to the powerhouse that is the Maxixi Casaque +1, Maxixi Toe Shoes, and Horos Tiara giving us 34% extra waltz healing potency, 36% if you make the effort to +1 the Horos Tiara, +6% more if we're healing ourselves, and add another 5% from the available-again Roundel Earring, I've seen my CW3 heal almost 900 HP.

I tend to go the "Presto + Step", wait for Step cooldown, then Step again, WS, RF, and then WS again as my rotation, unless I'm tanking (hi there, Macrocosmic Orb fights, at least on Normal), in which case I keep the steps going and RF when I need the extra TP for healing.

Is it the most efficient way to play? Maybe not. But I know that it works for me. The key to DNC, as with any job, is to find a playstyle that works for you, and practice to be the best you can. DNC is very versatile, but it needs experience to know when you can have Saber Dance + Haste Samba going for max damage output, and when you need to hit the "OS" button and switch to Fan Dance to avoid eating dirt.

DNC's playstyle varies a lot between different situations. We have some tools that are difficulty to use in a party setting (like self-skillchains) or have penalties (like JA Delay) that are difficult to ***. In no particular order ...

Steps:
I have three step modes:
1) Don't Step at all - Old content with high Haste.
2) Only Step when I can combine it with another ability usage - Current endgame trash monsters
3) Try to maintain Sluggish or Lethargic Daze Lv.5 - Current endgame boss monsters
You always want to try to combine a Step with another ability use, but against some current endgame bosses I feel it is worth sacrificing a little more damage to maintain the buff for the party. I use Presto between monsters in mode #2 and I use it when it's up in mode #3. I never find myself wanting to use Feather Step or the forgotten stepchild (Stutter Step), but I can't really back that preference up with anything.

No Foot Rise:
This is useful for giving quick TP. You could use it when you miss a step, but I typically use it and Reverse (or vice versa) between monsters.

Reverse Flourish:
Reverse Flourish allows us to make self-skillchains, which is the most efficient use of our Finishing Moves bar none. However, in party settings with Marches it is difficult (not impossible) to pull off self-skillchains. That does not mean that you need to stop skillchaining. You just need to watch your allies' TP, know the skillchain chart, and skillchain off them. Now, you don't want to waste finishing moves, so if you are about to re-engage/Presto+Step and have FMs from the previous monster, you should reverse flourish between monsters.

Wild Flourish:
Self-skillchains against old content are often overkill. In such situations, it is better to use Wild Flourish -> WS and spend fewer FMs for a smaller WS damage boost (+60%) that overkills less. This is our second most efficient way to convert FMs into damage. Unfortunately it relies on skillchain mechanics again. Remember to wait a second or two after Wild Flourish before WSing or it won't skillchain. I like to do:
Presto (before engaging) -> Wild Flourish -> Box Step -> WS
because it enforces that delay and restores my FMs (and often burns extra TP that I had from the previous monster). Be aware that Wild Flourish will not take effect if the monster has recently been WSed and the skillchain window for that WS is still open. It also only works with level 1 skillchain properties.

Sambas:
There's pretty much only Haste Samba. Unless you're killing one or two EEP monsters and warping (or using Fan Dance), you should have it up.

Saber Dance:
If you are fighting old content monsters (capped evade rate, low damage/hit, etc.) then you should probably be using this ability full-time. Unless you currently need to Waltz or need Fan Dance's durability, this ability could be up.

Fan Dance:
Fan Dance is for moments where you're willing to sacrifice Haste Samba in exchange for physical durability. In the past, people hit this ability after being dropped by a big unexpected TP move. Now, fulltiming it is useful against the more one-shotty current endgame (like AAs).

Waltz:
Use it if you or your party is dying. If you have a WHM in your party, there should be no need to Waltz most of the time.

Misc:
Climactic Flourish - Useful with Rudra's Storm. Probably our best option from Flourishes III
Building Flourish - Sort of a second-tier buff like Wild Flourish. It'll increase your damage (sometimes), but not as much as the 1/2 a WS that it costs you.
Animated Flourish - It's Provoke with 2 FMs. Seems like a waste to me most of the time.
Striking/Ternary Flourish - These increase damage, but are a less efficient expenditure than Reverse or Wild Flourish.
Violent Flourish - Use it to stun. Its maximum stun rate is 95%, so don't strategically rely on it if you are dealing with bad TP moves.

Thanks all, this was super helpful! :D

SE releases stupidly grindy job point system that will barely improve my job:


Mission accomplished

So BG says that the job points needed for each upgrade increases per level so I wanted to make sure... Was the last level in each of those 2 categories 10 job points each?