Senate moves to limit debate on unconstitutional legislation
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Wednesday, November 30, 2011
The Senate has cleared the way for a final vote tomorrow on the National Defense Authorization Act, a provision of which would empower the U.S. military to operate on American soil, arrest American citizens and cart them off to detention centers anywhere in the world.
Detention
After the failure yesterday of an amendment that would have weakened Section 1031 of the NDAA bill, which would turn the entire “homeland” into a battlefield and allow the military to arrest individuals accused of being terrorists and detain them indefinitely without trial, the Senate voted 88-12 today to limit debate on the legislation, clearing it for passage tomorrow.
“A final vote on the bill could come as early as Thursday,” reports the Associated Press.
The provision was hashed out in secret by Senators Carl Levin and John McCain. Lindsay Graham, a supporter of the bill, explained that it would, “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and people can be imprisoned without charge or trial “American citizen or not.”
Republican Congressman Justin Amash called the provision of the bill, “one of the most anti-liberty pieces of legislation of our lifetime,” adding that the language had been “carefully crafted to mislead the public” in that the proposed law “does not preclude U.S. citizens from being detained indefinitely, without charge or trial, it simply makes such detention discretionary.”
Amash has been joined in his opposition to the bill by Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, who has introduced an amendment to strike Section 1031 from the legislation altogether. When Paul confronted McCain on the provision earlier this week, McCain confirmed that it would apply to American citizens accused of being terrorists.
Paul warned yesterday that the passage of the bill could see U.S. citizens arrested on American soil and sent to Guantanamo Bay.
Although the Obama administration has threatened to veto the bill, some observers believe Obama would rather avoid a political hot potato and sign it into law anyway.
“He has said he will. Whether he will is a difficult question because, politically, it’s difficult to veto a defense spending bill that 680 pages long and includes authorization to spend on a whole range of military programs,” Daphne Eviatar, Senior Associate, Human Rights First’s Law and Security Program, told Democracy Now.
*********************
Paul Joseph Watson is the editor and writer for Prison Planet.com. He is the author of Order Out Of Chaos. Watson is also a regular fill-in host for The Alex Jones Show.
Seems like our own media fails to even mention something like this. What would it mean for protesters or even those who organize them? What would it mean to freedom of speech.
Every single day another bit of our freedom is stripped away.. I wouldn't be surprised if in 50 years the US Govt became like the church in 15th century.. Won't even be able to criticize or question the Govt, they'll just rush in and take you out. You'll have to mind every last word you say for fear it might be misinterpreted.
To be honest maruraba we can write 1,000,000 letters. if they dont want to change their minds nothing we can do about it, other than attempt (if they dont rig it) is to get them out of office asap.
To be honest maruraba we can write 1,000,000 letters. if they dont want to change their minds nothing we can do about it, other than attempt (if they dont rig it) is to get them out of office asap.
The voice of the people can in fact be heard. Did you see what happened to SOPA?
People aren't politically active enough. When they are, things change.
We must stop waiting for people to save us from ourselves, and pull ourselves up out of our own mess.
Dont get me wrong, i think people should protest things like this and others, but i personally dont have a ton of faith in our elected officails. They are out for themselves and their own interests not all of the time but most of the time.
Yes, many of us want change. Yes, the voice of many can make changes. And yes, "complaining" about it on ffxiah.com will not make those changes. But there's nothing wrong with having a discussion about these issues wherever we please. Thanks for the advice though. >.>
Dont get me wrong, i think people should protest things like this and others, but i personally dont have a ton of faith in our elected officails. They are out for themselves and their own interests not all of the time but most of the time.
Oh, I don't disagree with that at all!
I truly believe though that on average, people are not particularly politically motivated. We have got to work to make the system work!
@Yomisha: I wasn't saying that complaining on FFXIAH was a bad idea. I am saying that ONLY doing that and not taking an active role in opposing bad legislation is.
And like Mrfrodo, I agree that our government sometimes does things on their own without real consideration of what the people want. However, even though doing something can be futile, it can change things. Doing nothing will never change anything.
Let's be constructive: If you're a U.S. citizen, then look up your senator and tell them you oppose that provision. I'll even give you the link, and most of them even have web forms to email them. If they get a huge volume of mail on the subject, they might think twice about voting for this kind of nonsense.
Obama better veto this ***. I'm going to write him an email now to make sure.
I'm starting to think it's entirely a trap.
If Obama vetos it, GOP will rise up and *** about him not supporting the military.
If Obama doesn't veto it... well it pretty much lets them paint him as a Constitution trampling dictator but even my little faith in Obama will be strained.
WASHINGTON -- The Senate voted Tuesday to keep a controversial provision to let the military detain terrorism suspects on U.S. soil and hold them indefinitely without trial -- prompting White House officials to reissue a veto threat.
The measure, part of the massive National Defense Authorization Act, was also opposed by civil libertarians on the left and right. But 16 Democrats and an independent joined with Republicans to defeat an amendment by Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) that would have killed the provision, voting it down with 61 against, and 37 for it.
"I'm very, very, concerned about having U.S. citizens sent to Guantanamo Bay for indefinite detention," said Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), one of the Senate's most conservative members.
Paul's top complaint is that a terrorism suspect would get just one hearing where the military could assert that the person is a suspected terrorist -- and then they could be locked up for life, without ever formally being charged. The only safety valve is a waiver from the secretary of defense.
"It's not enough just to be alleged to be a terrorist," Paul said, echoing the views of the American Civil Liberties Union. "That's part of what due process is -- deciding, are you a terrorist? I think it's important that we not allow U.S. citizens to be taken."
Democrats who were also concerned about liberties compared the military policing of Americans to the detention of Americans in internment camps during World War II.
"Congress is essentially authorizing the indefinite imprisonment of American citizens, without charge," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who offered another amendment -- which has not yet gotten a vote -- that she said would correct the problem. "We are not a nation that locks up its citizens without charge."
Backers of military detention of Americans -- a measure crafted by Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) -- came out swinging against Udall's amendment on the Senate floor earlier Tuesday.
"The enemy is all over the world. Here at home. And when people take up arms against the United States and [are] captured within the United States, why should we not be able to use our military and intelligence community to question that person as to what they know about enemy activity?" Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said.
"They should not be read their Miranda Rights. They should not be given a lawyer," Graham said. "They should be held humanely in military custody and interrogated about why they joined al Qaeda and what they were going to do to all of us."
In criticizing the measure, White House officials said that it would cause confusion and interfere with a counterterrorism effort that has been remarkably successful since Sept. 11, 2001 -- across two administrations.
"It is likely that implementing such procedures would inject significant confusion into counterterrorism operations," the White House argued in a Nov. 17 statement.
Further, it contended:
This unnecessary, untested, and legally controversial restriction of the President's authority to defend the Nation from terrorist threats would tie the hands of our intelligence and law enforcement professionals. Moreover, applying this military custody requirement to individuals inside the United States, as some Members of Congress have suggested is their intention, would raise serious and unsettled legal questions and would be inconsistent with the fundamental American principle that our military does not patrol our streets. We have spent ten years since September 11, 2001, breaking down the walls between intelligence, military, and law enforcement professionals; Congress should not now rebuild those walls and unnecessarily make the job of preventing terrorist attacks more difficult.
A White House official said the administration stands by the veto threat. "We take this very, very seriously," the official said.
Both FBI Director Robert Mueller and Director of National Intelligence James Clapper backed up the White House with letters sent to congressional leaders. Clapper echoed the charge that the measure creates uncertainty and added that it could prevent intelligence operatives from getting critical information from suspects.
And although the measure allows the secretary of defense to waive it, both Mueller and Clapper said that could prove unworkable in the real world.
Mueller added that it could even stop the FBI from investigating individuals who fall under the definitions of suspected terrorist in the measure.
The 2012 National Defense Authorization Act would authorize defense spending on military personnel, weapons and war. The first draft of the bill won support from both parties in Congress in October, passing out of the Senate Armed Services Committee with just Udall dissenting. A similar House bill allocating $690 billion for the Pentagon passed in May, without the controversial measure. It could be changed when the differing versions are merged, if Congress desires.
The detention provision whipped up a furor in both parties, with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) having already text delayed the vote over it.
The final vote showed bizarre fractures among Democrats, erasing the usual barriers between conservatives and liberals. The 16 who voted for the harsh detainee rules were Sens. Bob Casey (Pa.), Kent Conrad (N.D.), Kay Hagan (N.C.), Daniel Inouye (Hawaii), Herb Kohl (Wis.), Mary Landrieu (La.), Carl Levin (Mich.), Joe Manchin (W. Va.), Clair McCaskill (Mo.), Robert Menendez (N.J.), Ben Nelson (Neb.), Mark Pryor (Ark.), Jack Reed (R.I.), Jeanne Shaheen (N.H.), Debbie Stabenow (Mich.) and Sheldon Whitehouse (R.I.). National defense hawk and independent Sen. Joe Lieberman (Conn.) also voted in favor of the tougher language.
"It's one of those things where ... it's bipartisan on both sides. Levin's not on the same page as the White House. We've got our own internal differences; Paul and Kirk don't agree with Graham," said a senior GOP aide just before the vote. "Everybody's trying to do the right thing. There's just a difference of opinion."
Even though Paul was joined only by Sen. Mark Kirk (R-Ill.) on his side of the aisle, the issue was contentious at the Republicans' weekly caucus lunch.
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) emerged from the meeting -- where former Vice President *** Cheney was in attendance -- saying his colleagues had "a spirited discussion" about Udall's amendment, and predicted nearly all Republicans would oppose the amendment, as they did.
Update 10:30 p.m.
Sen. Menendez later sought, and was granted, unanimous consent from the Senate to change his vote. He is now recorded as supporting the Udall amendment, with the final tally changed to 38 to 60.
Obama better veto this ***. I'm going to write him an email now to make sure.
I'm starting to think it's entirely a trap.
If Obama vetos it, GOP will rise up and *** about him not supporting the military.
If Obama doesn't veto it... well it pretty much lets them paint him as a Constitution trampling dictator but even my little faith in Obama will be strained.
Quote:
Fortunately, President Obama has threatened to veto the Defense Authorization Act. Republicans, especially the gang competing for their party’s presidential nomination, will jump all over him if he does that.
Don’t be fooled by their fear-mongering. The act does not actually allocate money for the military. The appropriations bill does that. Mr. Obama can use his veto power without hurting the military. In fact, our national security depends to a very real extent on him keeping his word.
Every single day another bit of our freedom is stripped away.. I wouldn't be surprised if in 50 years the US Govt became like the church in 15th century.. Won't even be able to criticize or question the Govt, they'll just rush in and take you out. You'll have to mind every last word you say for fear it might be misinterpreted.
I hate the wall street protesters, yeah I know protesting has been a part of America since the beginning , but 1/2 the protesters these days don't even know what they're protesting, Its been a while now, and i still barely even know what there protesting, "corporations are not people", is all ive heard.
Also, why cant our police force handle this? >_> or better yet get this guy...............
So, how many of you have taken the initiative and written to your senators and/or the president about it? If you haven't, don't worry, I'm sure that complaining about it on FFXIAH.com will have an impact.
I'm not complaining, I am letting other people see what is happening because main stream media fails to even mention this. So before you try and assume complaining is all I am doing. Consider this please, If I just write to congress and don't spread the word what would just one letter do? Now if I write to them and spread the word it makes a much bigger impact if I tell everyone I know. Then those people in turn write congress and spread the word and do the same. Then those people and so forth.
Don't assume all I'm doing is complaining I'm willing to sacrifice, protest and even fight to get things back on track with this country. But this is something we need to do without violence here even if we are willing to fight for it.
Quote:
The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. So it goes. ... Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.
~ Dr. Martin Luther King ~
What worries me is this, the goverment or corporations that fund the goverment get sick of our protests. Some how they find a way to enact martial law. The military then polices major cities and anyone demonstrated can be legally taken away and thrown in a prison camp and have no rights basically. Cops are already abusing people for protesting with their own first ammendment rights. If things turn violent it will give them a reason to do this.
Senate moves to limit debate on unconstitutional legislation
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Wednesday, November 30, 2011
The Senate has cleared the way for a final vote tomorrow on the National Defense Authorization Act, a provision of which would empower the U.S. military to operate on American soil, arrest American citizens and cart them off to detention centers anywhere in the world.
Detention
After the failure yesterday of an amendment that would have weakened Section 1031 of the NDAA bill, which would turn the entire “homeland” into a battlefield and allow the military to arrest individuals accused of being terrorists and detain them indefinitely without trial, the Senate voted 88-12 today to limit debate on the legislation, clearing it for passage tomorrow.
“A final vote on the bill could come as early as Thursday,” reports the Associated Press.
The provision was hashed out in secret by Senators Carl Levin and John McCain. Lindsay Graham, a supporter of the bill, explained that it would, “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and people can be imprisoned without charge or trial “American citizen or not.”
Republican Congressman Justin Amash called the provision of the bill, “one of the most anti-liberty pieces of legislation of our lifetime,” adding that the language had been “carefully crafted to mislead the public” in that the proposed law “does not preclude U.S. citizens from being detained indefinitely, without charge or trial, it simply makes such detention discretionary.”
Amash has been joined in his opposition to the bill by Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, who has introduced an amendment to strike Section 1031 from the legislation altogether. When Paul confronted McCain on the provision earlier this week, McCain confirmed that it would apply to American citizens accused of being terrorists.
Paul warned yesterday that the passage of the bill could see U.S. citizens arrested on American soil and sent to Guantanamo Bay.
Although the Obama administration has threatened to veto the bill, some observers believe Obama would rather avoid a political hot potato and sign it into law anyway.
“He has said he will. Whether he will is a difficult question because, politically, it’s difficult to veto a defense spending bill that 680 pages long and includes authorization to spend on a whole range of military programs,” Daphne Eviatar, Senior Associate, Human Rights First’s Law and Security Program, told Democracy Now.
*********************
Paul Joseph Watson is the editor and writer for Prison Planet.com. He is the author of Order Out Of Chaos. Watson is also a regular fill-in host for The Alex Jones Show.
Seems like our own media fails to even mention something like this. What would it mean for protesters or even those who organize them? What would it mean to freedom of speech.