New Greatsword WS

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2010-06-21
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New Greatsword WS
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 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-12-02 02:09:27  
Diabolos.Raelia said: »
Still continuing my bitchfest tirade on the official forums to see if I can get SE to make Entropy an eight hit WS (two hits per swing). With an INT mod it wouldn't be that overpowered actually, for the same reasons as above on an even more extreme level, but oh to have those e-peen Souleater shots...

Are you on crack? Yes it would.

Lets assume you're using Death Scythe with a paltry 100 INT.
(97+85)*8 = 1456 damage before pDIF

Now lets assume you're using Torcleaver with 150 VIT, 300TP and a level 95 Caladbolg:
(132+76)*6.5 = 1352 damage before pDIF

BRB. WSing harder than a 300TP Caladbolg Torcleaver with my NQ Death Scythe!

If you used a level 95 Redemption and 150 INT with your proposed 8-hit scythe WS:
(150+127)*8 = 2216 damage before pDIF

So you're advocating a weaponskill that's stronger than (arguably) the best current WS combination for DRK by almost 10% when you use a level 75 weapon and shitty build, and is better by almost 65% when you use a comparable weapon/build. And that would be its 100TP strength instead of 300TP.

tl;dr: No, 8 fTP WSs with a high modifier using a 2H weapon would be stupidly strong.

Edit: In case you didn't realize, SE's merit descriptions are misleading and appear to consider alpha as part of the WS mod. So when they say +17% INT mod, they actually mean +20%*alpha. The final mod is 100% INT*alpha, which is still .85.

Edit2: Positive fSTR just increases the gap between the WS damages, which is why I ignored it.
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 Leviathan.Quetzacoatl
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-12-02 02:17:29  
okay, here is what I was using from what I had on my character on the test server, with slim pickings, since it won't let me update it periodically:

Resolution:


Entropy (diamond ring with INT+3 augment):


again, damage here
By volkom 2011-12-02 02:38:12  
would onyx sollerets be any good with resolution?
 Cerberus.Vaness
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By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-12-02 02:46:04  
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: »
okay, here is what I was using from what I had on my character on the test server, with slim pickings, since it won't let me update it periodically:

Resolution:


Entropy (diamond ring with INT+3 augment):


again, damage here
Well is it considered as good for some1 that still use twilight scythe and Naglering(Inorite, I need to upgrade but I hate GS and I never play drk so I have an excuse I guess? ._.)?

Would it be worth getting for some1 that don't plan on doing any empy/relic?
 Leviathan.Quetzacoatl
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-12-02 02:59:29  
You would probably get tons of skill-ups with Resolution anyway, so I'd go for it regardless of weapon
 Diabolos.Raelia
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By Diabolos.Raelia 2011-12-02 03:12:44  
Leviathan.Quetzacoatl said: »
You would probably get tons of skill-ups with Resolution anyway, so I'd go for it regardless of weapon
Once you get past 357 skill that is...


Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
Etc.
Now incorporate accuracy, and watch it drop to equal or less than Torcleaver with poor scaling on HNM/VW and other hard targets just like Guillotine used to.

You're comparing the absolute maximum of both weaponskills before considering accuracy needs at all. Didn't we just have a few posts on differences in gearing for Multihits?

Meanwhile you can stack Attack and about 90-100 VIT on Torcleaver without even batting an eye at Accuracy. If you ignored accuracy you can only really find about +75 INT. VIT gear is damned prolific now and hello attack food.

Yeah okay, it'd be a little broken in DRK terms, but that's the point. Then compare it to Ukko's Fury with average JA stacking and say 'wow, that's kinda... normal'.

>>Complaining about a hypothetical scythe WS being 50% stronger than Torcleaver
>Resolution is 50% stronger than any Scythe WS
 Lakshmi.Byrth
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-12-02 04:13:50  
Again, crack. You almost always WS in more Accuracy than you TP in, and I would hope that you adjust your setup (/food) so you TP in capped Accuracy against anything you're fighting.

(X*.95)/(Y*.95) = X/Y

Do you really thing the few Attack you might pick up going from a lolINT build to an lolVIT build is going to make a 60% difference?

8 fTP and 100% stat mod on a 2H WS is straight up dumb.
 Diabolos.Raelia
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By Diabolos.Raelia 2011-12-02 04:59:42  
Shh! Don't tell SE and maybe DRK will be worth two sh*ts again.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-12-02 09:01:02  
volkom said: »
would onyx sollerets be any good with resolution?
Not really, the 100% STR mod heavily favors stacking STR. Augmented Heca +1 > Bale +2 > Onyx.
By volkom 2011-12-02 15:56:04  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: »
volkom said: »
would onyx sollerets be any good with resolution?
Not really, the 100% STR mod heavily favors stacking STR. Augmented Heca +1 > Bale +2 > Onyx.
kk, i was thinking maybe onyx might pull out ahead if there was a way to augment it with str :S
 Ragnarok.Returner
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By Ragnarok.Returner 2011-12-02 17:50:40  
should really be Dilaram > Augmented Heca +1 > Bale +2.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-12-02 18:10:33  
Forgot about those, yeah they'd be best unless cRatio capped.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-12-05 14:47:12  
Current assumption is a 40% attack penalty on Resolution. Can't say it's 100% solid yet, but it looks sorta likely.
 Ragnarok.Returner
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By Ragnarok.Returner 2011-12-05 20:22:39  
Sounds about right from the number that I have been seeing.
 Fenrir.Ruebyy
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By Fenrir.Ruebyy 2011-12-06 09:18:40  
Lakshmi.Byrth said: »
Again, crack. You almost always WS in more Accuracy than you TP in, and I would hope that you adjust your setup (/food) so you TP in capped Accuracy against anything you're fighting.

(X*.95)/(Y*.95) = X/Y

Do you really thing the few Attack you might pick up going from a lolINT build to an lolVIT build is going to make a 60% difference?

8 fTP and 100% stat mod on a 2H WS is straight up dumb.
Explain to me how it would be 8fTP when each hit for res is .75fTP if you would be so kind sir.
 Bahamut.Raenryong
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By Bahamut.Raenryong 2011-12-06 09:37:33  
His statement was made before said discovery.
 Pandemonium.Anookulchandra
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By Pandemonium.Anookulchandra 2011-12-06 20:02:41  
I wonder if they gimped the GS weaponskill due to war. And figured drk can make up that (what was it -40% or some attack penalty?) with soul eater as a sc closer. Idk just bored and trying to start some convo....

*yes Ik war has ukon and BROvura just like I said just for convo*
 Quetzalcoatl.Generic
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By Quetzalcoatl.Generic 2011-12-21 03:56:38  

Highest was 3.9k but didn't get a screenshot at the time.


Current set minus Pyrosoul and Fracas. Never on AH :/
 Ragnarok.Returner
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By Ragnarok.Returner 2011-12-21 12:43:21  
I am not sure how evasive Qilin is, and I know for sure that the accuracy from Ragnarok helped, but did you notice any accuracy issue on the WS?

I suspect that since ftp of first hit is carried over, the 100 accuracy bonus might be too. Since your set didn't incorporate much accuracy, you might be able to tell us what you observed.

Thanks.
 Quetzalcoatl.Generic
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By Quetzalcoatl.Generic 2011-12-21 21:16:39  
Ragnarok.Returner said: »
I am not sure how evasive Qilin is, and I know for sure that the accuracy from Ragnarok helped, but did you notice any accuracy issue on the WS?

I suspect that since ftp of first hit is carried over, the 100 accuracy bonus might be too. Since your set didn't incorporate much accuracy, you might be able to tell us what you observed.

Thanks.
Here's a parse of a Zerged Qilin (We seriously zerged it without regard for lights) WAR's were using MS etc
I haven't rly had any Acc issue's. My Ragnarok is only 85 and I also use augmented Heca mitts+1 with STR+4 augmented and atm I use Fire bomblet till I can get a Fracas Grenade. I'm rly satisfied with DRK and this WS lol
 Bahamut.Vaashe
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By Bahamut.Vaashe 2011-12-21 22:12:53  
The parse above just confuses me...
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 Asura.Kese
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By Asura.Kese 2011-12-21 22:26:01  
all i see is a 837 scourge! :o
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 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2011-12-21 22:42:23  
Code
 
[b]Melee Damage[/b]
[u][b]Player            Melee Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg[/u][/b]
      Generic               17064          0     17064   39.05 %       53/4   92.98 %   92.98 %   118/622   242.26   242.26


All he needed. Qilin also apparently has lowish eva.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2011-12-21 22:46:01  
New weaponskills show up as job abilities on the parse. Look lower.
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 Bahamut.Serj
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By Bahamut.Serj 2011-12-21 22:50:25  
This is where skimming posts isn't a good thing.

Code
[b]Ability Damage[/b]
[u][b]Player                  Abil. Dmg  Abs'd.Dmg   Net Dmg    Abil. %  Hit/Miss    A.Acc %    A.Low/Hi    A.Avg[/u][/b]
     Generic                     25760          0     25760    58.95 %       9/0   100.00 %   1975/3990  2862.22
      - Resolution               25760          0     25760   100.00 %       9/0   100.00 %   1975/3990  2862.22


There
 Leviathan.Quetzacoatl
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By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2011-12-22 03:35:10  
Nice to see Resolution doing very well outside abyssea. What Atma builds would be best for Caladbolgs and non-empy for it?

is RR/Apoc/A&O still the clear winner or are we able to add in a STR atma this time around?

edit: sounds like RR/Apoc/A&O or RR/Apoc/VV are viable for this
 Ragnarok.Lugat
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By Ragnarok.Lugat 2011-12-22 07:48:56  
the TP bonus GS from TOTM is best for this new WS correct?
 Ragnarok.Returner
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By Ragnarok.Returner 2011-12-22 09:22:57  
It is for pure WS damage probably, but for overall DD, it is not the best option.

I think most ppl got the idea that TP bonus weapon is now good because they hear from their SAM friends.

Note that if you are using gorget/belt/moonshade, this will likely only boost your WS by about 14%, as you go from 4.75 ftp to 5.4 http://ftp. You are almost better off just get the WS damage +10% one as it has +7 base damage, which is about an additional 3% to your WS damage and 6% to your DoT damage.

For SAM's new WS, it is close to a 34% increase cuz it jumps from 2.375 ftp to 3.1875 http://ftp.

For SAM, it is justified due to their WS frequency and how their WS jump from 100% tp to 200% tp, but for DRK, it is not really worth it.
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