Aegis Vs. Ochain

10,000 x .125 = 1250
We are capable taking much more magic damage with Aegis obv,
They could at least raise Magic damage from HNM to a 3,000 base or destroy Ochain with 4,000+ magix

What does a shield other then aegis have to do with reducing magic damage? every job can get MDT + Shell V not every job breaks the cap for an additional 37.5 MDT. If you think that a non-aegis pld is going to be just as easy to cure then get rid of the Pld all together because any DD can do the same thing.

So if you actually need a pld, then that pld should have aegis, Ochain was cool in abyseaa it was fun to see it in action but it never was a useful shield

I wouldn't call 10,000 damage typical.

And you're also venturing into the land of things that would become impossible without a relic weapon, which isn't part of their plan as far as I know.

It was just an example, lol. 3,000 damage is reasonable.

Back anything you just said up with something reasonable, then I'll bother to respond to it.

The only thing special PLD has is exceeding the MDT cap really. You could justify taking minimum damage with Ochain, but for anything blinkable there is Utsusemi.

I've sat here for several minutes staring at the screen because I genuinely didn't know how to respond to that.

How can people who fawn over Aegis, which offers a relatively small increase in safety against magic damage, and then claim that the difference between a DD/NIN and an Ochain PLD is minimal enough to ignore entirely?

Going from 0% MDT to 50% MDT/xMDB is a dramatic change compared to going from 50% MDT/xMDB to 87.5% MDT/xMDB. You're taking something that would have done 2,000 damage naked, 500-600 damage with <insert shield here>, and going to 100-200 damage. That's worthy of a job change, but being physically impenetrable isn't?

Your logic follows no pattern whatsoever.

Also something about having a job that is always engaged possessing most sword procs, Shield Bash, a handful of WHM procs, and respectable damage output

Aegis is a complete shield. Ochain its just block...

Sure had a big turn around from the last thread about VW and PLD =p

Really? Looks identical to me.

You've got me, your random people popping in to say one shield or the other and leave, and then you've got people who argue with me while not taking the time to understand what I'm talking about.

I meant the MNK vs PLD thing lol

I don't think anyone ever compared MNK to Ochain or Aegis in a positive light.

Didn't mention Aegis/Ochain in this. The last thread you made it seem like PLD is not as good as a MNK due to a couple hundred HP.

It was implied. They said that an Ochain PLD may as well be on another job, and I offered reasons why that's a silly assertion. I mentioned physical impenetrability in a prior post.

Ochain is a complete shield.Aegis,its just MDT

(not that i believe that,its just an obvios counter arguement)

***is sitational,get over it.and yes,i have an ochain and can admit they're sitational

Ninja edit: and remember,we can still hit 50% MDT,which was enough for aegis owners to justify a 250mil aegis for all those years pre-MDT cap lift,so its good enogh now

Aegis and Ochain Counter each other this debate will never be concluded the better shield is in the better player. You can suck and have ochain and ur still going to die and you can suck and have aegis and ur still going to die. your healers can also suck and have aegis or ochain in most cases ur goina die if you cant keep up.

Aegis Ochain / Ying Yang

I have aegis and ochain and I can tell you that inside abyssea with 3000+HP yea sure use ochain since you can live easily with a 1500 damage nuke.

If you plan to do voidwatch, ochain still helps but you better have a lot of support jobs because when your whm runs out of MP curing you with ochain on, you're entire alliance is gonna wipe.

Both shields are entirely situational and anyone who considers themselves a career pld will get both.

Unless your group completley sucks and cant proc ***, this should never happen, WHM has near unlimited MP inside of Voidwatch because of meds from procs.

But even before meds, just like inside abyssea with Gear/Refresh/Ballads WHM can easily rock a 20 tic fresh and not to mention AF3 legs giving you MP back from cures.

Just saying unless your a really bad group theres no way in hell your whm should be running out of mp x:

tbh, Aegis is not situational, with Aegis i dont have any problem on tank even the MNK NM's, Aegis have MDT, Aegis have good block rate and reprisal/palisade will help to add more % block, and trust me is very hight. Also when you block you have -75% PDT so lol why i should waste my time to get an ochain? i wont use Ochain for sure since with Aegis i can tank ALL nm without problems and im not say that just to justify the 250m i spent, just get Aegis and try you wont say again, just situation shield.

I think people are using the word situational a bit too often nowadays. Can't we all just get along and such?

Yes please! but hate when people say : Np Aegis MDT macro.. lol.

yea swaping aegis in is pointless just best to full time it when i finish my ochain it prob wont get much use and this whole debate is point less they each have there uses and if u dont have either u should make one for your pld but dont be cheap make the all around shield Aegis may take u longer but you will see what all the aegis plds are talking about.

Every time somebody dramatically overextends the benefit of having an Aegis, you take several steps backward.

Serious PLD should have both, but going from 50MDT/25-50MDB to 87.5MDT/25-50MDB is not a big deal to most healers, and pretending that seeing double-digit magic damage is that much more than a novelty is not a good way to get your point across.

People seem to be grossly underestimating how often mobs, ya know, melee as well.

inb4 that's what /nin is for

Thats what.... damn it!