Odin.Senaki said: »
(Alliance required)!
Is FFXI Dying?
Is FFXI Dying?
I'll give you it for tree-fiddy! OMG did I say TREE, I'm so sorry! U need to make new one. oh nvm it's full of boomies and bears now.
BlackmoreKnight said: »
Additionally, crafted gear for early raiding or latecomer catchup. The prestige in XIV doesn't come from doing something 200 times until you get the respective currencies or get lucky with RNG for a boost in player power, the prestige comes from figuring out the content and doing it first in as minimal gear as they tune for it to be doable in. Or from having a shiny weapon that the hardest prestige content drops, or speedrunning the content and doing the highest DPS to post on a third party logging website. The equivalent to Master Trial weapons over in XIV are very coveted and the draw to doing that content is both the experience of doing the content itself for the sake of it as well as having a shiny weapon to show off.
It's a very different game model that puts the content at the forefront and not the job or equipment. As sort of an exaggerated example, if you don't have an Aegis in XI, there's just going to be some content that you can't expect to do regardless of how good you are at PLD or know the content in question. Because in XI's model, having that Aegis in the first place is considered part of being "good at PLD".
There's benefits to both approaches and it's largely a subjective matter of taste. I will agree that it's cheaper to throw some new stats and math and a singular gimmick on an otherwise mostly reused NM and put it in a box instead of design a wholly new 10-20 minute encounter with a new mechanic happening every 30-60s when you need to design more fights. XIV's model demands bespoke content and encounters while XI can just reuse the Vagary NMs like 5 times with a slightly different twist each time and it's content, especially if you ask people to do it 200 times.
It's a very different game model that puts the content at the forefront and not the job or equipment. As sort of an exaggerated example, if you don't have an Aegis in XI, there's just going to be some content that you can't expect to do regardless of how good you are at PLD or know the content in question. Because in XI's model, having that Aegis in the first place is considered part of being "good at PLD".
There's benefits to both approaches and it's largely a subjective matter of taste. I will agree that it's cheaper to throw some new stats and math and a singular gimmick on an otherwise mostly reused NM and put it in a box instead of design a wholly new 10-20 minute encounter with a new mechanic happening every 30-60s when you need to design more fights. XIV's model demands bespoke content and encounters while XI can just reuse the Vagary NMs like 5 times with a slightly different twist each time and it's content, especially if you ask people to do it 200 times.
Ehh, in XIV there really isn't a way to gain prestige from raw gameplay imo. Even if you go do all of the ultimates or have all of the trophies or get all of the achievements, a wide swathe of the XIV playerbase just calls you a sweaty try hard no lifer. Another part of it asks if you can do those ultimates as any job or role. Another asks if you're orange/gold parsing them. I'd say the only real way one earns prestige for XIV is by becoming a widely known social persona. Like almost everyone knows who the guide makers are, who the glamor designers are, who the challenge runners are etc. ONLY if their youtube videos or twitch streams get them noticed.
Like there are at least half a dozen notable personalities that are known all over the place for things that have no relation to the gameplay or how good they are at.
TL;DR unlike XI's players, the interests, pursuits, and values of XIV players are so diverse and different from XI's that gameplay and its reward structure matter very little to the majority of folks playing it. And that's by the nature of its majority complaining that giving better players gameplay gated gear that is better than what casuals can acquire would be unfair.
You see them shout about it loudest when raiders get the dyeable version of a really cool armor set.
Their willingness to not upset casuals has actually caused some of their most recent content in the Variant/Criterion dungeons to be unappealing, because they give so few things that people care about that they may as well be fruitless endeavors once you've done them for their story.
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Asura.Vyre said: »
Their willingness to not upset casuals has actually caused some of their most recent content in the Variant/Criterion dungeons to be unappealing, because they give so few things that people care about that they may as well be fruitless endeavors once you've done them for their story.
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XI is from an era where the psychology used upon you was to keep you subbed as long as possible (so they turned the most serious hardcore players into celebrities), in XIV and Wow they just take it for granted you'll stay subbed and concentrate on cash shop psychology.
From a business standpoint for a public company, XI does everything wrong and XIV is an Olympic gold medal winner. In terms of monetization and player psychology anyway.
XI players back in the day, used to stand around town in busy areas to show off their gear. I still remember the first person I saw in full sky gear in upper jeuno and this was 20 years ago.
On XIV the players who buy the newest cash shop stuff act the same exact way, and buying the new cosmetics the fastest (to the point they almost crash the server with their impatience) is their prime concern.
The developers successfully reworked the prestige players sought by working for the hardest to get gear and getting it first, into buying the newest outfits the fastest. They actively try to stomp out "sweaty" behavior, because it's bad for business. Even this term is astroturfed from the companies (mainly blizz).
Companies don't want their players to value in-game achievements, they want them to value ones that cost $.
From a business standpoint for a public company, XI does everything wrong and XIV is an Olympic gold medal winner. In terms of monetization and player psychology anyway.
XI players back in the day, used to stand around town in busy areas to show off their gear. I still remember the first person I saw in full sky gear in upper jeuno and this was 20 years ago.
On XIV the players who buy the newest cash shop stuff act the same exact way, and buying the new cosmetics the fastest (to the point they almost crash the server with their impatience) is their prime concern.
The developers successfully reworked the prestige players sought by working for the hardest to get gear and getting it first, into buying the newest outfits the fastest. They actively try to stomp out "sweaty" behavior, because it's bad for business. Even this term is astroturfed from the companies (mainly blizz).
Companies don't want their players to value in-game achievements, they want them to value ones that cost $.
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RadialArcana said: »
XI is from an era where the psychology used upon you was to keep you subbed as long as possible (so they turned the most serious hardcore players into celebrities), in XIV and Wow they just take it for granted you'll stay subbed and concentrate on cash shop psychology.
From a business standpoint for a public company, XI does everything wrong and XIV is an Olympic gold medal winner. In terms of monetization and player psychology anyway.
XI players back in the day, used to stand around town in busy areas to show off their gear. I still remember the first person I saw in full sky gear in upper jeuno and this was 20 years ago.
On XIV the players who buy the newest cash shop stuff act the same exact way, and buying the new cosmetics the fastest (to the point they almost crash the server with their impatience) is their prime concern.
The developers successfully reworked the prestige players sought by working for the hardest to get gear and getting it first, into buying the newest outfits the fastest. They actively try to stomp out "sweaty" behavior, because it's bad for business. Even this term is astroturfed from the companies (mainly blizz).
Companies don't want their players to value in-game achievements, they want them to value ones that cost $.
From a business standpoint for a public company, XI does everything wrong and XIV is an Olympic gold medal winner. In terms of monetization and player psychology anyway.
XI players back in the day, used to stand around town in busy areas to show off their gear. I still remember the first person I saw in full sky gear in upper jeuno and this was 20 years ago.
On XIV the players who buy the newest cash shop stuff act the same exact way, and buying the new cosmetics the fastest (to the point they almost crash the server with their impatience) is their prime concern.
The developers successfully reworked the prestige players sought by working for the hardest to get gear and getting it first, into buying the newest outfits the fastest. They actively try to stomp out "sweaty" behavior, because it's bad for business. Even this term is astroturfed from the companies (mainly blizz).
Companies don't want their players to value in-game achievements, they want them to value ones that cost $.
Reading this made me very nostalgic and extremely sad at the same time. I would love to see someone at SE get a hold of this game that actually played and loved it. I think she still have so much life left if anyone would care for the old girl.
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zeta said: »
I think she still have so much life left if anyone would care for the old girl.
Every run is a lesson to be learned. Always thinking about ways to squeeze even 1% more out of the same event next time.
FFXI every year since its death was imminent back in 2008:
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I think private servers are killing retail tremendously
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At +30 euros / month for fillers and nothing else ....
S.E should unplug the servers, Those roadmaps full of nothing....
1 year away now, can't wait to go back for those News contents, maps, expensions, Jobs etc etc .....
Ho wait ....... i was dreaming ^^;
( having a blast on my GW2, and black desert ! )
Square Enix.... a Dying Compagny, runs by Old Zombies in a suit.
S.E should unplug the servers, Those roadmaps full of nothing....
1 year away now, can't wait to go back for those News contents, maps, expensions, Jobs etc etc .....
Ho wait ....... i was dreaming ^^;
( having a blast on my GW2, and black desert ! )
Square Enix.... a Dying Compagny, runs by Old Zombies in a suit.
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Necro Bump Detected!
[169 days between previous and next post]
Here are my biggest complaints:
Odessy-Sheol Gaol:
Sortie-Death of PUGs:
Extreme lack of new content:
Odessy-Sheol Gaol:
I have no intrest in many of the bosses, I only need the boss clear because I need Bumba X
You are forced to play jobs that you don't want to play, Timesink feature?
Pay-to-win; Earn real money, buy gil, pay RMT for RP/Clear. You can certianly do the fights yourself but man does buying your way to power make things much speedier
Sortie-Death of PUGs:
Many times have I seen newer players get flamed for not knowing mechanics. It is so bad it has gotten to the point were you get added to every player ban list until you learn the roll or you die from ban list death
Even PUG leaders are critized by elitist who are using a inferior farming strategy
Extreme lack of new content:
People who have reached the end of the line in content
It's hard justifying paying X amount of money per month for a game that isn't actively developing and the game isn't going to develop ever. Why? Because no game developer is really willing to learn a very obsolete game language/engine that does not transition into any future projects, it's basically waste of time and no employer is going to pay you extra because you learned a dead end language.
Oppurtunity Cost, why play this mediocre game with no new content vs this other game with constant updates, a actually non-bot, non-SE manipulated, population base, and is actually fun
Here are my biggest complaints:
Odessy-Sheol Gaol:
Sortie-Death of PUGs:
Extreme lack of new content:
Odessy-Sheol Gaol:
I have no intrest in many of the bosses, I only need the boss clear because I need Bumba X
You are forced to play jobs that you don't want to play, Timesink feature?
Pay-to-win; Earn real money, buy gil, pay RMT for RP/Clear. You can certianly do the fights yourself but man does buying your way to power make things much speedier
Sortie-Death of PUGs:
Many times have I seen newer players get flamed for not knowing mechanics. It is so bad it has gotten to the point were you get added to every player ban list until you learn the roll or you die from ban list death
Even PUG leaders are critized by elitist who are using a inferior farming strategy
Extreme lack of new content:
People who have reached the end of the line in content
It's hard justifying paying X amount of money per month for a game that isn't actively developing and the game isn't going to develop ever. Why? Because no game developer is really willing to learn a very obsolete game language/engine that does not transition into any future projects, it's basically waste of time and no employer is going to pay you extra because you learned a dead end language.
Oppurtunity Cost, why play this mediocre game with no new content vs this other game with constant updates, a actually non-bot, non-SE manipulated, population base, and is actually fun
Is FFXI dying? Technically no, because it is not a living thing. One must have a soul to be able to die. It only inherits life from the community, and when the players are no longer around, it will go back to being an imaginary world of pixels.
Only 320 people on Bismarck at 2AM PT on a Friday. I think that is dead.
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Move to Asura if you want people around you so much, the entire point of those smaller servers is the lower population.
Those servers are as they are because they decided for it to be that way, specifically for JP players.
Those servers are as they are because they decided for it to be that way, specifically for JP players.
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Short answer: yes.
Long answer: not worth giving a long answer for a dying game.
Long answer: not worth giving a long answer for a dying game.
Musical answer:
YouTube Video Placeholder
Bahamut.Ragnell said: »
Tarutaru sucks
They always did
Asura.Ruinga said: »
Pay-to-win; Earn real money, buy gil, pay RMT for RP/Clear. You can certianly do the fights yourself but man does buying your way to power make things much speedier
Asura.Ruinga said: »
Extreme lack of new content:
People who have reached the end of the line in content
People who have reached the end of the line in content
I mean...you paid to skip the content, it's a little on the nose to say "there's no content in this game", IMO.
I bring this up constantly but apparently it falls on deaf ears.
I've been playing basically every night for the past several years and I still have stuff to do because Gaol is incredibly difficult (and so is organizing 6 adults to do it). It turns out when you don't pay people to do the content for you, there's something to do (that content)!
Asura.Ruinga said: »
You are forced to play jobs that you don't want to play, Timesink feature?
It's not a time sink from SE's perspective, I don't think. It's a design feature to get players thinking outside the box, using more niche jobs, and attempting unique strategies. If there were no job/subjob restrictions on Gaol, every fight would be some combination of BRD COR GEO WHM DD DD or BRD COR GEO PLD DD DD, or near enough to that. I personally think it's way more interesting to have multi-KI strats involving jobs that aren't commonly used.
If you just want to play a single job (or role) then FFXI is not a great game for you. Technically you CAN do it, but the game really isn't designed for it. Lots of fights require/encourage different job combinations than other fights, which means if you're a *main* of a specific job, sometimes you just miss out on content. This is especially true if the group you're trying to party up with already has another *main* of the same job/role. Flexibility is key in this game.
And yes, FFXI is absolutely dying, or dead depending on your threshold for those definitions. If anyone is interested in resurrecting it, I'd suggest taking a leadership role in forming linkshells, discords, groups, and gearing/teaching newer players because veterans are quitting and being banned by the droves, IMO.
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Met plenty of people that had “clear” but yet are terrible players. Skipping the content (merc) prevents you from actually learning the game, learning other jobs, make niche set, understanding that this job’s limit actually wasn’t, might actually help you understand limitations of other jobs. The real reward of odyssey isn’t R25-30 (yes those gear rocks) but what you learn from it while going thru it. Went thru most V25 with my group of friends a long time ago, no +8 roll, no burgtang, no empy gear, no many things, few rema if any, we managed, make alternate strat, discover new way of doing stuff, and that’s the reward, no one can take that away from you.
Basic ody/sortie +2 gear is easily accessible and incredibly powerful for the little effort put into it.
Leaders that /shout need a fill up usually for a night or few. They have to somehow choose, and more often than not it doesn’t work out, but if you actually did played different jobs, different content, didn’t put those invisible fence around your mind, they will accept you, help you be up to speed to their ways in no time.
It’s worth playing this dying game while it’s still alive, you’ll regret it later
Basic ody/sortie +2 gear is easily accessible and incredibly powerful for the little effort put into it.
Leaders that /shout need a fill up usually for a night or few. They have to somehow choose, and more often than not it doesn’t work out, but if you actually did played different jobs, different content, didn’t put those invisible fence around your mind, they will accept you, help you be up to speed to their ways in no time.
It’s worth playing this dying game while it’s still alive, you’ll regret it later
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Ah, regret. The equalizer.
You regret continuing to sail the sinking ship or you regret not riding till the wheels fell off.
It comes for you either way. Too much time on it, and also not enough time with it, at the same time.
You regret continuing to sail the sinking ship or you regret not riding till the wheels fell off.
It comes for you either way. Too much time on it, and also not enough time with it, at the same time.
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Think some get tired of having a 100-1000 dollar a month gaming habit.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
It's not a time sink from SE's perspective, I don't think. It's a design feature to get players thinking outside the box, using more niche jobs, and attempting unique strategies. If there were no job/subjob restrictions on Gaol, every fight would be some combination of BRD COR GEO WHM DD DD or BRD COR GEO PLD DD DD, or near enough to that.
*Cracks Knuckles* I hope yall ready for a rant
Shichishito said: »
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
It's not a time sink from SE's perspective, I don't think. It's a design feature to get players thinking outside the box, using more niche jobs, and attempting unique strategies. If there were no job/subjob restrictions on Gaol, every fight would be some combination of BRD COR GEO WHM DD DD or BRD COR GEO PLD DD DD, or near enough to that.
Cap
Salvage required MNK on release, other DD jobs were left on the sidelines
VW required varied jobs
Those melee setups you listed were gonna struggle with Vagary
You werent doing ROTZ HNM with melee only
Geo wasnt even around for “two decades”
Finally: you dont need eight wardrobes to have three jobs with S-tier equipment.
You dont need ANY wardrobes to pull that off.
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Befor GEO it was a different support like RDM, the concept was the same - max supports and as little tanks, heals and DDs as you could get away with.
Afaik there never was a real effort to balance jobs to a point where they'd be in equal demand for the events of that era. Even VW was just shoehorned diversity due to the proc mechanic as some jobs could show up half naked as long as they could land the procs, although imho it was still a far better approach than what gaol does.
Maybe not impossible, just very inconvenient, just like it's not impossible to get max level and best equipment in some free2play games... just very inconvenient.
Are we really going to pretend the reason for gaols mechanics is any other than selling more wardrobes?
Afaik there never was a real effort to balance jobs to a point where they'd be in equal demand for the events of that era. Even VW was just shoehorned diversity due to the proc mechanic as some jobs could show up half naked as long as they could land the procs, although imho it was still a far better approach than what gaol does.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Finally: you dont need eight wardrobes to have three jobs with S-tier equipment.
You dont need ANY wardrobes to pull that off.
You dont need ANY wardrobes to pull that off.
Are we really going to pretend the reason for gaols mechanics is any other than selling more wardrobes?
Shichishito said: »
Maybe not impossible, just very inconvenient
Between Satchel, Sack, Case, Wardrobe 1 and 2, you have FOUR HUNDRED inventory slots to work with, thats not including the 80 from inventory. This is equipment that is available to swapped on the fly, even though you have to be near a moogle to change job.
If your 3 jobs all need over 133 pieces of unique equipment specific to that job, you're min-maxing to the point where the effort exceeds the reward. The hit rate cap will impact your DPS more than whatever you're trying to min-max.
inb4:
Quote:
I dont want to run gs org, I want to throw all my equipment in 8 wardrobes so I can job change on the fly without doing anything
Thats a you problem. If typing in "gs org" is an inconvenience, then you're *** hopeless.
Min-maxing your gearswap is an infinitely bigger inconvenience than typing in "gs org". Plugging in your new shiny piece of equipment in the DPS calculator and adjusting all your sets to account for every situation so you can properly min-max is an infinitely bigger inconvenience than typing "gs org"
Most of the remaining FFXI players strive to have the best gear for all 22 jobs. That is FFXI, you gear a job make a REMA or 3 for it then rinse repeat. Now its Primes what else is there to do but chain make Primes at least to Stage 3-4. Ill even edit it and add FF14 is the same thing as well as everyone I knew that played leveled every job and craft to cap w/e it was at the time through botting or just playing a lot.
For that argument to hold up you'd have to ignore mog slips, collectables, lockstyles, upgrade items from current and legacy content, seals, crafting equipment, REMAs, saved up REMA materials and meds.
Weekly sparks and accolades conversion also becomes pure bliss with inventory filled to the brim.
Look, if the current situation wasn't inconvenient SE wouldn't offer extra wardrobes for cash.
You're trying to make it sound like everyone rightfully should be inconvenienced for using a core feature of a game they already pay a monthly fee for.
Organizer isn't a fix all solution either if you're operating with tight space. It can have difficulties with augmented equipment and it frequently downright quits so the individual has to hand sort the last third of their inventory.
Also I would be careful propagating the use of 3rd party tools that actively cut into SEs profits.
Weekly sparks and accolades conversion also becomes pure bliss with inventory filled to the brim.
Look, if the current situation wasn't inconvenient SE wouldn't offer extra wardrobes for cash.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
so I can job change on the fly without doing anything
Organizer isn't a fix all solution either if you're operating with tight space. It can have difficulties with augmented equipment and it frequently downright quits so the individual has to hand sort the last third of their inventory.
Also I would be careful propagating the use of 3rd party tools that actively cut into SEs profits.
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