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Abortion
Leviathan.Niniann
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2596
By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-08 01:04:25
Caitsith.Jessie said: I'm in an odd situation. See, I'm pro-choice just because I understand the many reasons a woman could need to have an abortion. But at the same time I'm pro-life just because I've seen live footage (video recorded ultrasound) of what a fetal abortion looks like... and it's really not pretty.
To describe in words would probably get me permanently banned from the entire internet. I've explained it to a friend once, and when I only got about halfway through describing it he told me to stop.
Do you know what they do to the animals we eat? Same ***.
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By Aldiel 2011-07-08 01:10:27
If it's not the right time to have a child then it is not the right time to have sex. It simply is too irresponsible from an STD point of view and from a clearly humanitarian point of view to have sex without protection. All of this "I can't help it" *** is just another excuse to do the wrong thing and not take responsibility for our actions and/or be lazy. It's immature to take life for granted like that. We are not animals, we have to have a societal conscience and those that oppose abortion should focus on social responsibility instead of religiosity if they want to end this frivolous waste of time, money, human resources etc, my tax dollars should NOT be used to ease economic burden on immature and irresponsible ppl that KNOW that the biological function of coitus is reproduction, nobody is that stupid. It is not lack of education, it's lack of giving a ***(or maybe giving to many without a condom). Stop wasting my money.
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サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33979
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-07-08 01:19:24
Maybe you should read up on condoms and the pill. They're not 100%, condoms can be much less than 90% if you don't keep them in a good spot. Also need to understand that not everyone views a fetus the same way and it's a person's right to do what they want with their body so if they want to have an abortion then they should be able to. The fetus isn't a person, it has no will, no emotions and no intelligence at that stage either.
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サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-08 01:20:59
Aldiel said: We are not animals...
But that's just it, we ARE animals. Don't get me wrong, I am pro-choice, as I feel there are many situations in which actually having the child can be bad for both the child and the parent(s). But we really do give in to baser instincts more often than we'd like to admit. People do have sexual relations just for pleasure. A lot of us do, in fact. And there is nothing wrong with that at all. Sex shouldn't just be "for making babies only!". Its a wonderful part of human life, and it should be enjoyed responsibly. Not only when a woman is ovulating, or only if she wants a child, or if the man wants a child.
That's like denying yourself something you thoroughly enjoy, for no good reason. Sex can be enjoyed responsibly without consequence, if both parties are smart about it...
By Aldiel 2011-07-08 01:23:18
Every time I see ppl arguing about abortion all I hear is "waaaa waaaa waaa /huff I wanna stick penises in my vagina and not care about the consequences" /sigh will American women ever grow up... And the men, hell no I'm not leaving them out... Begging for sex, doing anything to get sex, pussy whipped pussies. Children in grown ppls bodies, just because there's hair on it, it doesn't make you mature.
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サーバ: Bismarck
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Posts: 33979
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-07-08 01:25:10
Blame schools and parents for not teaching kids well enough. If you did you'd probably have less teen pregnancies.
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-08 01:25:49
Aldiel said: Every time I see ppl arguing about abortion all I hear is "waaaa waaaa waaa /huff I wanna stick penises in my vagina and not care about the consequences" /sigh will American women ever grow up... And the men, hell no I'm not leaving them out... Begging for sex, doing anything to get sex, pussy whipped pussies. Children in grown ppls bodies, just because there's hair on it, it doesn't make you mature.
Who exactly are you mad at? You ok? You seem to be very angry at a large portion of the populous.
And as the funny comedian Ralphie May once said, "Of course I'm whipped... You can either be whipped or hand-whipped, if you catch my drift..." lol
By Aldiel 2011-07-08 01:30:24
Calling yourself an animal is just another excuse to make poor decisions, grow up. And if all these abortions are being caused by prophylactic failures then they are far from 90% effective. And they are scientifically proven to be 90-99% effective so don't throw some *** numbers into your argument to make it look smarter plus it's a logical fallacy. The facts are, people are, as someone earlier put it "skin on skin *** without even trying to pull out". If it feels good do it, does not pass as reasonable to me. If you don't want a baby take precautions and stop wasting my money.
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Leviathan.Niniann
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2596
By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-08 01:32:15
Bismarck.Dracondria said: Blame schools and parents for not teaching kids well enough. If you did you'd probably have less teen pregnancies.
I agree. A lot of it is lack of education. :/
By Aldiel 2011-07-08 01:34:30
I'm angry that my tax dollars which are substantial to me, are going to pay for sex-in-the-city, pretty pretty princess debutant *** to run down to planned parenthood and their fix for their Friday night fling. Ppl can do whatever they want as long as I'm not involved. I will not be a party to their irresponsible and immature sexual behavior and attitudes.
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サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33979
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-07-08 01:34:56
Aldiel said: Calling yourself an animal is just another excuse to make poor decisions, grow up. And if all these abortions are being caused by prophylactic failures then they are far from 90% effective. And they are scientifically proven to be 90-99% effective so don't throw some *** numbers into your argument to make it look smarter plus it's a logical fallacy. The facts are, people are, as someone earlier put it "skin on skin *** without even trying to pull out". If it feels good do it, does not pass as reasonable to me. If you don't want a baby take precautions and stop wasting my money.
If you keep condoms in your pocket or your wallet etc they can tear quite easily. It's not a good place to put them. Let's not forget that they can dry out a bit too and rip from that.
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33979
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-07-08 01:36:46
You might wanna invest in some anger management too
Carbuncle.Asymptotic
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2659
By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-07-08 01:36:55
Aldiel said: I'm angry that my tax dollars which are substantial to me, are going to pay for sex-in-the-city, pretty pretty princess debutant *** to run down to planned parenthood and their fix for their Friday night fling. Ppl can do whatever they want as long as I'm not involved. I will not be a party to their irresponsible and immature sexual behavior and attitudes.
Expatriate.
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-08 01:37:27
Actually, I don't just sleep with anything that moves... I am fairly cautious about what I do, and consequences my actions may have... But simply put, we are still animals... Humans are just the smartest animal out there (to my knowledge anyways). When you really break down our wants/needs, they are basically no different than most mammals. Saying we are animals is not just "an excuse". Its actual fact, is all I was getting at. We do give in to baser urges and instincts at times.
By Aldiel 2011-07-08 01:39:45
Lack of education???? Are you serious?? You stick a *** in a vagina and you get a baby, you cannot tell me that schools are the problem..... You expect them to teach them to drink water, teach them to breath and blink too? This stuff is not complicated. Are you saying that schools need to teach children self control or that kids don't know at an early age that sex=babies? This is just getting ridiculous with the excuses.
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サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33979
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-07-08 01:41:42
A lot of people still think there are safe days and that pulling out is a good option so yes, there needs to be better education.
Leviathan.Niniann
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2596
By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-08 01:43:30
Aldiel said: Lack of education???? Are you serious?? You stick a *** in a vagina and you get a baby, you cannot tell me that schools are the problem..... You expect them to teach them to drink water, teach them to breath and blink too? This stuff is not complicated. Are you saying that schools need to teach children self control or that kids don't know at an early age that sex=babies? This is just getting ridiculous with the excuses.
Some parents don't allow their kids to go to sex ed, and then proceed to tell them jack ***? So no, some kids don't know.
And condoms do break, etc etc. Birth control is mostly effective, but Vitamin C (iirc) and some antibiotics reduce the effectiveness of birth control. So if a girl is sick, and having sex and doesn't know this, there's a good chance she'll get pregnant. Wanna fight about it?
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By Aldiel 2011-07-08 01:44:49
Anger management eh, ad homonem and/or passive aggressive stab at my credibility due to lack of strength in your own argument most likely, BUY. NEW. ONES. EVERY. TIME. YOU. ***. HOLE. that clear enough? Don't you dare attack me with supposition. And if you don't have a good argument, then don't attack the person.
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 33979
By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-07-08 01:45:50
Anger management because you can't go one post without cussing and being hostile lol
Leviathan.Niniann
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2596
By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-08 01:47:28
Bismarck.Dracondria said: Anger management because you can't go one post without cussing and being hostile lol
You get topicbanned for uncontrolled anger. You should probably tone it down if you want to keep in the discussion.
By Aldiel 2011-07-08 01:47:29
Now you are grasping at straws... Their parents are to blame then for not teaching them, I still shouldn't have to pay for it. Nor will I tolerate this conversation, if it may be deemed that, any long.
Seeya~
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By Aldiel 2011-07-08 01:49:12
And I'm still not angry, just disappointed. Good night.
Leviathan.Niniann
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2596
By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-08 01:50:07
So my argument that antibiotics decreases the effectiveness of birth control and this isn't common knowledge is a bad argument? really?
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Ragnarok.Hevans
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15274
By Ragnarok.Hevans 2011-07-08 01:57:55
Aldiel said: just because there's hair on it, it doesn't make you mature.
are you new here? this might as well be shavednerds.com
Leviathan.Niniann
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2596
By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-08 02:11:20
Ragnarok.Hevans said: are you new here? this might as well be shavednerds.com
AND I AM THE RAZOR
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サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5779
By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-08 02:15:18
lol Nini, don't derail this into a "no body hair" discussion! :P
Ragnarok.Anye
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5449
By Ragnarok.Anye 2011-07-08 02:16:38
Seems I got here a bit late. XD
Leviathan.Niniann
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2596
By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-08 02:17:27
Ifrit.Eikechi said: lol Nini, don't derail this into a "no body hair" discussion! :P
HE STARTED IT! *points finger accusingly*
Ragnarok.Anye said: Seems I got here a bit late. XD
YOU MISSED THE PARTY! :<
Ragnarok.Anye
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5449
By Ragnarok.Anye 2011-07-08 02:18:52
:< no one invited me!
Leviathan.Niniann
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2596
By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-08 02:25:49
Ragnarok.Anye said: :< no one invited me!
:<! Next time I PM you it won't be about issues it'll be... HEY ANYE THERE'S THIS THREAD COME PLAY! :O
vs Kansas:
Kansas to Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic Friday | Mother Jones
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/kansas-shut-down-all-abortion-clinics-friday
Quote: This story has been updated below.
It's official. Every abortion provider in the state of Kansas has been denied a license to continue operating as of July 1. As we reported last week, strict new state laws put in place this month threatened to close the remaining three abortion clinics in Kansas. The staff of one of these facilities, a Planned Parenthood clinic in Overland Park, initially thought their operation could survive the strict new standards. But on Thursday afternoon, Planned Parenthood announced that the Overland Park clinic has thus far been denied a license to continue operating—effectively cutting off access to legal abortion in the entire state.
The new law, which takes effect Friday, establishes new standards for abortion providers—standards apparently designed to make compliance difficult. The rules require changes to the size and number of rooms, compel clinics to have additional supplies on hand, and even mandate room temperatures for the facilities. Given that the rules were released less than two weeks before clinics were expected to be in compliance, many providers knew they wouldn't be able to obtain a license to continue operating. The laws, often called "targeted regulation of abortion providers," or TRAP laws, are an increasingly common legislative maneuver to limit access to abortion by redering it tough, if not impossible, for providers to comply.
With today's announcement that the Overland Park clinic was denied a license, Kansas becomes the first state to effectively make the legally protected right to obtain abortion services moot. One clinic in Kansas has already filed suit against the new rules, and a hearing on that suit is planned for Friday. Planned Parenthood is also expected to sue. The clinics are also expected to seek an injunction to block the law from being enforced. UPDATE: Planned Parenthood has filed suit. They are seeking an emergency injunction to allow their clinic to remain open while the lawsuit is pending.
"The women of Kansas waiting on their scheduled procedures will pay the immediate price for this outrageous and flagrant exertion of the radical GOP’s legislative muscle under the Brownback administration," said Kansas NOW in a statement Thursday, referring to conservative Republican Gov. Sam Brownback. "The freedom and right to legal healthcare has been denied to the women of Kansas."
UPDATE: In a statement issued Thursday evening, Peter Brownlie, president of Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri, seemed to hold out some hope that its clinic could still obtain a license to continue operating, even as the organization sought an injuction to block the law from taking effect. "We have been targeted in this bill and Kansas women are the ones who will suffer if their health care is taken away," said Brownlie. "This is radical, extreme government intrusion into private health care."
UPDATE 5:45 PM EST THURSDAY: The Associated Press is reporting that the Kansas Department of Health and Environment, after initially denying a license to Planned Parenthood, has now changed their mind. Stay tuned for more updates. PP said inspectors were back at the clinic Thursday reevaluating it, after earlier this week indicating that they would not be able to obtain one.
UPDATE 6:08 PM EST THURSDAY: Planned Parenthood just announced that the health department has, in fact, decided to grant it a license to continue operating. The PP clinic in Overland Park will remain open. "Notwithstanding that the regulations are burdensome and unnecessary, the findings of the inspection indicate what we have known and said throughout this process: Planned Parenthood operates with the highest standards of patient care and has rigorous safety procedures in place," Brownlie said.
UPDATE 7:15 PM EST FRIDAY: A federal judge in Kansas City has blocked the new abortion clinic regulations from taking effect.
Kansas Judge Blocks Abortion Clinic Regs | Mother Jones
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/07/kansas-judge-blocks-abortion-clinic-regs
Quote: A judge in Kansas has blocked the state's strict new regulations on abortion providers from taking effect, a move that will allow all three clinics in the state to continue offering services, the Kansas City Star reports.
On Friday afternoon, U.S District Judge Carlos Murguia granted a request from two clinics—Aid for Women in Kansas City and the Center for Women's Health in Overland Park—to grant temporary relief from the new rules, which took effect July 1. The clinics were denied a license to continue operating after the state issued new rules on June 17 that would have required both clinics to make major changes to their facilities. A third clinic, owned by Planned Parenthood, was granted a license to continue operating on Thursday.
The injunction will remain in place until the court hears the formal challenge to the state's regulations.
"This is a tremendous victory for women in Kansas and against the underhanded efforts of anti-choice politicians to shut down abortion providers in the state," said Center for Reproductive Rights president Nancy Northup, which joined with the clinics in filing the legal challenge to the law, in a statement Friday evening. "The facts were clear—this licensing process had absolutely nothing to do with patient health or safety and everything to do with political shenanigans."
The Kansas legislature passed a new law in April creating a new designation for abortion providers under the state's licensing system, and directed the Department of Health and Environment to issue new rules. The department issued 36-pages of rules on June 17 (though the clinics did not receive copies until June 20), mandating things like the size of waiting and recovery rooms, the number of bathrooms, and the required temperatures for each room in the facility. Clinic owners argued that it was impossible to meet the new standards, given that they were released just two weeks before the clinics were required to comply. Moreover, they argued, the rules had little to do with protecting patients and were designed to shut down the clinics.
This type of law, often called "targeted regulation of abortion providers," or "TRAP" laws, isn't exactly new or unique, but Kansas' would have gone farther than others in actually shutting down abortion providers.
Kate Sheppard covers energy and environmental politics in Mother Jones' Washington bureau. For more of her stories, click here. She Tweets here. Get Kate Sheppard's RSS feed.
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