Logical Fallacies And You!

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2010-06-21
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Logical Fallacies and You!
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By 2011-06-14 12:07:37
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 Ifrit.Daemun
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By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-14 12:08:26  
Lakshmi.Mabrook said:
Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Don't say someone is "trolling" unless s/he is trolling.
It was going great until you said this, that's a "whoosh" bro :x

Or in bigword logic: a contradiction of what you implied in the previous paragraph.
Gonna have to stop you there...

big word: ftfy
 Bismarck.Elanabelle
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2011-06-14 12:10:23  
Leviathan.Angelskiss said:
Are you still trying to find out if I wear panties sir?

Also getting off-topic, but why do some women not wear panties?

I don't understand it. If a woman is undressing and has no panties on, it's kind of disappointing. Lingerie has a lot of sex appeal.
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By zahrah 2011-06-14 12:17:14  
Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Leviathan.Angelskiss said:
I do enjoy debating with you Elana, whether we are on the same side or not.
:P

Also, I stand corrected. =)

Now the only question that remains is:

Are you still not wearing any panties?

(loaded question)

It is, sir! Mind your tongue!

Angel, be wary now you have the men folk wondering if you are indeed a fan of going commando. For the love of God! Don't check who's rating you up! LOL!
 Fairy.Spence
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By Fairy.Spence 2011-06-14 12:19:00  
Ope, I may have found someone to creep!
 Bismarck.Elanabelle
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2011-06-14 12:20:49  
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
I find trolling to be at the heart of logical fallacies as they play off of exactly that.

I agree.
(*gasp* did I just agree with Vinvv?)

In fact, I believe the entire internet culture is predicated on logical fallacies. It's a big reason why logical fallacies are so rampant and even accepted in the internet culture.

Think about it:
"there are no girls on the internet"
(a massive logical fallacy)
"pics or it didn't happen"
(another massive logical fallacy)

There's plenty more examples, too.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-14 12:55:57  
Continuation of informal logical fallacies:

One-Sidedness
Alias:
Card Stacking
Ignoring the Counterevidence
One-Sided Assessment
Slanting
Suppressed Evidence
Quote:
He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side; if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion.
Example:
You've spoke about having seen the children's prisons in Iraq. Can you describe what you saw there?
Quote:
The prison in question is at the General Security Services headquarters, which was inspected by my team in Jan. 1998. It appeared to be a prison for children—toddlers up to pre-adolescents—whose only crime was to be the offspring of those who have spoken out politically against the regime of Saddam Hussein. It was a horrific scene. Actually I'm not going to describe what I saw there because what I saw was so horrible that it can be used by those who would want to promote war with Iraq, and right now I'm waging peace.
Exposition:

A one-sided case presents only evidence favoring its conclusion, and ignores or downplays the evidence against it. In inductive reasoning, it is important to consider all of the available evidence before coming to a conclusion. For example, suppose that you have observed several white swans; then you might conclude:

All swans are white.

However, if you have observed even one black swan, you should not come to this conclusion. Instead, you might draw one of the weaker conclusions:
Almost all swans are white.
Most swans are white.
Typically, swans are white.

So, the total evidence available to you consists in observations of several white swans and a black one. Whatever conclusion that you draw needs to be consistent with this evidence, but "all swans are white" is inconsistent with there being even one black swan. To leave the black swan out of your reasoning would be One-sidedness.
Exposure:

Subfallacy:Appeal to Force

They also provided another tid-bit as a reader response that I'll tag on in spoilers as well:
------------------------
Red Herring Fallacy
Special Pleading
Vagueness
Weak Analogy
 Ifrit.Daemun
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By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-14 13:01:43  
Ramuh.Vinvv said:

Reader Response:

It seems to me there are many kinds of one-sidedness that are strategies more than arguments. For example, what I call "controlling the microphone." If somehow one side can control when a microphone is turned on (literally or figuratively), then the opposition may not be heard.
 
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 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-14 13:05:16  
Lakshmi.Mabrook said:
Determining an infinite is impossible.
How did you determine that?
 
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 Ifrit.Daemun
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By Ifrit.Daemun 2011-06-14 13:13:19  
Lakshmi.Mabrook said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Lakshmi.Mabrook said:
Determining an infinite is impossible.
How did you determine that?
That would then be considered a contradiction on my behalf sir.
That would be infinitely impossible
 Carbuncle.Ceolwulf
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By Carbuncle.Ceolwulf 2011-06-14 19:48:29  
Missed a couple of pages worth of arguments here, so my apologies. I'll be replying to this comment

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Listen, one has to take the entire context of a post into consideration. Isolating a single phrase from the last sentence of my post doesn't do it justice.
Your post was arguing your point that this welfare thing is a good idea. You ended with that quote in its own paragraph. All the appropriate context was given.

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
I opened that post by stating that it's obvious (to anyone who frequents this forum) that I'm fairly liberal with regard to social policy.
Although I believe the Florida Welfare drug-screen legislation has bipartisan support in the State legislature, limiting access (or cutting back on) Welfare is a conservative methodology, being signed into law by a Republican governor.
So, I'm saying that even as a liberal-ish individual, I fully support the Florida Welfare reform, even though it's being embraced and/or championed by conservative politicians, who I would normally disagree with.
None of that matters nor does it change the fact that your post ended in a straw man.

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
So, if an outspoken liberal-ish person is not against the drug screening for Welfare applicants, I have a hard time seeing how anyone could not think it's a sound idea ... unless I suppose one is a druggie Welfare recipient now.
It's hilarious (or sad?) that you ended that paragraph with an ad hominem.

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Spare me your "this won't decrease drug use" gibberish. What the hell else could it do? What the hell else would it's purpose be?
Erm... not decrease drug use? Maybe it would do that? But that's not my point; my point is that someone arguing against this change to welfare isn't against reducing the amount of drug users.

-----------------------------------------

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
THIS is a "straw man" fallacy:
"The President is lying when he says he doesn't support tax increases! Don't you remember when he lied about cheating on his wife?"
The speaker presents no proof that the President is lying about his stance on tax increases. However, he pushes doubt onto the listener by citing the President's history of lying about his infidelity. The President's personal life and his stance on tax increases have absolutely nothing to do with one another. However, the President has admitted to lying about his personal life, everyone knows about it, and it's regarded as shameful and embarrassing. Therefore, the speaker has "swung his sword" at the President's history of lying about his personal life (an indefensible but unrelated "straw man") and asked the listener to (illogically) assume the President must be lying about his stance on taxes, too.
Ah, I see the problem: you don't have the correct definition of a straw man argument. See, that isn't a straw man. The term "straw man" comes from when someone sets up a "straw man"-- or a misrepresentation of an opponents position-- and then refutes it as though they refuted the actual position. What you described is a red herring-- when someone tries to divert the argument away-- or even an ad hominem-- when someone links an arguments credibility to the person presenting the argument.

A correct example would have been

Carbuncle.Debatestudent said:
We should invest more money in NASA.
Carbuncle.Strawman said:
Why would we want to waste more of our money on telescopes and hopping around space when we have enough problems down here?

Carbuncle.Strawman completely misrepresented Carbuncle.Debatestudent's position-- she wasn't arguing for spending money on telescopes; she was arguing for investing money in NASA, an organization that helps thousands of people develop new technologies that help our everyday life.

It seems as though you are the one who needs a lesson in fallacies.
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By Phoenix.Jimie 2011-06-14 20:36:27  
Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
No, we can not, Daemun.
Epic slaughtering my ***.
More like pathetic dribble.

Jimie assumes that I "undermine everything before it" by "guiding" the reader. False.
That statement was a point of emphasis, NOT a point of subtle self-contradiction.

Defend this how you will, it does not negate the fact that the language style and sentence structure used serves the purpose I illustrated.

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Jimie also assumes that I'm attempting to stretch my argument beyond its boundaries, suggesting that I implied that all liberals must support this legislation because one liberal supports it. False.

Putting words in my mouth. I stated that your argument was that because one liberal (you) supports this legislature, that your support is sufficient in and of itself to mean that because a conservative policy has liberal support, it must be good and beyond challenge.


Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
I already mentioned that the legislation has (nearly unanimous) bipartisan support in the Florida legislature.

And I mentioned that the way you introduced this point was immediately undermined and cast aside by your very next sentence, having the effect of conciously or unconciously guiding the reader toward ignoring this.

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Furthermore, I stated I "have a hard time seeing how anyone could not think it's a sound idea". Notice I did NOT state that it's impossible (not possible) for anyone to not support the legislation. THAT would have been a logical fallacy.

No, you were implying that if someone didn't support this policy, then they do support not reducing the number of drug users which IS a logical fallacy.

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Those questions are not "loaded questions", either. Comical, really.
"Emotional language" by itself does not define or create a loaded question. Those questions were biased, yes. However, they were not "loaded".


You picked up on my use of the word "emotional" and cast aside the true support of my statement which was that your questions were question-begging. I said "emotional language emphasises the question begging presupposition that there is nothing else the policy could do."

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
The question challenges the reader to tell us what else would the legislation's purpose be besides curtailing drug abuse and preventing drug abusers from receiving tax monies. THAT IS the purpose of the legislation, and thus since the bias in the questions is based on FACT, they are inherently not fallacious.

This is most definitely a fallacy, you are stating that the legislation has one purpose and one purpose only, to curtail drug use. This ignores arguments such as: The policy has been put into motion to reduce governmental expenditure; The policy is a subtle attempt to force undesirable inhabitants out of town by forcing poverty upon them. Therefore, the bias in the questions is NOT based on FACT, there are other arguments which you conveniently ignore and due to these arguments being ignored, your questions once again can be perceived as loaded as they are
NOT based on FACT.

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Thanks for playing and all. But try picking on someone your own size next time.
Oh no, a fallacy. I've presumed that you are smallish and/or I am large.
[+]
 Ramuh.Krizz
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By Ramuh.Krizz 2011-06-14 20:37:39  
/sigh
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-06-14 20:41:42  
Phoenix.Jimie said:
Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
No, we can not, Daemun.
Epic slaughtering my ***.
More like pathetic dribble.

Jimie assumes that I "undermine everything before it" by "guiding" the reader. False.
That statement was a point of emphasis, NOT a point of subtle self-contradiction.

Defend this how you will, it does not negate the fact that the language style and sentence structure used serves the purpose I illustrated.

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Jimie also assumes that I'm attempting to stretch my argument beyond its boundaries, suggesting that I implied that all liberals must support this legislation because one liberal supports it. False.

Putting words in my mouth. I stated that your argument was that because one liberal (you) supports this legislature, that your support is sufficient in and of itself to mean that because a conservative policy has liberal support, it must be good and beyond challenge.


Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
I already mentioned that the legislation has (nearly unanimous) bipartisan support in the Florida legislature.

And I mentioned that the way you introduced this point was immediately undermined and cast aside by your very next sentence, having the effect of conciously or unconciously guiding the reader toward ignoring this.

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Furthermore, I stated I "have a hard time seeing how anyone could not think it's a sound idea". Notice I did NOT state that it's impossible (not possible) for anyone to not support the legislation. THAT would have been a logical fallacy.

No, you were implying that if someone didn't support this policy, then they do support not reducing the number of drug users which IS a logical fallacy.

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Those questions are not "loaded questions", either. Comical, really.
"Emotional language" by itself does not define or create a loaded question. Those questions were biased, yes. However, they were not "loaded".


You picked up on my use of the word "emotional" and cast aside the true support of my statement which was that your questions were question-begging. I said "emotional language emphasises the question begging presupposition that there is nothing else the policy could do."

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
The question challenges the reader to tell us what else would the legislation's purpose be besides curtailing drug abuse and preventing drug abusers from receiving tax monies. THAT IS the purpose of the legislation, and thus since the bias in the questions is based on FACT, they are inherently not fallacious.

This is most definitely a fallacy, you are stating that the legislation has one purpose and one purpose only, to curtail drug use. This ignores arguments such as: The policy has been put into motion to reduce governmental expenditure; The policy is a subtle attempt to force undesirable inhabitants out of town by forcing poverty upon them. Therefore, the bias in the questions is NOT based on FACT, there are other arguments which you conveniently ignore and due to these arguments being ignored, your questions once again can be perceived as loaded as they are
NOT based on FACT.

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Thanks for playing and all. But try picking on someone your own size next time.
Oh no, a fallacy. I've presumed that you are smallish and/or I am large.

You're one of my favourite posters, just so you know.
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-15 07:49:25  
Continuation of informal logical fallacies:

Red Herring Fallacy
Etymology:
Quote:
The name of this fallacy comes from the sport of fox hunting in which a dried, smoked herring, which is red in color, is dragged across the trail of the fox to throw the hounds off the scent. Thus, a "red herring" argument is one which distracts the audience from the issue in question through the introduction of some irrelevancy. This frequently occurs during debates when there is an at least implicit topic, yet it is easy to lose track of it. By extension, it applies to any argument in which the premisses are logically irrelevant to the conclusion.

Exposure:
Logical relevance is itself a vague and ambiguous notion. It is ambiguous in that different types of reasoning involve distinct types of relevance. It is vague in that there is little agreement among logicians about even deductive relevance, with logicians divided into different camps, so-called "relevance" logicians arguing for a more restrictive notion of logical relevance than so-called "classical" logicians.

Another ambiguity of the term "relevance" is that logical relevance can be confused with psychological relevance. The fact that two ideas are logically related may be one reason why one makes you think of the other, but there are other reasons, and the stream of consciousness often includes associations between ideas that are not at all logically related. Moreover, not all logical relations are obvious, so that a logical relationship may not cause a psychological relationship at all.

Because it is the most general fallacy of irrelevance, most fallacious arguments will be identified as some more specific type of irrelevancy.

Another example:

Quote:
THIS is a "straw man" fallacy:
"The President is lying when he says he doesn't support tax increases! Don't you remember when he lied about cheating on his wife?"
The speaker presents no proof that the President is lying about his stance on tax increases. However, he pushes doubt onto the listener by citing the President's history of lying about his infidelity. The President's personal life and his stance on tax increases have absolutely nothing to do with one another. However, the President has admitted to lying about his personal life, everyone knows about it, and it's regarded as shameful and embarrassing. Therefore, the speaker has "swung his sword" at the President's history of lying about his personal life (an indefensible but unrelated "straw man") and asked the listener to (illogically) assume the President must be lying about his stance on taxes, too.

The message in quotations happens to be both red herring and ad hominem or "abusive ad hominem" to be specific.

Ahem...

Some topically relevant material:The Backfire Effect
------------------------
Special Pleading
Vagueness
Weak Analogy
 Bismarck.Elanabelle
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2011-06-15 11:20:58  
Incorrect, Ceolwulf.

A "straw man" argument is an argument where one describes an irrelevant "dummy" (literally, a scarecrow "man" filled with straw or hay), that is much easier to attack than the actual content of the debate.

Hence, my previous example, which I maintain is an accurate example of a "straw man" argument:
Bismarck.Elanabelle said:

THIS is a "straw man" fallacy:
"The President is lying when he says he doesn't support tax increases! Don't you remember when he lied about cheating on his wife?"
The speaker presents no proof that the President is lying about his stance on tax increases. However, he pushes doubt onto the listener by citing the President's history of lying about his infidelity. The President's personal life and his stance on tax increases have absolutely nothing to do with one another. However, the President has admitted to lying about his personal life, everyone knows about it, and it's regarded as shameful and embarrassing. Therefore, the speaker has "swung his sword" at the President's history of lying about his personal life (an indefensible but unrelated "straw man") and asked the listener to (illogically) assume the President must be lying about his stance on taxes, too.

You were, however, correct in stating that my example is a "red herring" fallacy, since ALL straw-man arguments are red herrings.

What you have described in your example here:
Carbuncle.Strawman said:

Why would we want to waste more of our money on telescopes and hopping around space when we have enough problems down here?

is a logical fallacy known as an "Appeal to Emotion", specifically, an Appeal to Fear. Appeals to emotion are also all red herring fallacies.
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By Bismarck.Elanabelle 2011-06-15 11:33:56  
Phoenix.Jimie said:
Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
No, we can not, Daemun.
Epic slaughtering my ***.
More like pathetic dribble.

Jimie assumes that I "undermine everything before it" by "guiding" the reader. False.
That statement was a point of emphasis, NOT a point of subtle self-contradiction.

Defend this how you will, it does not negate the fact that the language style and sentence structure used serves the purpose I illustrated.


Fail. It does negate your argument. YOUR interpretation of my style and structure served your own self-serving purpose of attempting (and failing) to ridicule me. Your response here reeks of vagueness, which is (subjectively) the most transparent logical fallacy of them all.

Phoenix.Jimie said:

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Furthermore, I stated I "have a hard time seeing how anyone could not think it's a sound idea". Notice I did NOT state that it's impossible (not possible) for anyone to not support the legislation. THAT would have been a logical fallacy.

No, you were implying that if someone didn't support this policy, then they do support not reducing the number of drug users which IS a logical fallacy.

No.
I said I have a hard time seeing how anyone could not think it's a sound idea. That is what I said, and what I meant.
YOUR (biased) inference is that YOU think I meant if someone didn't support this policy, then s/he does not support reducing the number of drug users. Yes, YOUR inference is a logical fallacy, but my original statement is NOT.


Learn the difference between Imply and Infer.
If you or Ceolwulf would like some further education, feel free to PM me anytime.
 
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 Carbuncle.Ceolwulf
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By Carbuncle.Ceolwulf 2011-06-15 11:54:58  
Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
A "straw man" argument is an argument where one describes an irrelevant "dummy" (literally, a scarecrow "man" filled with straw or hay), that is much easier to attack than the actual content of the debate.
Everything about this is true except the "irrelevant" part: a straw man is a misrepresentation that is superficially similar to the original argument. That's why it's called a "straw man"-- it's supposed to be a superficial representation that might appear to be similar but is actually different.[1][2]

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
Hence, my previous example, which I maintain is an accurate example of a "straw man" argument:
Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
...
It still is not. There's nothing straw man about it, because the cheating claim has nothing to do with taxes. The usefulness of the straw man argument is that it appears to be related, so an uninformed listener might mistake it for an actual rebuttal.

Bismarck.Elanabelle said:
What you have described in your example here:
Carbuncle.Strawman said:

Why would we want to waste more of our money on telescopes and hopping around space when we have enough problems down here?

is a logical fallacy known as an "Appeal to Emotion", specifically, an Appeal to Fear. Appeals to emotion are also all red herring fallacies.
It's an appeal to emotion (specifically the part about "enough problems down here"; I wouldn't necessarily say it's an appeal to fear, though), but it's also an accurate representation of a straw man.

I'm not sure what else I can tell you. If you don't believe this, then I'm basically telling someone they're wrong with proper sources and they're putting their fingers in their ears.

edit: and a straw man isn't really a red herring. It's not intended to divert attention away; it's intended to appear to counter an opponent's position but actually not.
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-15 12:04:54  
I'd say if someone is implying what you are thinking/saying you aren't speaking with enough clarity, though the quantifiable nature of "clarity" eludes me.

Quote:
If you can't explain something simply, you don't know enough about it.
-Albert Einstein

By the way, I'm thinking of doing a run through of all the concepts and the way I perceive them in a simplified manner at the end of this thread once I'm done running through all the concepts.
========================
Continuation of informal logical fallacies:
Special Pleading
-
Form:
Rule:
Xs are generally Ys.
x is an X.
x is an exception to the rule because it is I (where I is an irrelevant characteristic).
Therefore, x is not a Y.
Example:
Quote:
The law requires everyone to follow the speed limit and other traffic regulations, but in Suffolk County, exceptions should be made for cops and their families, police union officials say.

Police Benevolent Association president Jeff Frayler said Thursday it has been union policy to discourage Suffolk police officers from issuing tickets to fellow officers, regardless of where they work.

"Police officers have discretion whenever they stop anyone, but they should particularly extend that courtesy in the case of other police officers and their families," Frayler said in a brief telephone interview Thursday. "It is a professional courtesy."
Counter-Example:
Quote:
Police officers occasionally have to shoot and kill suspects. So, family members of police officers should never be charged with murder if they shoot and kill someone. It's a professional courtesy.

Exposition:
Quote:
Many rules—called "rules of thumb"—have exceptions for relevant cases. The fallacy of Special Pleading occurs when someone argues that a case is an exception to a rule based upon an irrelevant characteristic that does not define an exception.
Exposure:
People are most tempted to engage in special pleading when they are subject to a law or moral rule that they wish to evade. People often attempt to apply a "double standard", which makes an exception to the rule for themselves—or people like them—but applies it to others. They usually do not argue that they, or their group, should be exempt from the rule simply because of who they are; this would be such obvious special pleading that no one would be fooled. Instead, they invoke some characteristic that they have that sets them apart; however, if the characteristic is not a relevant exception to the rule, then they are engaged in special pleading.

Analysis of the Example:
Quote:
The rule in this example is the speed limit, which has exceptions. For instance, it is legally permissible for on-duty police officers, driving their official vehicles, to break the speed limit in pursuit of criminals or to answer emergency calls. However, off-duty officers driving private cars have no more reason to break the speed limit than do other citizens. The mere fact of being a police officer is an irrelevant characteristic rather than an exception to the law. A fortiori, it is an irrelevant characteristic to be a family member of a police officer. So, it is a case of special pleading to argue that off-duty police officers and their families should not be ticketed in circumstances in which a civilian would be.
-------------------------
Vagueness
Weak Analogy

edit:
and as for the whole straw-man debacle, I will re-illustrate a more rounded view upon what a straw-man is rather than go through the talking points. Not trying to shoot either arguments in the foot, but I wanted to just have the actual baseline of the "straw man" to be accurately illustrated and I feel this does it pretty well.
So in kind I'm going to repost this:
Quote:
The Straw Man is a type of Red Herring because the arguer is attempting to refute his opponent's position, and in the context is required to do so, but instead attacks a position—the "straw man"—not held by his opponent. In a Straw Man argument, the arguer argues to a conclusion that denies the "straw man" he has set up, but misses the target. There may be nothing wrong with the argument presented by the arguer when it is taken out of context, that is, it may be a perfectly good argument against the straw man. It is only because the burden of proof is on the arguer to argue against the opponent's position that a Straw Man fallacy is committed. So, the fallacy is not simply the argument, but the entire situation of the argument occurring in such a context.
[+]
 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-15 13:28:40  
I wanted to hit on the whole infer/imply thing as well, so here we go:
Infer
-to derive by reasoning; conclude or judge from premises or evidence: They inferred his displeasure from his cool tone of voice.
Imply
-to indicate or suggest without being explicitly stated: His words implied a lack of faith.
Quote:
The use of infer to mean imply is becoming more and more common in both speech and writing. There is nevertheless a useful distinction between the two which many people would be in favour of maintaining. To infer means `to deduce', and is used in the construction to infer something from something : I inferred from what she said that she had not been well . To imply (sense 1) means `to suggest, to insinuate' and is normally followed by a clause: are you implying that I was responsible for the mistake?

My personal distinction between the two is that one you make a baseless assumption, the other you make a reasoned assumption.
Though much of this may get lost in the definitions of sub-definitions and so on/so forth.
I personally identify it in the way that one would liken a guess(imply), and an educated guess(infer).

Though the validity of the inference falls on implications no matter what if you deconstruct it to a certain point with the language, but I guess that would come with many things.
 Shiva.Nikolce
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By Shiva.Nikolce 2011-06-15 13:39:54  
nothing is true, everything is permitted
 
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 Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-15 14:13:20  
Shiva.Nikolce said:
nothing is true, everything is permitted
Rule of thumb-A rule which holds true for all normal members of a class, but admits exceptions.
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By Tottoro 2011-06-15 14:24:00  
Shiva.Nikolce said:
nothing is true, everything is permitted

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By Shiva.Nikolce 2011-06-15 15:11:10  
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Shiva.Nikolce said:
nothing is true, everything is permitted
Rule of thumb-A rule which holds true for all normal members of a class, but admits exceptions.

normalcy is an illusion, shed all of your convictions and come taste the rainbow.
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2011-06-15 18:03:10  
Shiva.Nikolce said:
Ramuh.Vinvv said:
Shiva.Nikolce said:
nothing is true, everything is permitted
Rule of thumb-A rule which holds true for all normal members of a class, but admits exceptions.

normalcy is an illusion, shed all of your convictions and come taste the rainbow.
Does not invalidate the statement. :D
Normalcy is as figmentary as hope or love.
It's yet another aspect of our....let me get it right here... "perceived cultural balance".
it's a line in the sand.
which is exactly why I mentioned rule of thumb in the first place.

Quote:
nothing is true, everything is permitted
^Rule of thumb.
holy hell. i just noticed the youtube symbol there.

also nik, I have yet to reach a rainbow directly, I've tried and failed several times.*

*Not really, maybe like once or twice at most as a child...
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