SCH Top Mage?

See Korpg's post.


This, dammit.

Irrelevant, I'm talking about resists among the 95% "possible" non-resisted spells.

BLM will get way less resisted than SCH while MBing, +25 MaCC is a lot.

I have only been playing for a short time, and it's only lvl 68, but what appeals me to SCH is the fact that I can be equally effective with both Black and White Magic. I agree with nearly everything everyone on this thread has said. Black Mage does need some attention. I don't think that I will be able to effectively fill the roll of primary nuker that BLM fills so well, but I think SCH makes a worthwhile substitute. I would say the same with WHM.
A weekness that SCH has in comparison to BLM and WHM is that, like others have said, we are COMPLETELY dependent on sub jobs. Also, when it comes to stratagem only spells, we can be very limited if we need to cure Doom or Petrify on the fly. I have the most complicated macros just to manage all the spells, stratagems, JAs, gear swaps, macro book switches just to play the job to it's fullest.

I have major respect for WHM, BLM and RDM. They are amazing jobs. However, my play style tends to drift towards adaptability and hybridization. This is why I love BLU so much, and SCH. I find switching Arts on the fly is fun. You really have to think three steps ahead when playing that job. It's complicated and tricky, but that's its appeal for me. SCH will find it's niche in FFXI. Just keep an open mind. :)

This and also no -AGA nuke, and no -AGA sleep (beside Manifestation, which double cast time / cooldown... and /blm sleepga 1).

This mean SCH is unable to :

-Be efficient when heavy crowd control is needed (like Dynamis, especially dreamland/tav).

-AGA manaburn :
>> xNM or quests (DM etc...), BLM AGA 3 will always be superior when it comes to this.
>>Salvage, in some situation like AR last floor, if a fanatic drink was available mid-run, BLM can grab it and Manafont+Fanatic drink. Can take down 6~7 gear alone which enable the party to clear the floor easily under 7 minutes. (can do <4min easy).
>>Lesser mobs / PH killing, BLM can train 10+ small mobs like Eft or Bugards and take these down with a couple of AGA III spells.
>>Ix'Aern DRG spawn, can AGA III all aerns and clear the room really fast.
>>Dynamis Xar, killing all eyes with AGA III. Ying/Yang with AGA III also.

-Timenuke in general, what matters only is the damage spike, you don't care about dmg/MP efficiency.

-Get the +25 MaCC / +15% potency (+20% with AFv2 hands) bonus BLMs can get while MB'ing with AM II.

So yeah even if on long HNM fight SCH is more efficient than a blm (speaking about dmg/MP ratio here), I want say who cares about HNMs ? Ever saw a LS wiping because their BLM were out of MP ? Any decent shell can take down all HNMs nowadays anyway...

Now try doing Dynamis without a single BLM, have fun, especially in tavnazia, it's lovely. Clear xNM under 2min with some SCH. Enjoy your DM with a SCH burn etc... In most of event now, dmg/MP efficiency ain't that important,

Take Salvage for example :

-MP refill everyone floor, meaning often...
-Lot of MP restorative items, especially in SSR where it's items fest.
-11MP/tick refresh (3 (RDM) + 2 (Ballad 1 with fife) + 3 (Ballad 2 with fife) + 1 (Sanction) + 1 (Body) + 1 (ToAU ring)). When BRD Sould Voice I barely see my MP going down. Even boss fight ain't an issue.

Who needs dmg/MP efficiency with this :/

Dynamis ? Lot of MP stats, double dark meaning good blm can aspir 130MP+ per 60 seconds in average.
Limbus ? Well BLM solo some area pretty well, nothing to add.
Assault ? Did all 50 with my BLM, no issue. Worse case, can always use an hi-elixir for emergency.
Soloing XP ? Well I can reach chain #6 on pudding camp with a BLM. I doubt SCH can reach chain #7. So at best it'll tie a BLM.

---

And no I'm not saying SCH is useless, SCH is a great job and very versatile. Still got many advantage over BLM in some situations but it's far from replacing BLM.

when you said this did you mean that NIN's were or ARE really good? or did you mean NIN was nerfed? Just trying to see what you meant by the comparison :)

I assume he meant like NIN can DD fairly well (But can't top a normal DD), tank fairly well (But can't top a PLD), and nuke/enfeeble fairly well (But can't top BLM or RDM)

^ I lol'ed.

I keep hearing things like SCH is overpowered, SCH is broken, SCH needs to be nerfed. I play a SCH, and a BLM and a RDM, and I cannot seem to wrap my mind around the fact that SCH beats them out in nuking or enfeebling. As people have already said, SCH is limited by stratagem charges, lower than A+ skill ratings naturally, and hindered by recast of light and dark arts.

As a side note, a BLM that consistently gets beaten in damage by a SCH is no where near their full potential, either for gear or merits. BLM are powerhouses that acquire gear and merits to far surpass the damage that SCH puts out. Any RDM that consistently get beaten out by a SCH obviously aren't throwing tier II enfeebs, or it wouldn't matter.

To say that SCH needs to be nerfed instead of beefing other jobs (which they will in the next update) isn't right. To find a "balance" between jobs when the game play of jobs is supposed to be different anyway within the myriad of situations the game provides is a daunting task worthy of the most severe headaches.

There is still a few things that surprises me still that nobody in this thread has mentioned and I'm certain that it'll make someone angry.

Windbag
Gravija
Stunga
Dispelga
Aspirga
Drainga

Having those at the SCH's disposal is a mighty weapon indeed if you're doing huge crowd control.

Wtf is windbag?

Okay, metaphor time:

A BLM is like a sprinter, it can go very fast (alot of damage) for a limited amount of time.

A SCH is like a marathon runner. it can't go quite as fast (deal as much damage), but it can keep it up for a longer period of time.

Neither is a better athelete (or mage), IT IS SITUATIONAL.

SCH making anything AOE in my experience tends to have a great deal of risk to go along with it. If you do not have backup to resleep or whatever you are going to die very quickly. RDM and BLM are kings of crowd control. AOE-stun or Dispel is just asking to get yourself killed.

I'm a 75 sch and I quickly got tired of it. If I have to solo/nuke something I just go on RDM. SCH has too many downsides to me and less survivability solo.
I have not used SCH a great deal, but they can be quite good at multiple roles. Quite good, but not the best in my opinion. I have a friend who is a very good SCH. I've watched and duo'd with him enough to know what a good sch is.
Give me thunderaga iv and i'll re-evaluate my position. :)

Maybe thats what is used for the wonderful music in Sandy

Tallulah put it pretty much where it needed to be, with a few exceptions. I've played SCH in Dyna on more than many occasions, alternating between healing when the WHM is MP'ed out, and performing heavy crowd control. In my experience, maybe its the BLM on my server, maybe its me, but SCH can keep up the role of mob manipulation just as well as BLM or RDM.

On the flip side, they do create a ton of enmity with their AoE's, and while they have relatively the same survivability as another mage subbing for Blink and Stoneskin, they can tend to die more frequently than their counterparts because of missing spells. BLM have stun to quickly get out of combat with an enraged mob, and RDM's fast cast can slip spells between attacks. However, many SCHs I know that try to play the role of mob manipulator usually try to do too much at a time. For any SCH out their, if your life is depending on a spell cast, you do not HAVE to switch arts if you can cast the spell without Addendum. I see more face down SCHs because they hit their art macro to save MP/time when the time it took to burn the job ability cost them more.

In truth, I still see more merit to BLMs and RDMs as far as most endgame situations go. The lack of inherent SCH skills make resist more of a probability, the lack of critical spells with subjob combination, and the reliance on stratagems to perform their role makes them idealy the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none, but I would not say they "Top Mage."

I thought that was a shitbag...

Paladin is the top mage and none of you guys knew! dont you all feel stupid now *_*

Doing Almatheia a while back as Scholar I was getting resisted less than people there as BLM. Of course, I heard of this crazy thing nobody posting in this thread seems to recall exists called "Klimaform." It really helps your magic accuracy and you can use it much of the time if you pop Alacrity first.

And soloing Puddings as Scholar I outdamage lots of the BLMs I see there using Parsimony nukes. These things called "Hailstorm", "INT merits", and "food" are pretty handy. I'm not sure why somebody above seems to think SCH can't Gravity kite/Sleep Nuke or that RDM is better at it.

Both BLM & SCH here with pretty decent gear for both...I'm not sure what a lot of people's problem is with either job's nuking capabilities.

I wanna know why I said Windbag too... xD I think I meant to say "Bindga"

i wanna see a scholar solo something like seiryu.

I wanna see retards who babble about people soloing Seiryu do it on any *** job themselves.

when i tried to be main sleeper in dynamis as sch it was like me and 1 rdm 1 blm in jeuno after boss. so, i'm sure it was inevitable getting a frypan to the head.

To me the problem with all this is you're assuming the SCH is going to go toe to toe nuking next to a BLM (outside manaburn). Yeah, in a situation like that over time they may out last a BLM.

You can not really force a versatile class like SCH into a set role and fairly judge it. Any SCH who understands what they can do will not always be sitting in Dark Arts with an Addendum up, and the only situation where I can see any sort of 'set role' for a SCH will be an event where WHM are lacking.

-na spells require Light Arts + Addendum unless /whm in which case you lose out on any magic attack bonus and fast cast. In a pt or event where aoe stoneskin is useful, have stormsurge merited and need it on all the part? That is light arts + 2 strategems for accession. Then back to dark arts (assuming timer is up) and + 1 strategem for Addendum ..so that leaves 1 for cutting your MP cost of your next nuke, but don't forget you just doubled your mp cost for your storm and stoneskin.

So I guess the point I'm trying to make is yeah..you shove a SCH and a BLM next to each other and say 'Nuke' and the SCH may get the medal for endurance. Take a SCH who enjoys being a SCH and you'll find they will fall right in the middle. Now I do realize BLM have more duties in various events other than nuking, but they're still more focused duties than a SCH. I would smack any scholar upside the head that watched 'xxx is paralyzed' on their screen and did nothing just so they could nuke, and vice versa..I would do the same if I saw a scholar watch as the blm's get pummeled by statues in Dynamis and not move into dark arts to help.

Personally I do not think the two classes are comparable, I agree BLM may need something to give it more of an edge though but in the grand scheme of it all is it as bad as some of you people are making it out to be?