Mattress Firm Refuses To Sell To Muslim Woman

Not a week goes by that muslims don't have a violent protest over something frivolous such as other people exercising their right to speak freely. Or they're just out right blowing up people who don't subscribe to their flavor of crazy. I'm a Christian, and my beliefs are under constant attack, but you don't see me or other Christians rioting in the streets burning flags and cars and threating the world with some global holy war if non Christians don't stop saying things that are less than flattering about our religion. To the contrary, I respect other peoples right to believe and say what they like unconditionally, whether I agree with them or not, whether what they say shocks, offends, or disgusts me. Islam is a religion then by its very doctrine cannot permit such freedoms to its own believers and apparently endorses the killing of non-believers, or atleast it doesn't discourage it.

edit; Removed quote.

McVeigh is really the only reasonable example you gave Elana and he was one crazy "White-bread" and only blew up one building, muslims blow up something, somewhere on a weekly basis, biweekly at the best. If you think denying someone service because they're wearing attire that obfuscates their appearance is over board paranoia check out this clip.

*** TSA. I don't want even think about them or they'll piss me off for weeks on end again.

Pretty much.

I come from the south of France where there are so many muslim people that they aren't exactly a minority. France despite voting laws like the one against burqa still adapt to their way of life rather than keeping the French habits.

Example: in France there are basically 2 big fast foods. Mc donald's and Quick. Quick has, since a few years now, started to only sell "halal" meat which is the only meat muslims are allowed to eat. Of course, it's still meat and it doesn't change anything for burgers that are equivalent to a big mac or a whoper. When it starts to hurt, it's when they follow this trend by removing ANY product with pork, good bye bacon.

Then, they cry like little girls when there is a law against burqa which anyway only target a minority (I lived in a mostly muslim French city being the second biggest city of the country right after Paris and I didn't see many woman covering their face, it's extremely rare).

Personally I don't care about muslims in the way that I'm not scared by them nor do I care if an arabic/black/whatever person is muslim or not, it's a person period. But I am very annoyed when my way of life is hit by religious things as personally I don't shove my way of life down other people's throat.

I would like to go to fast food and order a baconnator burger.

Now I live in UK where muslims have more freedom than in France yet people here complain as much as a typical French because their way of life is changed due to religious things. Like a person is not allowed to keep his hoodie on in a store while a woman in burqa is perfectly fine.

It's a lost fight really.

I agree with some of the people that it's mostly paranoïa and other HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE american stereotypes (though, you guys are pretty good at stereotyping the ***out of yourself day after day so it might not be much of a stereotype at some point) but it is a fact that government whether EU ones or USA and generally everything appearing in public tend to lick muslim's and other "supposed minorities'" *** rather than keep following the ideas the countries have been built on.

I don't mind personally, I'm the whitest thing around but I have no problem being around muslims and a woman not showing anything only makes me think "she must be really ugly" or just "k".

i only got to this point in the thread.

it seems that Silvaria thinks that only some of us have rights. Namely only the minorities and people she agrees with have rights.

I can tell you exactly where it is written in the constitution. Go read the tenth amendment, it is in there, but not in your exact words.

And i just can not understand why groups of people who seem to always be very concerned with women's rights are the same people who support islamic culture in the western world. It is not OK for jim-bob to beat his wife after coming home drunk from bowling, but we will force a teenager to go back to the parents that she fled, knowing fully that her father will kill her as an "Honor Killing" when she gets home. This is the same father who brutally had her clitoris removed when she was an infant.
How can you say you stand for women's rights while you also stand for the greatest oppression of women we have seen in at least the last century? The purpose of the burka is to make a woman less than a person in public.

Hug is pretty correct in his statement.

Except, you know, he's not.
Well not his last line anyways.

This is what I hate... I know someone who thinks like this too.. As if American culture and way of life is supposed to bow to that of those who immigrate here... Its true our country is one that assimilates others cultures and grows and changes... but if you want to come and live in a land you should have to make accommodations to adjust and grow with the nation... It shouldn't be where someone moves here and the natural residents accommodate them... I'm not saying anyone should give up their culture but there is a change in lifestyle when you come here... the main one for me is learning the language... a national language should be set in stone and it should be a requirement to learn to become a citizen... I believe the same for myself if I were to move to another country...

Buying mattresses is only part of the bigger picture you fools!!!!

The springs can be used as shrapnel inside a bomb while the stuffing from many many mattress could be used to make a giant crash pad that a terrorist could jump out of a plane and land on after pointing it on a crash course with a kids school. all the while using the fabric to make turbans and diapers for the next generation of terrorist to grow up on!!!!

GEEEZ for the sake of soft cuddly teddy bears everywhere tighten security and assign a task force to monitor mattress stores everywhere!!!!!!!!!!

Oh yes, let's be absurd. That's very productive.

Shouldn't you feel comfy at home?

Yeah, I'd say you're misinformed, or at least under-informed.

You got the first part correct: people come to the USA for religious freedom (among many other freedoms).

The second part of your statement is the bigoted part: "yet continuing to conform yourself to wardrobes that oppressed you in your native homeland confuses me".
It sounds like you're presuming that all women come to the USA so that they can feel liberated to wear thongs, pants, and lip gloss. While it's possible that *some* women might be seeking that ... the majority of immigrants simply wish to (lawfully) do as they wish WITHOUT PERSECUTION for being "different". Ya know, the whole principle upon which the USA was founded: life, liberty, and the pursuit of individual happiness.

Don't get me wrong. I think the burqa garb is archaic and demeaning to women. But I think it's myopic and ridiculous that it seems some posters in this thread are trying to make it a "pro-burqa vs. anti-burqa" argument (it's amusing to me since there isn't anyone arguing "pro-burqa" here at all).

Let me sum it up for ya'll and try to get you back on track:

Western eyes tend to perceive the burqa as demeaning to women.
Muslim women (in general) do not perceive their burqas as demeaning at all ... to them, it's a sign of decency and respect.
So, in this country, founded on principles of individual equality and freedoms of individual expression ... you are free to dislike a burqa for what you think it represents ... but you are an un-American bigot if you treat a non-threatening person as a "security risk" solely based on her appearance.

Have you learned nothing from Martin Luther King?

If someone comes in to your place of business dressed like these folks:




then YES, you may indeed have a "security threat" on your hands.
However, if you REALLY claim to be an "American" American, to honor the freedom your country grants you, you MUST NOT treat this person:


with ANY less respect than these people in your store:




Remember, if terrorists' actions make you afraid of things/people that are NOT inherently threatening or dangerous, THEN THE TERRORISTS WIN AND GOT EXACTLY WHAT THEY HOPED TO ACHIEVE.

Don't be a living casualty of terrorism. Use your brain, not just your eyes.

Yeah, but the Mormons think it's okay to marry multiple women.

Why can we step on the toes of everyone else but the Muslims?

Hell, I'll go further.

Christian fathers used to beat the hell out of their kids to make them "God lovin' young men!" and we stopped that. They didn't see anything wrong with that.

Everyone else did.

It's nice to feel comfortable. But no where in the Constitution or any American laws is an individual guaranteed "comfort" at all times. Rather, you are guaranteed freedom. Freedom and comfort are not the same thing. In fact, they are quite different. Many times, one must sacrifice some personal comfort in order to promote freedom for all.

The thread is still going strong I see!

Last I checked the constitution didn't allow you to wear whatever type of clothing you'd like anywhere you'd like. This is why you can have dress codes in restaurants. It also doesn't guarantee you the freedom of wearing no clothing. Edit: In public of course. In private you can wear or not wear pretty much whatever you damned well please.

Legally, you could deny service to people wearing facial coverings if that was your store policy. You just have to make sure to prosecute the policy across the spectrum of race and religion.

If I remember the article correctly, the manager said it was store policy to refuse service to people for which it was impossible to verify their identity. If the only customer were the woman in the burqa then he would have had a defensible position in denying her service. However, her husband was there and to deny him service when his identity was easily verifiable was silly and against policy; thus obviously discrimination.

Y'know Elana, despite all the petty arguments you get into, I don't know why people think you're unintelligent.


This is what I was aiming for, Xueye, not that I don't necessarily agree with you, but it's pretty arrogant to dismiss a custom like that as having no place.

Pray-tell, Spence, what exactly about my posts here has been "unintelligent"?

For the first time that I can recall in this thread, you seem genuine and rational and not brain-dead, Arawn. Kudos.
I agree with what you've said here.

But the Christian family sees nothing wrong with the beatings because it puts the fear of God in the kiddies.

I kinda view it a lot like Stockholm's.

Edit: Sometimes it takes the neighbor to say "You know, you guys may say it's good, but you really may want to think about not beating (subduing) your kids (women)".

OMG I just +1ed an Elanabelle post. First time for everything I guess.

Hmmm? Thats basically what I was saying last night. Or at least think thats what my real point was. Perhaps I wasn't getting it across as clearly as I thought I was at 2 am. Of course, I did have to deal with someone who was constantly trying to put words in my mouth.

Anyway, I was curious and went looking. Apparently France isn't the only place to ban facial coverings in public. It has been law since 1975 in Italy that you can't cover your face in public places like streets and parks. In Syria the facial coverings are banned in their universities.

The deal with France and Italy is that they prohibit facial coverings for 'everyone' in public. This, of course, is supposed to make it a non-discriminatory law. There are exceptions to covering your face, however. Motorcycle helmets, carnival masks during carnivals, etc. are exeptions. The Burqa has been forbidden in French public schools since 2004. The reasoning behind this, apparently, is that the Burqa is a religious symbol much like christian crosses which are also prohibited in their schools since the secular takeover of the school system from the catholic church last century.

Israel has ban proposed on the burkha for all women and Australia has had a burkha ban proposed in their country as well. Though, some rabbis don't think the ban in public goes far enough and suggest that all Jewish women be forbidden from wearing it since they consider the Burkha to be a matter of sexual deviancy.

Though, to be honest, in most countries the Burkha is no longer a symbol of the oppression of women. In Pakistan the Burkha is rarely worn. Apparently, from what I read, the burkha is worn mostly in the rural Northwest as a sign of class and wealth.

However, this does not excuse the fact that in other countries the Burkha is mandated to be worn by such groups as the Taliban on pain of death. In the Taliban controlled areas of Afghanistan they still forbid women from attending school. This of course contributes to their abysmal 28% literacy rate. So you can naturally see why many people view the Burkha as a sign of oppression.


edited to correct minor errors.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

I should try that idea with the girl next door.
You may think being a virgin is nice, but I'm sure after I force myself upon you a few times you'll start to like it.

Why are we so against Communism and Dictatorships in North America? Let's try them out. Maybe after being wrongly jailed and whipped a couple dozen times we'll find it better than democracy?

Yes, I can. As stated before, I too view the burqa as a symbol of oppression. I find them to be distasteful, in general.

But that's neither here nor there.

The point I think the OP is making (and I fully agree and support) is that denying service to a Muslim woman wearing a burqa ... solely because she is wearing a burqa ... is discriminatory, paranoid, and (contrary to the beliefs of those who applaud the store manager from the OP's news article) entirely UN-AMERICAN.

To applaud discrimination lowers one to the level of the terrorists. To applaud paranoia makes one a living casualty of terrorism, since one has become afraid of something that is inherently benign and non-threatening.

I just want to make it clear (not directly to you, Arawn) that if you support generalized anti-Muslim sentiment or applaud "the man" for "sticking it to those burqa-loving towel-heads" then the Islamic fundamentalists (Al-Qaeda, etc.) got EXACTLY what they hoped to achieve. One may think he is "winning" the cultural war by shunning Muslims (or supporting/applauding others who shun Muslims), but the fact is ... you aren't "winning" anything; in fact, you've already lost.

Christ! It was a compliment! Take it! Don't start in on Spence now.

By the way, I think I'm going to book a flight to Saudi Arabia. What do I need to pack? Western clothes and maybe my confirmation cross to top it off (if I can find it)? They're just as tolerant as the West, right? Well, no worries about coming back in a body bag then.

Anyway, can anyone spare some armor? I need something that can withstand a barrage of stones.

It's okay, zahrah, I sent him a PM ~

You're right Zahrah; it was a compliment. I just didn't interpret it as one initially. Spence and I talked it over via PM's, and he said he understood how I could have misinterpreted his wording, and I now recognize what he intended.
In hindsight, thanks Spence!

Regarding your need for armor to avoid a stoning, I doubt you'd get stoned unless you did something totally blasphemous. However, you may need to be on the lookout for shoes.

A compliment veiled in an insult, but spence speaks the truth and truth hurts lol.