Who Is Lowering The Price?

Hello people i was searching for some items and i saw very strange thing happening

in bahamut server, there are seven people selling the same items over and over

trying to lower the prices. check out the names:

Poochan, Evenoel, Kiminaro, Tsugunai, Yangel, Luitan, Rioroute.

RMT most likely.

What RMT tend to do, is:

Flood Market -> Lower Price
-> Buy up all stock at lower price for a while
-> Increase price (as much as ~5x the original price sometimes).

Normally they'll do it on "must have" items, Woodsman Rings, Sniper's Rings, etc.

Yes. I found them: Hipoko, Kuroaka, Miyafe, Viliang, Damots, Korovi

Why do these people deserve to be called out exactly?

I've done that myself before. /shrug

RMT or not, it's basic economics: buy low, sell high.

i've never seen rmt lower the price before. i'm used to just seeing a sudden jump from like 80k to 250k for no reason. i don't understand why they would waste all that money on AH tax and crap to lower the price when they could easily just buy them all and jack up the price and camp the AH for any new postings...

they put them up for low and BUY IT THEMSELVES and when more people put them up for low they buy those too. then when they feel they have enough they sell them for higher prices. RMT aren't the only people that do it. and news flash it's not against TOS. they aren't wasting money on the tax because they will then turn around and sell for more than the price they undercut and make it all back plus more. it's not new, or even a big deal.


^this.

You're silly if you think it's just economics causing the price to go down. It's actually fixing the prices. The RMT use 2 accounts and list 1 item over and over buying it with a mule so it looks like a legit transaction. They then camp the ah for people stupid enough to sell an astral ring at 60k. in about a week you will see the prices jump up to around 200k and they'll try to offload all the crap that they bought up. And yes you can get banned for doing this.

nope you can't get banned. talk to a GM. i do this all the time, and know other people that do too. AH manipulation is NOT a bannable offense.

the reason RMT get banned for doing this is because the money they make is used in RMT activities. regular everyday players that aren't selling gil can do this all they want.

It's not the GMs that do the banning on these it's the STF they're a completely different group. I doubt whatever you do is on the same level as the rmt he's talking about. However, if you started fixing the price of 20 items i bet you'd get banned. If you want to get these people off your server just report them to the STF on the pol site but, as darc said you wont get very far talking to a gm about it.

i got investigated for it. either way they told me it's not against TOS. the people that reported me were probably people that were unhappy i was raising the price on food. some people i swear...if they wanna complain they can level up cooking. it isn't that hard...it's not like fishing or anything.

anyways, as long as you are not selling gil (or other devious RMT activities) you can manipulate the AH. just don't be surprised when you log into GM jail, or get kicked off while muling. seriously, dealing with their investigators is like dealing with dell/xbox 360 customer service. you'll be back to playing soon afterwards and have the satisfaction of knowing that you beat the system. if only they would tell you who reported them so you could send them pebbles. lol ^^

Why pebbles?

Everyone loves a good rock salting!

Really though, price manipulation goes on all the time in RL and in the game. It's just that in RL people are often too dense to see it.

Price of Crude stays same for a month and price of gasoline goes up almost 10%. Why? Because refineries cut production, thus driving the price up. Tell me that isn't blatent price fixing that happens in front of our faces. There's no GM to call to "ban" the oil companies, but that doesn't mean that there's something we can't do.

We, the consumers, can also control the price of things by refusing to buy. (Warning: Extreme Example) Tell me that if the going price of a Hagun is 3 Million, and that magically in some way everyone looking to buy one decided that they absolutely would not pay more than 2 Million for the Hagun. People would still do the ENM for the shot at making gil, thus causing there to be more and more supply.

Given enough time, people will get tired of watching their Potential gil (unsold Hagun) sit there and do nothing for them, especially if they have to pay out a share to their investors, so they will make a decision to sell it for a lower price. If the consumers can hold out long enough, they can make significant change.

Back to gasoline for a minute, because it's a great example. The single biggest factor that contributed to driving the price down was that people changed their habits and greatly reduced their consumption. This cause a backup of supply and a lowering of price to encourage more people to purchase. Eventually you reach a balance point, and hopefully it gets back to where it should be.

I love when people tell me something is worth XXX gil, but then they are completely unable to sell it for XXX gil. In truth, something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay. That, my friends, is determined by the buyers, based on a combination of their needs, their checkbook, and their patience.

You ask who is lowering the price? Heck, the buyers have a lot more control over this than the sellers.

.....................

The thing with FFXI and especially FFXIAH is that we have a level of transparency that is not present in real life. To borrow from and paraphrase Lewis Black...

It's like being in a hotel and knowing that somewhere in the hotel there are people getting it on, compared to looking out the window and seeing two dogs humping on the lawn. It's the same action, but at least one you suspect but it's hidden away, while the other is right in front of you.

^This..... THIS THIS THIS THIS AND THIS...

The downside is not many people are educated in economics and tend to feel whatever the listed price is, will in fact be it's value and will in essence "give in" to the trend of controlled pricing regardless of supply or cost.

Is Hagun really worth 3m? I personally think not. Does that stop everyone else from dishing out that much for one? Unfortunately not. Same applies to alot of things ._.

It's not to me. Not having one hasn't killed me and won't kill me. I am still very effective and get this..... I have fun!

And yes, I tend to agree with you. It's the same people who can barely pay their rent and have their tax refund check spent on a new Flat Screen before they even have the money, who will rush out and make that big purchase in-game as soon as they have the gil. For me, I have worked very hard to save it up, and I like to spend it where I will get the most mileage out of it (probably dismantling my H-Fund for other needs).

It's like when people have to have those OMG items to level, like Astral Rings. Somehow many many people level without them and are just fine. A stack of cookies will serve you almost as well (for 1k per stack).

Price fixing is one of the other downsides of free market economy.
We could always have items being traded for items like in Diablo II, or perhaps have SE make a fixed price for it.
See how they're fixing the price? Try to buy from them at that super low price, then sell it when it goes high for less than what they want to sell it for.

The current priority for whose item the AH dcides to sell is:

1) Filter out items set above price bid

2) Select the placed item to sell based on cheapest set price

3) If 2 or more items are at cheapest set price, priority is given to who placed the item first.

I'm strongly of the opinion that if 2 and 3 were switched around there'd be a lot less undercutting taking place.

Keep in mind that unlike the real economy, gil is an easier number to manage. Gil is in fact created whenever you NPC an item, kill a mob that grants gil, or complete a quest that rewards gil. It is also destroyed when you buy an item from NPCs, and pay AH fees. It flows freely between the AH minus the fees, bazaars minus the taxes in cities, and through trades. The more gil you put into circulation by doing things that create gil, the higher prices will likely get. That's why years ago when RMT was rampant stuff like a stack of silent oil went for 22k. Everytime SE bans RMT they delete that gil which means less money flowing freely, thus prices diminished.

It is actually to your benefit to have prices higher. Why? Because entrance fees for things like Dynamis, Limbus, and Einherjar are a set price, thus the more things sell for, the easier it is to participate in these events and upgrade things like relics.

This is all just speculation, of course, but I really believe myself to be right on this.

Or buying an airship pass for all your mules :)

Here's a challenge I've taken upon myself and encourage others to do:
Reduce your reliance upon the AH to buy your goods, and reduce your reliance on the AH to move your goods. Gil is easily obtainable for people who work at it, and people who Q.Q over the AH manipulations and price fluxuations are pawns to anyone who can take advantage of you, and lazy for their inability to come by Gil anywhere else. The money is slower, but unless SE decides RMT are involved in moving mass amounts of materials through NPC vendors, the Gil is also very steady. You can expect the same amount of gil for every fish, every crafted item, every drop from monsters, and not only is it instantaneous, its also competition free.

To people who make the living on the AH, I'm not attacking you, but tossing around speculation, theories, RMT names, or quotas about prices or the "SE should do's" take initiative and find others ways of beating the system. If RMT are so ruinous to your game play, cut them out.



If you take this to heart, most of your /crying will diminish if not entirely cease... of course, you can also take the other route, and become the supplier and never worry about how much something is to buy on the AH.

It amazes me how many people complain about ECONOMICS. Supply and demand and manipulation of sales is the way of the world people.

RMT suck...we all know this. So report them to the task force and move on with life. Do we really need a thousand threads about it?

and well said Kyaaadaa

Would people make these threads if the people doing this were clearly not RMT?

ABSOFREAKINGLUTELY

People are so quick to cry RMT it now makes my ears bleed when I hear it.

And why bother? If you have a name of a RMT report them. What are we going to do about it other than biotch? Nothing...

lol ppl thought I was rmt once because I was trying to camp valkurm emperor. My job was at 65 blm and my sub was hella gimped way below lvl lol and got /tells asking if i was rmt, so I said "Yea I'm RMT with a 65 blm and gimped sub job. :)"

I've been accused of RMT more times than I could count on both my hands. Just because my main source of income involves frequent use and camping of the Auction House, people scream RMT at me.

I was called RMT for camping Bune ftw >_> and for exp'ing with LS XD

I realize my only craft is cooking, but still if i were to NPC all the food i make I wouldn't really make profit off it. I can imagine other crafts "hmm lets npc this hauby because then I'll have no competition on AH, and I know what price I will get for it"

Too often it's easier to just call everything RMT than to accept that savvy players play the suckers for their own gain.

It's not RMT unless there is some real-world side to it. Just being something that someone doesn't like doesn't make it RMT. Hell, I know a guy that used to sit at the AH all day on his alt and buy up everything that could be NPC sold for more than people were selling on AH.

He was using the gil himself, not selling it, so it's not RMT. In fact, if you see someone buying like 20 Orc Piercers (old example), maybe you would ask yourself "Why would they do that? Is it something I can do also?"

NPC selling stuff really can add up to a lot more than people think. While soloing subjobs from 10-37, I often choose my camps based on what drops and what I can do with it, as much as on how crowded they are. From SMN 25-28, I made 32k (I kept track).

This is one of my favorite thread archetypes. The one where people start talking brass tacks economics, baby. Now, I will chime in with the obligatory response for this model that is lacking so far:

"I love all the talk about economics. Everyone online is either a psych professor or an econ guru!"

There. There's always that guy who chimes in to LOL at people taking it seriously as it relates to its RL counterpart. Not judging, just playfully observing mass redundancy, which I suppose makes me the token psych professor. ;)