Haste Recast Worth It?

I've seen a lot of players use "Haste" recasts on Utsusemi too save some time on the next recast. My question is..is it really worth it? Let me explain. Let's say you're fighting a real high level mob and you have your evasion gear on and while fighting your shadows go down or you want to recast. Now if you swap to haste gear (for the recast) you sacrifice a lot of evasion gear and obviously if the monster attacks during this it has a lot higher chance of hitting you (or wiping a shadow). Now if you know you could get a haste recast off then switch back to evasion gear before the mob attacks then it's obvious the haste recast is worth it. So what's your verdict? A lot higher chance of getting hit or losing a shadow with a faster recast versus a lot higher chance of evading (perhaps keeping a shadow) yet a bit longer on the recast.

Maybe I need to rephrase the question a bit.
I mean this question to be mainly for solos and/or duos. OF COURSE haste galore (march,haste,haste gear, etc.) is great for parties and destroying things real fast. I'm talking about surviving a real high level mob solo or duo. Sorry I didn't clarify earlier.

On Ninja, having the recast times of utsusemi to a minimum is perhaps the most important part of the job, especially when tanking oppositions. This alone would answer the question were it not for the various circumstances us ninjas find themselves in.



Usually, ninjas will always have haste and march on when tanking high level monsters. This means that haste can usually be sacrificed without the loss of utsusemi in exchange for evasion or damage reduction gear. Changing gear for haste would increase the chance of being hit, but I've noticed after a certain level, monsters don't seem to miss that much, no matter how much evasion you stack on.

The main danger of changing gear is that your healer or the person responsible for keeping you alive loses focus of you. This means you're not targetted because you blinked and they attempt to cure nobody; if you're getting hit, most high level monsters will chew threw your hit points in a few hits. I know some people use command lines and the like, but a lot of people do use the F# buttons followed by the macro. Changing gear would cause these players to lose their focus on you.



As I said before, the chance of being hit seems to be much higher than usual when the monster is past a certain level respective of your own; for this reason, I would vote in favour of haste or damage reduction. Another thing to remember is that nobody tanks high level monsters solo, so there will always be a co-tank to take the hate off you if you find yourself in a compromising situation. This would lessen the requirement on blink tanking and allow for more evasion or damage reduction gear.

evasion is very nice but can always get unlucky lose all shadows and the recast isnt up for utsusemi.

the only time i have ever casted utsusemi in eva gear is if my shadows were gone before i started casting utsu:ichi.

The theory is simple, lets take a HNM PLD/NIN as example "because its obliviously the best example" they need to stack as much Haste/Enmity+ gears, why? because that way the delay to recast Utsusemi & any of their spell is lesser, passing by Utsusemi to flash or even Cure, Haste will also affect your melee swing but in the case of your question it doesn't matter.

Haste in this way will just help the PLD/NIN to survive, & its clearly a great help, it will also kinda help him to keep hate by being able to pop Flash faster & heal himself faster, depending how he is playing.

Now lets take another example, the simple WAR/NIN in a Colibri Merit PT, their melee swing will be faster, which will increase their damage per seconde or DPS & will make their TP gain faster, it will help to keep up with the exp chain, & also since they are /NIN, will help with Utsusemi recast "survival".

Last example, about recast again, i was meriting in a BLM PT at Pudding camp in Zhyalom as RDM, i was refreshing them all "which is normal" but i was also giving them haste, why? because the delay to recast Aspir "Again !" is lower & guess, it does helped them a lot to keep up with MP themselve & with the chain.

So, if you ask if its really worth it, yes it is, but depending the use, in many situation its better to stack it, if you go only with a Walmart turban for Melee job you wont see a difference, but 5% haste will make a difference on the recast for any spell. If you still wonder, look at the WHM JSE equips, blessed, & think "Why there is a Bonus of Haste on a WHM Armor ? Oo"

Thats also why RDM fast cast pown so much, considering only the AF1 Hat give you a 10% speed on Cast & 5% haste on recast kind of, you must see my point ?

Any mob you're tanking that can take your shadow down before your timers are up isn't going to miss you often enough to wear evasion gear.


^Can't agree more.

If you're going to switch out any Haste gear when shadows are down, I suggest it's Physical/Magic(depends what you're fighting) damgage taken reduction gear and emnity, because truely, evasion is far too unreliable.

No, Haste is useless for Ninja and a waste of MP for the RDM and gear slots a NIN could use for evasion. Thank you for setting us straight after 7 years of us doing it wrong. In only 6 months your insight has made an invaluable contribution to the community.

May I send gil to your player's delivery box? I feel as if I and the rest of the community are forever in your debt.

Maybe I need to rephrase the question a bit.
I mean this question to be mainly for solos and/or duos. OF COURSE haste galore (march,haste,haste gear, etc.) is great for parties and destroying things real fast. I'm talking about surviving a real high level mob solo or duo. Sorry I didn't clarify earlier.

No need to bite his head off. S/he is clearly new to endgame tanking and has posted because s/he doesn't know whats best to use. Hence the question. Yes it's obvious for us who have played and tanked as NIN on anything harder than Robber Crabs but theres no need for the childish remarks.

Try contributing and helping them with useful information instead of thrusting a knife up their arse.

Some high level NMs are good to tank in evasion gear; Charybdis for example. Others may have much better accuracy and you may be better off with other situational equipment such as magic damage reduction. All mobs vary, read up on them before deciding which gear to use and remember: Everything is situational.

Wow, god forbid somebody ask a question around here. The quality and etiquette of the average poster has really gone to ***around here, it seems.

Anyways, I'd imagine that it's worth it to cast in haste gear because, with Ni, you would probably only lose out on one shadow whereas if you can cut the recast in half you can ultimately use more shadows. Or something of that sort.

you can send the gil to my d-box :D

Edit: I'll even make a mule on Odin for it lol

The poster on top, did not need to be so critical... Belllie is obviously not familiar with this matter. Just show her/him another perspective instead of internet sarcasm.

I have been playing the Ninja job for quite some time now. I have tanked every monster in the game besides AV and PW (no point if we cannot survive Meteor, PW because we do not have enough BLUs).

Adding evasion gear will help if the monster's level is near your's. However, as others have noted already, many monsters that are much higher than you, tend to not miss (even with evasion gear).

Belllie's question still can bring something to the table that most people here have overlooked.

For example, while casting Utsusemi: Ichi, I noticed that most people leave on a TP body piece. Since Ichi casting is really slow, against same or lower level monsters, I find it helpful to wear evasion gear while casting Ichi.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item_sets.php?id=54050

Against higher level monsters you could wear spell interruption down and/or physical damage down while casting Ichi, since they barely miss (might as well get hit for less and allow the other tank to take hate, or gamble on no interruption).

Likewise, this analogy can apply to Ni, except Haste should be a priority over evasion since the recast timer is 50% greater while the cast time is much lower than Ichi.

To sum it up, if you are a Ninja 75 (plus merits), you can evade many attacks from most monsters up to level 85 with evasion gear. Macroing in evasion gear for Ichi (in case of recast not being up, bad luck on double attacks, or evadable AOEs) is a good idea for this range. Likewise for Ni, macro in Haste on all applicable slots then evasion gear elsewhere (in case of bad luck on double attacks or evadable AOEs).

P.S. I have tried macroing Ninjutsu skill for places without Haste, and have not found it noticeably helpful at losing less shadows on physical AOE attacks.

I'm seriously wondering what the black dragon will have to say in response...

<3 Rdm's who used to do this when i still exp'd in a party at puddings. Wooooodum i guess covered everything yet again, i think it does come down to choices on individual pieces and the blink thing. Myself, ive been considering using my 2/2 af+1 mnk mats for +1 feet 10eva to go with loq earring during ichi cast for salvage tanking over usukane feet + mermans earring. Even then im blinking to gain 10 eva and -2% cast time over 2 haste and some MDB, seems a bit meh.

LOLMalekith

Enter <stpt> and <stal> they do not target the player directly but target their name in the party/alliance list. Blinking SHOULD no longer be an issue. People who have a habbit of using the Fkeys should break the habbit and learn these macro commands.

Blinking breaks main and sub target, the only way around it so to be quick with your targeting.

using <stpt> and <stal> you will never lose target from them blinking.

as for the OPs question. i play whm/nin constantly, soloing campaign mobs among other moderately tough mobs. the only way i am able to survive is by having as much haste gear on while casting utsusemi, as my shadow recast timers are usually both going at the same time. all though it takes me FOREVER to kill anything due to me constantly casting shadows, haste is the reason im able to survive.

Your casting utsusemi.... meaning your on your last shadow or outta shadows.

Haste > Evasion for casting shadows.

haste doesn't have as big of an effect on casting times as it does on recast times. haste is 20% increase in speed. so of course something that takes 4secs to cast isn't gonna make as big of a difference as a 1min recast time. utsusemi Ni recast time is 45 seconds. with haste it goes down to around 35 seconds, a huge and very helpful difference. it has like a 2 second casting time and 20% of 2 seconds is not a vast difference. haste is all about doing more dmg and cutting down recast times. who cares if you cut off .25 seconds of a cast...
and yes, haste gear > most any gear. i'm sure some of you have seen haste ninjas... youtube it if you haven't

Haste has no effect on casting time.

Cast in evasion gear, switch to Haste gear right before the spell goes off. Time your casting so the monster's attack would land in the middle of Ichi, eliminating the chance of it attacking for that split second while you're switched to full Haste.

Wow, what a {Bio}tch.

The only NM i can think of where I'd still use full evasion gear would be charybdis based on his unique attack pattern.

For any NM's in low man groups its very useful to sub dancer so the TP gain from haste gear and ability to cure yourself with that TP can arguably outweigh the need for evasion gear.

Haste is basically suitable for all of those DD jobs, but I would't say NIN, it get hates when their shadows are out.

At the very least, macro in Haste gear for Utsusemi: Ni. It's very hard to get interrupted casting that, and with such a long recast time each % of Haste is valuable.

Utsusemi: Ichi, situational. If you are casting it from 0 shadows, probably best to do it in full evasion. If you are going 1 => 3 shadows, can safely get away with haste gear.

Haste is PURELY 100% recast. Fast Cast affects both casting speed and recast, which is why some NINs like the Loquacious Earring (2% FC).

As a Thf, doing mainly solo and deo parties, this is what i do. For utsusemi ni, you will be able to put haste gear on and cast without being hit. Before its done casting to 100% put evasion gear back on. The recast timer wont be affected and the mobs next swing should miss. If you take your time you jepordize a shadow. For ichi, i keep evasion gear on because its casting time is too slow and id rather take the chance of not being it. By the time ichi shadows are gone Ni should be up. Some well timed ichi's are possible to get off after one mobs swing and before its next. In this case put the haste gear on. I hope that helps.

When I'm on RDM/NIN...Screw Evasion lol.

There is no real answer to his/her question, The one i would lean to would be Haste> all, That is right whats the point of "Save a Shadow" when you are reacsting them? pretty simple eh?, getting hit would not get you kill if you have a good group with you, That is for group events/merits, so no point on evasion. The fact that that most NM's or Hight level Mobs will not miss is a fact,I can recall someone from my server who called him self"Saint patron of Evasion" who got wacked after lossing all 6 shadows with nothing but the best evasion gear you could get for a THF. So evasion is only good if you soloing x-level of mobs below you. DMG -% gear is good when you don't need to hit with your katanas(NIN onry) and you can mix it with ENM+ gear. Again if you soloing most likely you wont have anyone to cast Haste on your -->Soloing<-- means solo, no haste, no cure, no back up.

So based on the times i grinded soloing yes EVasion will help but i will never beat Haste. This is a Tip for all new healers to merit pts : Haste on top of cures when your tank has yellow hp. NIN with haste = 24 Sec recast instead of 30ish , have to cure less, mob dies faster, everyone is happy :P

Another fact someone alrady mentioned here: Haste only affect your recast timers, not your casting time (fast cast does that, and NIN has none)

A Haste addcit

The usefulness of haste also depends on the amount you can get, i'm saying that i don't regularly use evasion gear at all anymore but my haste gear is at 23%, if i only had around 12-15% then a combination of evasion and haste would help my survivability ~