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Ochain
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2011-03-07 18:08:10
Gilgamesh.Thedreamer said: Just wait Se make an expanssion with new zones out of abyssea and their boost, and plps will remember WAR and MNK have NOT 3-4k life outside and die like ***...
And they'll remember pld is the only job who can tank (reals)Hnms.
Name a HNM that only pld can tank.
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 Fenrir.Rinnsi
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 773
By Fenrir.Rinnsi 2011-03-07 18:10:08
Byakko! :D
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 525
By Asura.Leonlionheart 2011-03-07 18:13:03
PLD is a great tank when everyone else is zombying and you need one person to stay alive to keep claim.
Why you are in that situation is probably because you are using a PLD.
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 Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-07 18:13:08
Actually the attack rate isn't really all that much faster.
Almace is 224. Kannagi/kamome with +10% DW is effectively delay of 215. Vere mnk is 331. Dnc has so many things it can play around with hard to tell between lots of different good dagger combos, varying DW amounts, haste samba etc
It's just those other jobs are getting garunteed at least 2 swings each attack round
Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-07 18:13:29
Fenrir.Rinnsi said: Byakko! :D Nin could evasion tank it at 75
Caitsith.Mahayaya
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3341
By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2011-03-07 18:14:27
Asura.Leonlionheart said: PLD is a great tank when everyone else is zombying and you need one person to stay alive to keep claim.
Why you are in that situation is probably because you are using a PLD.
lol
 Cerberus.Kvazz
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5345
By Cerberus.Kvazz 2011-03-07 18:14:39
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Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-07 18:18:45
Too bad all those hates spells suck now. Would nee alot more TA action. But god could do some fun things in abyssea with all the refresh avaialable. Survivibility would be thru the roof
Cerberus.Kvazz
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5345
By Cerberus.Kvazz 2011-03-07 18:21:18
Yeah lol
Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-07 18:21:50
Well for 5 min out of every 10 anyways
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4554
By Bahamut.Raenryong 2011-03-07 18:22:30
Cor Random Deal rotation!
Cerberus.Kvazz
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5345
By Cerberus.Kvazz 2011-03-07 18:30:58
Bahamut.Raenryong said: Cor Random Deal rotation!
BLM would never die with 2 refresh atmas and rdm + brd + whm and infinite cors!
Maybe have lots of WHMs for devotion rotation too?
Just make the blm bloodtank everything >=)
 Fenrir.Ilax
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 466
By Fenrir.Ilax 2011-03-07 18:31:09
Fenrir.Gradd said: Even with Ochain PLD is still the most useless job in the entire Game.
Counter and considerably higher Damage is what Makes MNK the powerful Tank that it is right now, not to mention Penance inhibits the mobs TP gain.
SE needs to do something to PLD, and trust me when I say Ochain isnt it.
For now is maybe true (DD wise, Hate wise) If SE adjust the hate problem in abyssea, all pseudo tank like mnk, nin, thf will back look LOL. Mnk still take way more dmg then PLD, but at least mnk can keep hate, something that PLD fail sadly.
I would use PLD for sure way before LOL-MNK on Apademak and Azdaja if the hate system was not *** up as it is a the moment, so is for Omega, Orthrus, Dragua and so on. Don't need to tell me you guy are able do these NM with mnk, because our ls 'Twilight' are already able to fight these with me as THF main tank, and i also saw Bluemage as main tank. Just i think these fight would be more fun with a PLD on it that not require WHM to cure bomb, and would be fun to have our DD actually dmg NM without having to TANK.
But ya, for now is just broken...
Caitsith.Azryel
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23
By Caitsith.Azryel 2011-03-07 18:37:05
Just give PLD Provoke... Problem solved.
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サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2328
By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2011-03-07 18:39:03
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Cerberus.Kvazz
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5345
By Cerberus.Kvazz 2011-03-07 18:42:17
Caitsith.Azryel said: Just give PLD Provoke... Problem solved.
How would that fix anything at the current state of the game? lol
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-03-07 18:43:30
The hate system has been broken for years. Abyssea only changed how fast DDs cap, not the fact that they're the best hate generators around.
Also
Quote: Mnk still take way more dmg then PLD lolwat? Counter and evasion completely mitigate damage, shield procs do not.
By Azryel 2011-03-07 18:45:04
Wasn't the discussion pertaining to PLD not being able to hold hate over DD jobs? Provoke/Flash combo with your enmity gear should help close the gap... I mean they gave THF Dual Wield at 83, so why not give PLD Provoke at or before 99? Lol :)
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-03-07 18:45:40
Azryel said: Wasn't the discussion pertaining to PLD not being able to hold hate over DD jobs? Provoke/Flash combo with your enmity gear should help close the gap... I mean they gave THF Dual Wield at 83, so why not give PLD Provoke at or before 99? Lol :) itt: hate doesn't cap
Cerberus.Kvazz
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5345
By Cerberus.Kvazz 2011-03-07 18:46:42
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: The hate system has been broken for years. Abyssea only changed how fast DDs cap, not the fact that they're the best hate generators around.
Also
Quote: Mnk still take way more dmg then PLD lolwat? Counter and evasion completely mitigate damage, shield procs do not.
So long since people actually were allowed to play on PLD, so they've just forgotten that they can't fulltime Sentinel and Invincible.
Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2011-03-07 18:47:43
Cerberus.Kvazz said: Bahamut.Raenryong said: Cor Random Deal rotation! BLM would never die with 2 refresh atmas and rdm + brd + whm and infinite cors!
Maybe have lots of WHMs for devotion rotation too?
Just make the blm bloodtank everything >=) Meh wouldn't need that much if you subbed nin. Only blood tank while shadows down. But be able to recast ichi whenever you want and you can't be interupted.
Then get a couple of blu/thfs to place hate and take off HUGE chunks of the mobs hp without having to melee on anything!
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2328
By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2011-03-07 18:49:15
Azryel said: Wasn't the discussion pertaining to PLD not being able to hold hate over DD jobs? Provoke/Flash combo with your enmity gear should help close the gap... I mean they gave THF Dual Wield at 83, so why not give PLD Provoke at or before 99? Lol :)
PLD can cap Hate too, that's not the problem, nor is other jobs capping it faster. I can cap hate on PLD, and it's going to spin like a top the same way it would with two melees on it, I'll just be doing 1/4 of the damage.
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Cerberus.Kvazz
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5345
By Cerberus.Kvazz 2011-03-07 18:49:46
Bahamut.Dasva said: Cerberus.Kvazz said: Bahamut.Raenryong said: Cor Random Deal rotation! BLM would never die with 2 refresh atmas and rdm + brd + whm and infinite cors!
Maybe have lots of WHMs for devotion rotation too?
Just make the blm bloodtank everything >=) Meh wouldn't need that much if you subbed nin. Only blood tank while shadows down. But be able to recast ichi whenever you want and you can't be interupted.
Then get a couple of blu/thfs to place hate and take off HUGE chunks of the mobs hp without having to melee on anything!
Pft, why /nin when you can make a whole alliance assist you in bloodtanking! If you'r gonna do something inefficient, why not do it as inefficient as possible :p
But well, if we get group3 merits that allow us to lower manawall recast, it could actually be kinda interesting xD
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 525
By Asura.Leonlionheart 2011-03-07 18:52:37
The reason PLD can't tank is because of the way enmity, aggression, whatever you want to call it, is done in this game.
I assume they can't change this because it's such an old game and its probably very difficult to script because it's such a foundation on how the game has been played for the last 7 years.
AoE Cover, an ability that gets the enemy to target you no matter what for a set amount of time, the ability to take other's enmity (like accomplice) are all ways around the problem. However they all take away something from the fun of PLD, which is, or was for a lot of people, keeping hate from DDs through your own means.
I don't know how they will fix it. But going all out on WAR without worrying about dying sounds nice.
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サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2328
By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2011-03-07 18:54:34
Asura.Leonlionheart said: The reason PLD can't tank is because of the way enmity, aggression, whatever you want to call it, is done in this game.
Again, keeping Hate isn't the issue.
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By Leonlionheart 2011-03-07 18:55:01
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Asura.Leonlionheart said: The reason PLD can't tank is because of the way enmity, aggression, whatever you want to call it, is done in this game.
Again, keeping Hate isn't the issue.
Never had a paladin keep hate off my MNK, BLU, or WAR.
Caitsith.Azryel
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23
By Caitsith.Azryel 2011-03-07 18:55:05
An enmity stealing ability would be nice... With a lower recast time than THF's... I could see something like that being beneficial- having a DD go all out on something, then just taking his enmity... That's a really good idea, Leon, and I hope SE thinks of it too.
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2328
By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2011-03-07 18:56:42
Leonlionheart said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Asura.Leonlionheart said: The reason PLD can't tank is because of the way enmity, aggression, whatever you want to call it, is done in this game.
Again, keeping Hate isn't the issue.
Never had a paladin keep hate off my MNK, BLU, or WAR.
Then bad PLDs, cause enmity caps
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サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-03-07 18:56:53
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Asura.Leonlionheart said: The reason PLD can't tank is because of the way enmity, aggression, whatever you want to call it, is done in this game.
Again, keeping Hate isn't the issue.
Eh, hate mechanics are sort of an issue since DDs can effortlessly maintain hate over healers. The damage mitigation available to DD jobs is definitely the bigger issue though.
By Leonlionheart 2011-03-07 18:58:53
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Leonlionheart said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Asura.Leonlionheart said: The reason PLD can't tank is because of the way enmity, aggression, whatever you want to call it, is done in this game.
Again, keeping Hate isn't the issue.
Never had a paladin keep hate off my MNK, BLU, or WAR.
Then bad PLDs, cause enmity caps
Caps, for everyone. Then it turns from the PLD to someone else with capped hate and bounces around.
Is this shield enough to get PLD back on track with tanking? I know it has 90% block rate, 25% damage converted to MP etc, but is it really worth it?
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