90-99, Whats Going To Be Next?

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2010-06-21
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90-99, Whats Going to be next?
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-01-15 02:05:05  
Obsoleting all the old content was the only viable option left to SE. It reflected a grind-oriented mentality that has for the most part been phased out of MMOs. The new mentality, a mentality that Abyssea embraces, is one of measurable progress. Gone is the era of 0.1% increases, and good *** riddance. Completely retooling old content wouldn't sustain subscribers in the way completely new content would since many have everything they want from said content and completely fresh systems always have a bit more appeal, at least at the outset. I don't think they'll obsolete Abyssea gear anytime soon, but I don't see old content making a comeback and I don't particularly care. Small bonuses like Dyna/Salvage droprates are all well and good but incentives should, for the most part, be directed towards new content. What small reasons we have to go back are enough.
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 Caitsith.Surge
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By Caitsith.Surge 2011-01-15 02:35:37  
Asura.Kaitaru said:
I'd say adding the whole synthetic atmas for doing old stuffs was a good idea but id say that's as far as you go. I feel like i kinda missed out on endgame myself because I never had a job with a consistent schedule so all i got to do on my previous account was level jobs. For ppl like me I wouldnt mind going back and checking these events out, im sure some of the gear is worth going back to get (mostly accessories such as the +7 skill necks from jailers unless there is something better.) Id say farming dynamis relics/mythics is good enough of old endgame to make it worth keeping around thanks to the ToTM. I honestly dont see a reason outside of these events other than the atma's. So honestly for those that didnt get to do the endgame get to experience it with less ppl and get these atmas are enough as far as im concerned. On the other hand, I really just hope that endgame does go outside of Abbysea but as far as im concerned the atmas are what makes me think this isnt going to happen. I'm not saying abyssea is bad its just it like something more than rehashed old zones in the past with a different colored sky/mobs. I think SE made a smart move with abbysea and would like to still see it become successful but adding some HNMs and some MEGABOSSES!!!! Wouldnt necessarily be a step in the wrong direction since there are plenty of other things to do :/

I agree, though if you grind in a single area for too long it does get a little boring, i was expecting a dyna zone ish area for aht urgan and im still hoping for one too unless thats what einherjar is then maybe they should make a T2 one?

Having ToM for the 75 gear in sky/sea limbus would be awesome to have, like the random items that didnt need alot (Like the extra seals that you get from sky) or hell the pop items used for them would be nice, gets people farming in old content and ppl fighting bosses. I would like to see a ToM that says "Kill Kirin x40" and then they would give you a great item or something like that oh if not ToM add it to FoV now that would be exciting... Sorry really bad rant there >.>
 Caitsith.Lyall
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By Caitsith.Lyall 2011-01-15 02:46:34  
I'll say again: Making people go back and grind old content just because they attached it to a Trial is not fun. No one wants to kill Byakko 30 times. No one even wants to collect 30 Byakko pop sets. It won't add anything to the game and would appear lazy on behalf of the Devs to basically just toss us an "Expansion" that is "Now go kill dead content for your next shiny, I can't be assed to come up with anything new."

Fifty Kirin kills wouldn't be impressive, it'd be boring and a formality to people overleveled and able to crush him with ease. The prices of pop items would skyrocket for a bit and that would be the only thing to come of it, outside of some likely botclaiming lottery pops. Hooray.
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 Ramuh.Lilsanchez
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By Ramuh.Lilsanchez 2011-01-15 02:50:38  
Well when it really comes down to it, all you can really do is 4 simple words.


"Just wait and see."

One can only hope a whole new horizon full of new events and endgame awaits us once we reach that new dominate level cap.
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 Caitsith.Surge
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By Caitsith.Surge 2011-01-15 02:59:23  
Ramuh.Lilsanchez said:
Well when it really comes down to it, all you can really do is 4 simple words. "Just wait and see." One can only hope a whole new horizon full of new events and endgame awaits us once we reach that new dominate level cap.

Yeah i hope its really fun ^^

Caitsith.Lyall said:
I'll say again: Making people go back and grind old content just because they attached it to a Trial is not fun. No one wants to kill Byakko 30 times. No one even wants to collect 30 Byakko pop sets. It won't add anything to the game and would appear lazy on behalf of the Devs to basically just toss us an "Expansion" that is "Now go kill dead content for your next shiny, I can't be assed to come up with anything new." Fifty Kirin kills wouldn't be impressive, it'd be boring and a formality to people overleveled and able to crush him with ease. The prices of pop items would skyrocket for a bit and that would be the only thing to come of it, outside of some likely botclaiming lottery pops. Hooray.

I dont know if doing ToM would be a bad thing, and killing 50 kirins would be impressive at least to me i have only killed him once and it took us a bit to do it but this was also @ 75. Now calling the dev's lazy thats another story but i think they have put alot of work into what we have so far.
 Caitsith.Lyall
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By Caitsith.Lyall 2011-01-15 03:03:31  
A lot of creativity into what we have now? Absolutely. Rehashing that into "Now clear Dynamis X times, Kirin Y times and Limbus Z times" isn't creating anything new, it's warmed up leftovers.
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 Caitsith.Surge
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By Caitsith.Surge 2011-01-15 03:43:34  
Caitsith.Lyall said:
A lot of creativity into what we have now? Absolutely. Rehashing that into "Now clear Dynamis X times, Kirin Y times and Limbus Z times" isn't creating anything new, it's warmed up leftovers.

Yeah imma have to agree there
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 Bahamut.Leonelf
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By Bahamut.Leonelf 2011-01-15 03:55:27  
People who complain about Abyssea are the ones that can't do ***on their own and have to rely on 17 other people to kill stuff and that's why you say Abyssea is easy.
Abyssea was the best idea SE has ever had for this game it gives TONs of Notorious Monsters with varieties of strategies on each one and it makes the NMs hard enough for smaller groups of 3~6 people. It really takes months if you focus on a job and gear them up completely from abyssea gears.
The game is so enjoyable now without having to join an "endgame linkshell" and try to schedule your life around "game events" everynight. So my suggestion to you is put your real life in priority first, do things on your own, read Wiki on NMs plan strats gather friends to have fun, and stop having a dead brain coming to events with 17 other people and complain about how boring it is. Oh, and please don't ws kill ^^b
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 Asura.Alexstaifter
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By Asura.Alexstaifter 2011-01-15 04:03:19  
Caitsith.Jessie said:
I'm hoping once Lv.99 is here and in place, Square-Enix is going to take a step back from all their hard work giving us tons of new and cool things and think of ways to:
A, re-balance the game, giving every job an equal opportunity
B, revitalize the old endgame stuff; maybe give us Trials for relic armor, Salvage gear, and whatever else.
C, revitalize the old pregame stuff; believe it or not, I actually kind of miss leveling in the Dunes.
D, seriously (I mean "seriously") consider dropping PS2 and maybe 360 support to breathe some fresher graphics, user interface controls, and all the stuff that we'd have if not for "PS2 limitations". More character-creation options and whatnot too. (I'm not really biased against PS2 either, since I've used that all the way from when I started 7'ish years ago until actually quite recently)

As for between Lv.90~Lv.99, I think we are going to see a lot more of what we've been getting: new challenges, new armor, new customization, etc.


A) This game is Focused on PvE, the concept of balancing your refering to is something that would lean towards more of a PvP focused game. And they already claimed they are hard at work to make sure each job keeps it unique style (so just subbing rdm wont rep it at higher lvs, and so on) So no way they gonna "balance" the game.

B)They want people to spend money on the Abyssea Add ons or anything else they add into the game, so why put an element where you can take old school equipment to a new endgame par?

C)I sorta agree with you here, I think they should partly fix the issue with partying at the lower level range, maybe something a bit more of an adjust (Like changing the min. lvl requirement to enter Abyssea to 50, instead of 30) (I only say this because saying at 70+ would discourage people from buying it (depending on their point view of course)


D)Gotta love ported system complaints. you get the benefit from the original than wanna push the original away.

A few points If you want it to look better, and so on, go play FFXIV, dont sit here asking to freshing up a dated game appearence wise, and this being a Console Based MMO, from 2001. they did all that you just listed, its called 14. If you dont like 14's gameplay than accept the uglier, but more solid FFXI (though i think FF11 is fine as it is, looks wise)
 Phoenix.Salmijr
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By Phoenix.Salmijr 2011-01-15 04:55:19  
Next update, anyone wearing 5/5 af3 nq will auto dc and not be able to log on for 5 days.
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 Ragnarok.Afania
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By Ragnarok.Afania 2011-01-15 04:56:53  
Asura.Alexstaifter said:


A) This game is Focused on PvE, the concept of balancing your refering to is something that would lean towards more of a PvP focused game. And they already claimed they are hard at work to make sure each job keeps it unique style (so just subbing rdm wont rep it at higher lvs, and so on) So no way they gonna "balance" the game.


What's wrong with balancing jobs in PvE content?
Ppl with right job grind gears 3 times more efficient than ppl with wrong jobs. For ppl who has no MNK, no NIN, no BLM, no THF, no WAR or no WHM, they may ended up having to find extra hands for proc when trying to grind KI, seal or gears. And they may ended up killing slower or less drops, thus lower the efficiency. Keep each job's unique style has nothing to do with job balance. Who'd like to play a job(no matter how much you like that job)that can't do things as efficient as other jobs?

You sound like PvE focus MMORPG has no competitive element, but that's not true. FFXI players compete in gear, when ppl with right jobs grind gear fast and efficient, they'll ended up having better gear than ppl with wrong job, who'd have to spend more time getting extra help, or fight NM more times for KI/seal/gear drop.

 Caitsith.Neonracer
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By Caitsith.Neonracer 2011-01-15 05:20:32  
It will finally be finished and it will be just as it is a game from

lvls 1-100 and play the game as it is. Enjoy it, Love it, or Lump it.

Its what it is.
 Asura.Alexstaifter
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By Asura.Alexstaifter 2011-01-15 05:25:56  
Ragnarok.Afania said:
Asura.Alexstaifter said:


A) This game is Focused on PvE, the concept of balancing your refering to is something that would lean towards more of a PvP focused game. And they already claimed they are hard at work to make sure each job keeps it unique style (so just subbing rdm wont rep it at higher lvs, and so on) So no way they gonna "balance" the game.


What's wrong with balancing jobs in PvE content?
Ppl with right job grind gears 3 times more efficient than ppl with wrong jobs. For ppl who has no MNK, no NIN, no BLM, no THF, no WAR or no WHM, they may ended up having to find extra hands for proc when trying to grind KI, seal or gears. And they may ended up killing slower or less drops, thus lower the efficiency. Keep each job's unique style has nothing to do with job balance. Who'd like to play a job(no matter how much you like that job)that can't do things as efficient as other jobs?

You sound like PvE focus MMORPG has no competitive element, but that's not true. FFXI players compete in gear, when ppl with right jobs grind gear fast and efficient, they'll ended up having better gear than ppl with wrong job, who'd have to spend more time getting extra help, or fight NM more times for KI/seal/gear drop.





You might not fully understand the concept of unique.

It has everything to do with the concept of balance.

Things can not be balanced, yet widely different from each other.

An example would be DRK and SAM. In general both jobs are DDs, they both can deal large damage, but are unique in their styles. DRK focus purely on attack power (based on it's job abilities) While SAM focuses on quickly gaining TP to unleash it's WS.

How would you go about balancing the two, SAM has a build (With Third Eye and Seigan for example) to allow itself protection from attacks) While DRK has no abilities to protect itself from attacks, even quite opposite, has abilities that bring greater risk from attacks and damage (Via, Last Resort, Soul Eater). Even if you find a way to give DRK more protection for itself or to gain more tp quickly or to give SAM abilities to gain a massive boost to attack and (Balance) the jobs, what would be unique about them? What would make each job stand out? (The Answer, nothing, they would lose their Unique standing)


I could try to nip pick each job, but the general point Im making is that to allow jobs to be balanced, you have to allow all jobs the same abilities (in general) or where that jobs aspects wont effect usage in most or all aspects of the game.


And just to make this point even clearer the Definition of Unique


u·nique (y-nk)
adj.
1. Being the only one of its kind: "the unique existing example of Donne's handwriting."
2. Without an equal or equivalent; unparalleled.
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 Lakshmi.Aequis
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By Lakshmi.Aequis 2011-01-15 05:28:44  
The problem with older areas is that they effectively belong to the "bygone era" of FFXI, when people thought Lv.75 was the top of the game and long-term goals were set. Some of these areas and events are still a challenge to some people and job-sets, but there's no real incentive to do them anymore. Goals are short-term now; Abyssea is quick with the right jobs, skills and ambitions.

What SE traditionally does with these "old things" is try to tie them into new content. Like the Pankration photos found themselves embedded in Abyssea quests or the job-emote ToM require us to go find old sub-job or quest items (I'm pretty sure they lowered drop rate on some of these to make the endeavour last longer).

We're too used to having atma and abyssites and seem to, in general, shun any content that doesn't have them lately. So I would be surprised if SE pulled away from this and tried to re-focus us back onto old content that we've already outgrown. They've given us too much power in that alternative Vana'diel so we don't really want to relinquish it, we don't want to go back to our own world...
 
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-01-15 15:45:00  
Atmas have nothing to do with shunning old content. Outdated old content and new content that focuses on measurable progress and significant upgrades is why old content is mostly dead.
 Siren.Snowe
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By Siren.Snowe 2011-01-15 15:46:52  
Super Chocobos! Chocobos that can be summoned by a summoner that fly across the map and nuke the enemy!
 
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 Asura.Alexstaifter
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By Asura.Alexstaifter 2011-01-15 16:15:57  
Asura.Kaitaru said:
What Aeguis said was pretty much spot on as far as where the game in general stands. The whole idea of Atma based areas outside of Abyssea is possible but if this is the case Im hoping we can get some new zones. Some can argue about gear and job balance but with the level cap being raised, the options on subs fill all the spots for classes that needed them. Hence DRK could sub SAM and have protection abilties + faster TP gain which makes the arguement a few posts up a wasted effort.

Id like to see an expansion, as i mentioned before rather than "packs". I feel that abyssea is great for the reasons It remains challenging for smaller man parties. Just like some have mentioned, they have limited schedules, but with some good RL/In Game friends you can get on for short periods and still get things done. Streamlining the content was the point of Abyssea and theres no shame in enjoying it. I just feel this is the beginning of something big which is why it doesnt bother me when i think of old endgame as a moot point.

I do feel that old endgame can still be useful rather than shunning it outside of relics/mythics. God forbid there were those that actually enjoyed those evening assualt runs and nyzul climbs and even those salvage runs with their buds. The way SE made content work without raising the level cap was making gear more customizable and hybrid (like pup being a deeply gimped melee dd yet they got access to the salvage set and this all changed for them) which is why I wish SE would do this:

1)Make all the old endgame sets combineable with the later 75 sets.
IE: Grab Nyzule or Sky pieces and combine with a Salvage Piece through something like Synergy and have some mats needed for the fusing as point purchases from ein/assault currency or some other form of old currency to create a Aug Piece. Have it retain some characteristics of the two pieces with 2-3 augment or evo slots and make evo's drops from the old endgame or as point purchases. Maybe make some evo's and currency purchased mats rare so they can be sold to those who dont wish to grind old endgame and bam! you got some sweet new gear. Creating ToM for these pieces would be a moot point which is why i would love a system like this instead.

2) Instead of scaling this gear on whether its better or weaker than the AF3/90-99 gear make it's purpose customizable as gear thats situational or that piece for the certain stats you need at that situation. This prevents old endgame from being obsolete while creating a depth of gear creation thats suitable to those that dont mind coming back for something different or those that need some incentive that weren't able to do the events orininally.

3) Make achievements. I know this will anger some and ill get the "go back to wow or lol xbox epeen score hurr durr" but thats not what i mean, i mean just like we have achievement and point spreads on the completion of things on FFXIAH why not have some areas for complete armor sets or ToM trials? Thats plenty of incentive for me to climb nyzule and complete the mage/dd set and have it viewable on my char here. I know there are plenty of completionist players out there that feel the same way. For those worried about clutter in MH, have these sets storeable just like old AF sets. I think it would be cool in the armor sets section to actual see all the completed sets you have and to have points give for all these.


First off, Hey Kaitaru, didnt notice it was you making this thread. Your quiet in the LS so hard to spot you online.

1/2) That would be interesting, though in the end, the effects or abilities of said equipment should be at par or different but still useful from AF3 that people can decide which they want (not like how it was before that AF2 from Dynamis was good, but Salvage armor is better, so they want that more than AF2).


3) I sorta see where you coming from, an interesting idea to put that is like how they have Manquinn, where you can put your armor on it for display, instead you can go to a special Moogle place where you have your various "achievements" on display, certain armors on manquinns, certain statues/Models of strong bosses you defeated, display of certain understanding crafts made, etc. It would be similiar to how you can display in your Moogle House but you cant like customize the room itself, its just a special place where they display everything for you and have a book that displays all your stats (just like how on the Anniversey time, they tell you your kills, deaths, and other stats)
 Valefor.Whitetiger
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By Valefor.Whitetiger 2011-01-15 16:27:47  
Here is what My Predictions are:
(1)Final Artifact.
Equipment that requires 3 main things:
Artifact1+1
Artifact2+1
Artifact3+2
And it will create the ultiamte piece of the game. We shall call this, Relic Gears. With this, Limbus will be revived because people will want AF+1. Dynamis-Tavnazia will be played more often aswell to try to get the -1 bodies and legs of specific jobs. Abyssea will remain the same, people will try to get the best AF3 they can possibly get from this.

(2)Adjusting the Look of Artifact Equipment(Unlikely but would be cool)
People who acquire equipment of the artifact series can adjust the look of their equipment by either adjusting the color, original shape, and possibly adding pieces to it. Example...(one of the ugliest pieces of AF in the history of the game)

WAR AF1 Body.
Upper- Add spiked shoulder pads
Middle- Cuirass plated ab cover
Chest- New designs
Color1- Gold
Color2- Red

(3)Trial of Magian Weapons Into Relic like forms.
After getting the kills required to get the final forms of Magian weapons. I'm predicting that each weapon series will be required to have acquired multiple very difficult kills such as Pandemoniom Warden x10, Absolute Virtue x10, Cerberus x5, etc etc. Example.

Sekka+2>(New Weapon, Sekka+3?)
Requirement Kill 15 Hydra's, 15 Cerberus's, and 15 Khimera's(spelling mistake)

Sekka+3>(Relic Form)
Requirement Absolute Virtue x20, Pandemonium Warden x20, Abyssea Zone Bosses x200



I consider myself a creative person and would like to see this in the game, but it's more likely than not, not going to happen.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-01-15 16:37:27  
They already implemented #3, it's called Empyrean Weapons. The non-NM paths are just that, a progression designed with those who don't want to kill NMs for their weapons in mind. Nevermind the fact that they're better for mages since SE has some bizarre obsession with useless mage uberweapons.
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By Cerberus.Kvazz 2011-01-15 16:50:50  
Fenrir.Nightfyre said:
They already implemented #3, it's called Empyrean Weapons. The non-NM paths are just that, a progression designed with those who don't want to kill NMs for their weapons in mind. Nevermind the fact that they're better for mages since SE has some bizarre obsession with useless mage uberweapons.

WAIT, ARE YOU SAYING BLM RELIC ETC IS USELESS? YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS GAME!
 
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 Asura.Alexstaifter
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By Asura.Alexstaifter 2011-01-15 18:00:17  
Im the only sackholder at the moment til Kiri comes back, so just let me know
 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2011-01-15 18:04:17  
It will probably be something like Abyssea, that uses atma, because making people play without atma will cause WAY too much rage for XI to handle.

But most likely it will be one end-game event that will get boring like Abyssea did.
 Leviathan.Raborn
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By Leviathan.Raborn 2011-01-15 18:28:47  
At this point its safe to assume that SE will base the new material on achievements of the old material or at least force people back into something of the such.

Like how beating Missions in the game gained small significance in Abyssea. Some Atmas being nice, while others being mediocre.

And how the Magians are requiring relic users to re-enter dynamis and conquer old demons.

As far as challenging goes, I'm not certain how SE can bring back the spice that was when the game was first released, too many people know too much about the jobs and at this point any monster can be easily beaten using assorted set ups or item combinations.

It would be lovely to see an old foe revitalized and perhaps shown in "Ultimate form". Like in all final fantasies the main boss has almost 3 forms, and if not close to or more. This game's main foe standing out to me as the Shadow Lord, though he does have 3(?) forms in the game already.

Perhaps the ultimate insult being an Ally such as Prische turning evil, who then teams up with other HNM status bosses. And yourself teaming up with old faces and allies like Gilgamesh, Lion, Maat, Aldo, etc in a climactic battle to end all battles.

/monkeydance
 Phoenix.Ingraham
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By Phoenix.Ingraham 2011-01-15 18:39:02  
Leviathan.Raborn said:


It would be lovely to see an old foe revitalized and perhaps shown in "Ultimate form". Like in all final fantasies the main boss has almost 3 forms, and if not close to or more. This game's main foe standing out to me as the Shadow Lord, though he does have 3(?) forms in the game already.

Perhaps the ultimate insult being an Ally such as Prische turning evil, who then teams up with other HNM status bosses. And yourself teaming up with old faces and allies like Gilgamesh, Lion, Maat, Aldo, etc in a climactic battle to end all battles.

/monkeydance


Really though, would be a bummer if the inevitable ToAU/WotG crossover epilogue quest is gonna be the last piece of story for a while.


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