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Time travel
Fairy.Spence
サーバ: Fairy
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By Fairy.Spence 2010-12-29 13:43:27
Phoenix.Darki said: time travel is not possible unless the laws of nature established that there are different time warps involved in the same plane.
And that is impossible, time is constant and instant.
from what I understand... and believe. But would like to know that time isn't constant and the same.
It's been proven that time is different outside the earth.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
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Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-29 13:45:33
Diabolos.Megatron said: were talking about a thorey of time travel and you dont like what if land. thats waht this is all about . thory sharing ideas interacting. exploring. casue and effect, chaos thory, multiverse, phisics, psycology. endless amounts of data smashing together creating off shoots off of off shoots.
being right or wrong when it comes to a thory isn't waht this is all about. our communications creats a spark in others who gives them the driveto add ther thory. and we asorb it add it to the collective. and go farther keeping it alive. all great ideas inventions and premisus spark from talk like these. i enjoythe talk and the expression of ideas on the subject. it beats sitting here waiting for FREAKIN WIND WEATHER i'm not sure if you really know how theories work in the real world...
:/
Quote: In the sciences, a scientific theory comprises a collection of concepts, including abstractions of observable phenomena expressed as quantifiable properties, together with rules (called scientific laws) that express relationships between observations of such concepts. A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena.
A scientific theory is a type of inductive theory, in that its content (i.e. empirical data) could be expressed within some formal system of logic whose elementary rules (i.e. scientific laws) are taken as axioms. In a deductive theory, any sentence which is a logical consequence of one or more of the axioms is also a sentence of that theory.
this is what you are talking about in regards to "theory":
Quote: In the humanities, one finds theories whose subject matter does not (only) concern empirical data, but rather ideas. Such theories are in the realm of philosophical theories as contrasted with scientific theories. A philosophical theory is not necessarily scientifically testable through experiment.
which is definitely not the same thing in regards to scientific theory.
what you are saying= daydreaming hypotheses.
nothing really scientific going on in your what-if land dawg.
Diabolos.Megatron
サーバ: Diabolos
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Posts: 185
By Diabolos.Megatron 2010-12-29 14:01:09
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Diabolos.Megatron said: were talking about a thorey of time travel and you dont like what if land. thats waht this is all about . thory sharing ideas interacting. exploring. casue and effect, chaos thory, multiverse, phisics, psycology. endless amounts of data smashing together creating off shoots off of off shoots. being right or wrong when it comes to a thory isn't waht this is all about. our communications creats a spark in others who gives them the driveto add ther thory. and we asorb it add it to the collective. and go farther keeping it alive. all great ideas inventions and premisus spark from talk like these. i enjoythe talk and the expression of ideas on the subject. it beats sitting here waiting for FREAKIN WIND WEATHER i'm not sure if you really know how theories work in the real world... :/ Quote: In the sciences, a scientific theory comprises a collection of concepts, including abstractions of observable phenomena expressed as quantifiable properties, together with rules (called scientific laws) that express relationships between observations of such concepts. A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena. A scientific theory is a type of inductive theory, in that its content (i.e. empirical data) could be expressed within some formal system of logic whose elementary rules (i.e. scientific laws) are taken as axioms. In a deductive theory, any sentence which is a logical consequence of one or more of the axioms is also a sentence of that theory. this is what you are talking about in regards to "theory": Quote: In the humanities, one finds theories whose subject matter does not (only) concern empirical data, but rather ideas. Such theories are in the realm of philosophical theories as contrasted with scientific theories. A philosophical theory is not necessarily scientifically testable through experiment. which is definitely not the same thing in regards to scientific theory. what you are saying= daydreaming hypotheses. nothing really scientific going on in your what-if land dawg. "The word theory, when used by scientists, refers to an explanation of reality that has been thoroughly tested so that most scientists agree on it. It can be changed if new information is found. Theory is different from a working hypothesis, which is a theory that hasn't been fully tested; that is, a hypothesis is an unproven theory.
i know what it is tyvm. a thorey is a incomplete but generally accepted almost complete explanation. BUT still eaves room for more data to be added later
"
i can copy and paste stuff from wikipedia too.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-29 14:02:26
what you were stating is not scientific theory but simple conjecture.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-29 14:07:30
Without researching any of this stuff again, just off the top of my head basically, the current theory is based off of string theory.
Every possible path or time line of anything to have ever happen and has happened is already out there.
Take this example:
There exists a version of me who traveled back to say 1963 and prevented JFK from getting shot. While I was back in 1963 I accidentally caused some kind of accident that killed my mother.
Do I still exist? Of course. Did I change history? That's the tough question.
That chain of events is one path that exists. If there was any problem with my changing of events to prevent my existence, that path would have never existed to begin with.
What about the history I knew of before I went back in time to change events? That's the tough one, because in my perspective (as in consciousness itself) time is always moving forward.
Subjectively you can never change the past. The chain of events, although crossing along time, is still a linear path in my existence.
Objectively... well everything is relative so did I change history? Only I would know, but that change is just my being continuing to move forward.
So that's all I can think of at the moment.
[+]
Ramuh.Vinvv
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-29 14:09:13
If you can convince the whole world of something essentially you can change the past :P
Memory alteration is time travel 101.
Diabolos.Megatron
サーバ: Diabolos
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By Diabolos.Megatron 2010-12-29 14:11:10
Ramuh.Vinvv said: If you can convince the whole world of something essentially you can change the past :P Memory alteration is time travel 101. is that a philosophical theory or hyphothisus?
サーバ: Shiva
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Posts: 20130
By Shiva.Nikolce 2010-12-29 14:12:02
Ifrit.Daemun said: Shiva.Nikolce said: We call him "Lefty" because his left arm got ripped off and we're mean and you don't even want to know how uniball got his name. You can't troll as well as I, cease and desist.
I can't even figure out what trolling really means, but I'm one of those guys that laughs at his own jokes even when I read them over again later so you will just have to grin and bear it, like that time Uncle Chuck stayed at your house after he got out of prison.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-29 14:12:25
Also forgot to mention that the only things that can travel back and forth in time are sub atomic particles I believe. Can't remember if atomic particles could, got to look that up.
In any case molecules and higher structure can't travel back in time. Best case is the whole suspended animation thing or that thing where you travel really fast around the earth to so called go into the future.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-29 14:16:13
Diabolos.Megatron said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: If you can convince the whole world of something essentially you can change the past :P Memory alteration is time travel 101. is that a philosophical theory or hyphothisus? philosophical theory.
our knowledge of the past is on a basis of memory so changing that memory collectively essentially could change the past.
the plausibility of it happening large scale is a bit ridiculous, but on a small scale i bet it has been done.
a good example is the glorification of American History in American History Textbooks.
:D
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By Titan.Lillica 2010-12-29 14:19:00
Trunks went back in time, a few times. You should ask him.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-29 14:20:36
Titan.Lillica said: Trunks went back in time, a few times. You should ask him. i do not believe he did.
he went into a parallel universe/multiverse.
Fairy.Spence
サーバ: Fairy
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Posts: 23780
By Fairy.Spence 2010-12-29 14:23:05
Lakshmi.Mabrook said: To be able to travel to the future you have to go faster than light-speed and anything faster than light-speed would create a black-hole thus killing everything in the past you just left, which in turn leaving that future destroyed as well.
Traveling to the past ain't gonna happen, no possible way as far as common knowledge tells us.
Anything is possible though, but I doubt it'll be in my lifetime and the day time-travel is possible will be the day humanity will surely end.
Also, day dreaming is a waste and traveling to the future means you are bored with life and traveling to the past means you're not satisfied, ofc no human is ever satisfied though, so w/e lol.
It's silly to say something is impossible. We just don't know.
It sure is fun to imagine though!
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
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By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-29 14:28:43
Fairy.Spence said: Lakshmi.Mabrook said: To be able to travel to the future you have to go faster than light-speed and anything faster than light-speed would create a black-hole thus killing everything in the past you just left, which in turn leaving that future destroyed as well.
Traveling to the past ain't gonna happen, no possible way as far as common knowledge tells us.
Anything is possible though, but I doubt it'll be in my lifetime and the day time-travel is possible will be the day humanity will surely end.
Also, day dreaming is a waste and traveling to the future means you are bored with life and traveling to the past means you're not satisfied, ofc no human is ever satisfied though, so w/e lol.
It's silly to say something is impossible. We just don't know.
It sure is fun to imagine though! this is a nicer way to put what I was trying to say lol.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-29 14:33:00
Ramuh.Vinvv said: If you can convince the whole world of something essentially you can change the past :P
Memory alteration is time travel 101. Even if you convince someone of something they still have the memory of the what they thought previously.
You can change textbooks, you can change written history, you can change anything regarding recorded history, but you still haven't changed what really happened.
Fenrir.Schutz
サーバ: Fenrir
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Posts: 3122
By Fenrir.Schutz 2010-12-29 14:34:08
I don't know...but if haste truly takes time to proc, then time travel must clearly be possible. {You can have this.}
I think we just need to ask those Moogle Time Mages how they pull it off.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
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Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-29 14:35:44
Leviathan.Chaosx said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: If you can convince the whole world of something essentially you can change the past :P
Memory alteration is time travel 101. Even if you convince someone of something they still have the memory of the what they thought previously.
You can change textbooks, you can change written history, you can change anything regarding recorded history, but you still haven't changed what really happened.
why do you think that?
in regards to the textbook stuff.
that type of change isn't a direct change.
it's more of an over-time change.
meaning that over time people will not know what is really true.
that concept is especially true in this day and age when it comes to past events IMO(aka 911/war on iraq...etc)
Fairy.Spence
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By Fairy.Spence 2010-12-29 14:37:50
1984?
Mab, I agree with you, and was just adding to it.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-12-29 14:39:06
Fairy.Spence said: 1984?
Mab, I agree with you, and was just adding to it. yup yup yup :D
weird how much of a reality it has came to pass so far.
i like this more modernized movie as well.
equilibrium
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-29 14:41:14
This article is a good read. Found it while trying to find out about what particles can travel through time.
Subatomic Particles: Time Travel Redux
サーバ: Titan
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By Titan.Lillica 2010-12-29 14:41:48
One time I went to take a nap, and when I woke up I was in the future.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-29 14:46:00
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: If you can convince the whole world of something essentially you can change the past :P
Memory alteration is time travel 101. Even if you convince someone of something they still have the memory of the what they thought previously.
You can change textbooks, you can change written history, you can change anything regarding recorded history, but you still haven't changed what really happened.
why do you think that?
in regards to the textbook stuff.
that type of change isn't a direct change.
it's more of an over-time change.
meaning that over time people will not know what is really true.
that concept is especially true in this day and age when it comes to past events IMO(aka 911/war on iraq...etc)
Because I firmly believe that the world was not created in 6 days, although there could be a time where I was told this was true and believed it.
People throw spins on past events all the time, still doesn't change what actually happened though. If we could read the 4th dimension like a book, then we would know for sure what did happen lol.
Fenrir.Schutz
サーバ: Fenrir
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Posts: 3122
By Fenrir.Schutz 2010-12-29 14:46:30
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: If you can convince the whole world of something essentially you can change the past :P
Memory alteration is time travel 101. Even if you convince someone of something they still have the memory of the what they thought previously.
You can change textbooks, you can change written history, you can change anything regarding recorded history, but you still haven't changed what really happened.
why do you think that?
in regards to the textbook stuff.
that type of change isn't a direct change.
it's more of an over-time change.
meaning that over time people will not know what is really true.
that concept is especially true in this day and age when it comes to past events IMO(aka 911/war on iraq...etc)
He's getting at the notion of Plato-style epistemology and the concept of universal Truth (beyond perception.) Sort of like when Plato espoused the idea of men who live their entire lives chained in a cave and can only see each others' shadows cast on a cave wall, and whose entire concept of reality is based on shadows of actual objects and what they perceive as reality are shadows.
http://www.historyguide.org/intellect/allegory.html
The idea being that what we know to be reality and what the chained men see as reality are two different things, but (supposedly) the reality we know is the correct one and theirs is based on faulty perception. Thus (again supposedly) the universal Truth of the situation supersedes the subjective reality caused by human perception of events.
Of course New Age 420-lifestyle thought will easily counter the notion that we can possibly know anything or everything, but Plato at least makes a good effort in suggesting universal Truth exists.
/end tangent :p
Ifrit.Daemun
サーバ: Ifrit
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Posts: 955
By Ifrit.Daemun 2010-12-29 14:47:16
Titan.Lillica said: One time I went to take a nap, and when I woke up I was in the future. Can you please share this information with the rest of the world so that we may experience this phenomenon as well?^^
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
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Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-29 14:50:37
Fenrir.Schutz said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Leviathan.Chaosx said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: If you can convince the whole world of something essentially you can change the past :P
Memory alteration is time travel 101. Even if you convince someone of something they still have the memory of the what they thought previously.
You can change textbooks, you can change written history, you can change anything regarding recorded history, but you still haven't changed what really happened.
why do you think that?
in regards to the textbook stuff.
that type of change isn't a direct change.
it's more of an over-time change.
meaning that over time people will not know what is really true.
that concept is especially true in this day and age when it comes to past events IMO(aka 911/war on iraq...etc)
He's getting at the notion of Plato-style epistemology and the concept of universal Truth (beyond perception.) Sort of like when Plato espoused the idea of men who live their entire lives chained in a cave and can only see each others' shadows cast on a cave wall, and whose entire concept of reality is based on shadows of actual objects and what they perceive as reality are shadows.
http://www.historyguide.org/intellect/allegory.html
The idea being that what we know to be reality and what the chained men see as reality are two different things, but (supposedly) the reality we know is the correct one and theirs is based on faulty perception. Thus (again supposedly) the universal Truth of the situation supersedes the subjective reality caused by human perception of events.
Of course New Age 420-lifestyle thought will easily counter the notion that we can possibly know anything or everything, but Plato at least makes a good effort in suggesting universal Truth exists.
/end tangent :p Wow it's been a long time since I remember reading that example in class.
But I was more or less referring to string theory. An absolute truth to history only extends to our spot in the 5th dimension.
Ifrit.Daemun
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By Ifrit.Daemun 2010-12-29 14:51:21
Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Because I firmly believe that the world was not created in 6 days, although there could be a time where I was told this was true and believed it.
Who's to say the 6 day reference was literal? How we perceive time and how God perceives time are two completely different things. As confusing as the Bible is, it was written in as 'layman terms' as possible so that we could relate to everything in it.
Although many inflation theory scientists believe that the universe was indeed created in a very short time frame. It supposedly reached about 90% of its current size in a matter of a week (or 6-7 days). The remaining 10% would be attributed to the widely accepted rule that the universe is continually expanding.
Leviathan.Chaosx
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By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-12-29 14:55:44
Ifrit.Daemun said: Leviathan.Chaosx said:
Because I firmly believe that the world was not created in 6 days, although there could be a time where I was told this was true and believed it.
Who's to say the 6 day reference was literal? How we perceive time and how God perceives time are two completely different things. As confusing as the Bible is, it was written in as 'layman terms' as possible so that we could relate to everything in it.
Although many inflation theory scientists believe that the universe was indeed created in a very short time frame. It supposedly reached about 90% of its current size in a matter of a week (or 6-7 days). The remaining 10% would be attributed to the widely accepted rule that the universe is continually expanding. I knew I shouldn't have used a religious example, lol!
Couldn't resist though.
My point was you still remember what you thought was true even though someone convinces you of something else. Your old idea is still in memory.
okay so cousin is into the whole fiction things and the subject he loves more is time travel. He explines to me how it would work he even gave me a website of John titor (I looked thru the website read it sounds fake to me but meh). My thoughts on it are sure maybe it can be done but I wont live Long enought to see it happen. My question is what are you're thoughts on it do think it can be done? Do you think time travelers are among us? What could be the point of it honest from what I read if we do go back in time to change the past, we aren't really changing our timeline we are just creating a new one. Or I don't know what are you're thoughts guys and girls
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