Problem With Paladin. HP Build A Cheat. How Come?

DD or PLD, if your both maintaining the hate cap it will still turn to you when the other takes DMG.

His real point is that the PLD is an extraneous part of your alliance/setup, the only tank you NEED... is a MNK or NIN DD. Why have the MNK or NIN hold back and let an inferior tank(PLD) tank when they can just go about their business and do it better? :x

I sure hope I'm making sense.

My tank holds hate just fine, but then again he doesn't try and tank on PLD. You gain nothing - let me emphasize that, there is no benefit whatsoever - to having your DDs play so conservatively that they don't take hate. DDs can manage hate just fine.

why would you moderate your DDing when you can get rid of the pld, have DDs go balls to the wall and kill whatever you're fighting at least 5-10 minutes faster with no risk of wiping?

also, what night said

In short - PLD is dead

PLD/WAR -
-2.6K HP
-25% MDT
-20% Haste
lowest DD in alliance
vs
MNK/WAR -
4.2k HP
-45% PDT
-10% MDT without shellV
-25% haste
-close to capped crit hit rate and capped on crit + dmg
-Highest Parsed DD in alliance, while also tanking.
-close to capped counter rate
-Locks Mobs TP gain for 2 minutes at a time, with downtime of 1 minute
- oh, and 3-5k Ascetic's fury every 10 seconds

MNK is soo good its the only job that can pass on brewing shinryu and still trio it with a BRD and WHM.

In effect, the absolute best job at the moment is MNK, and it was always up there. This game's community, for the longest time, remained loyal to PLD's role as the defacto frontline job/tank. Today it is easily, without a doubt, the worst job in the game.
To fix PLD, SE would either need to boost its utility to that of supersaiyan level 10 status, or completly redesign the game's mechanics/dynamics.

I disagree with nyght on one thing though, PLD didn't always need to dish out good dmg to tank. Melee's were so awefull for the longest time that all PLDs needed to do was cure after aoe's and cast a flash.

As the game developed further and melee improved, PLDs needed to start working for hate through DD sets, cure cheating, and just being a bit smarter.

Cure cheats were game breaking for a while. Gaining CE/VE through cures without actually taking any dmg, which decreases enmity, was genius.

However, it is technically a cheat, as it plays on game dynamics and mechanisms in a way SE didn't foresee or intend.

The job was never complete and has remained the worst designed job in the game.

PLD should NOT have needed to sub /NIN to imitate another's blink tanking style.

It shouldnt have had to use cure cheats.

It shouldnt have had to try to compete with pure DD jobs like mnk, sam, drg, drk, war.

SE never fixed PLD. The community is responsible for bringing out any usefullness in the job, and they've gone as far as they can. Its on SE now to fix the job, because there is just NOTHING that can be done with it now by us; the community.

lolwut

Try 25% while retaining capped haste. Can push it higher if needed (34% if I counted right).

This was because we knew *** all about game mechanics at the time. People didn't understand how powerful haste was, etc. My point was not that we weren't awful back then, it's that if you took everything we know back to 2004 PLD never would have been considered useful to begin with.

I'm working on my MDT set for mnk.

So was NIN/DRK, I would not say adapting to use what is available to you is cheating tbh.

While I agree the job is lacking, using an obviously well geared atma'd MNK as a comparison to a presumeably uncapped un-atma'd PLD is not entirely fair and adds more fuel to the stigma against PLDs who actually manage to parse moderately well in most alliances.

The mechanics of DDing now are more about Atma's than anything else anyway. RR/VV/SA Vorpal Blades from a 8/8 sword merited capped PLD/WAR eating decent food would not be scoffed at by any pickup I've been in. I struggle to believe any PLD worth half a dime would parse last in anything but the most elite alliance.

Yup, but then SE might have noticed back then and done something about it. Now they just want you to give up and goto 14.

How exactly do you have a relic yet not have at least 12% MDT on every job? Merman's Rings/Earrings are all jobs. So is Colossus's Mantle for that matter.

in 2004 what did war have for haste?
I knew what I was sporting in 2005sh
dusk gloves/dusk feet/sonic belt/ panther mask+1/ juggernaut/ridill/blitz ring.
Had about 40% acc on Fafnir, and 20% on Nidhogg?
Would hit for 9-20 dmg tops?
There were no merits back then, no sushi, and brds was as rare as NA's with Sky access.
It wasn't till 2006 that you saw the rise of the DD tank. I would know, I had a huge *** epic forum argument on BG/kI/alla about Ninja's beating Ridill wars in sky, and needed Cli and Stan to post the parse to prove it.

because with an Aegis, I was really going to focus on -MDT gear instead of getting ShellV from my whm for free?

I never said DDs would be tanking, only that PLD wouldn't.

You have other jobs.

Wow, want to know my *** size too? or the car I drive? lol, there's obviously a reason why I don't have capped -MDT on mnk.

Mad much? I only said capped when I thought we were speaking in general terms, now I'm just amused you have a relic but don't even have basic MDT gear for your useful jobs. ***costs like 300k total.

I wonder what the point of you posting is tbh?

Originally? Correcting what I thought were faulty numbers. Now? Pointing out your MDT set is gimp.

What was the point of asking me if I wanted to know about your *** size and car?

This little ***-for-tat is over. You can troll someone else, Queen of the forums.

Yah, as I mentioned in other threads, I personally don't think it was due to lack-of-understanding mechanics that always allowed PLD to hold hate off of other jobs insofar as it was a static 75 level cap, where NMs and HNMs (worth doing) were consistently far far above that cap.

That traditional level difference and mob defense and resistance levels resulted in DDs doing far less damage than they do currently in Abyssea-situations, with resulting smaller DD melee hits and spikes, and resulted in much much smaller gains in VE/CE which allowed PLD tanks to hold hate decently. But with so many Atma and mob-debuffing JA's and spells that can be applied to DDs currently, the numbers are all over the place. Maybe if SE finally settles on some post-99 endgame HNM levels outside of Abyssea things might be like they used to.

To answer MY questions. I simply wanted to know the reasons and issues of today's role with Paladin which I have appreciated everyone's input on this topic today, not trade insults with each other. Nothing more and nothing less.

that would be good for pld, and horrible for the rest though.
No one wants those days to return, including me.
I don't want everyone else to be gimp in order for PLD to be usefull again.
The job needs a revamp. Newer players who don't know SE as well, think that PLD is just going to stay the same.
They werent around for the samurai buffs, dual wield/h2h nerfs, 2handed weapon boost, PLD super Sunday sentinel/rampart/shield mastery buffs.

SE on occassion, drastically redesigns/modifies jobs. Heck, AOEs used to eat 1 Utsesmi shadows and rampage/penta thrust used to give back 40-46% tp. Something will be done about PLD, I just hope they don't gimp everyone else in order for it to take place.

We shall see then won't we? No MMO is ever perfect with jobs. Games like WoW for example have had or currently having their jobs suffer, we are no different. The important thing I see is making due with what we have. Would I want things to be balanced out? Yes, of course. But I know that may not the case and who knows if it ever will be. We are mearly players of the game, it is SE who have the ability to set up the stage for us in any way they try to do and/or see fit.

With that said, we shall see what happens as I said earlier.

My point was that NIN/DRK, NIN/RDM, and especially RDM/NIN (since it didn't mature for years) tanking would have emerged far sooner and by the time PLD could DD tank true DDs would have been on the rise.

wich atmas for get 5k hps ?

Merit Abyssites mostly, and become Galka.

capped cruor buffs HP/MP%
SS
Impregnable tower
Carbonorra
and dont be a taru

As conventional tanking is basically dead, turn Paladin into this:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Chocobo_Knight
Maintain all there current abilties, but gain the additional attacks/dmg of the chocobo (and more importantly hate cap).

As two distinct units classed as one unit, you would essentially have 20k CE/VE caps instead of 10. Damage could be paired between yourself and the chocobo (which you could armor like an automoton) and obviously with superior damage output would make you a much more worthy candidate for tanking.

Pretty much off topic but I'm gona bring it back to the OP, the reason the HP cheat is no longer useful is because any DD can now cap hate and maintain it faster than any amount of cure spamming. Allowing PLD to excede the cap is pretty much the only way to bring back conventional tanking and increasing their damage output (through a chocobo would be nice) is the only way to make it worthwhile ^^

I see. That much is true. So getting additional HP gear would not be necessary, eh?