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Will PLD be useful again at lvl 99?
Carbuncle.Alnitak
サーバ: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 25
By Carbuncle.Alnitak 2010-12-06 14:58:03
Titan.Darkwizardzin said: Aegis Rare Exclusive
Shield
DEF:40
Augments "Shield Bash" IV
Magic damage taken -40%
Shield size 5
Lv90 PLD
Ochain Rare Exclusive
Shield
DEF:40 VIT+20
Converts 25% of damage taken to MP
upon successful block
Shield size 6
Lv90 PLD
......................can we stop saying PLD is a dead job now? or am I being stupid?
I'm... not seeing it.
I mean, less magic damage taken, yay, but weren't aegis users able to cap magic defense already?
Augmenting shield bash is cute, but, what, 500-600 damage every 5 minutes vs. what a decent DD can pump out?
Damage taken to mp is nice, but MP really isn't a problem these days.
And shield size 6, does that mean even less chance of proc vs. size 4/5?
Cerberus.Blazed
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Cerberus.Blazed 2010-12-07 12:32:32
This update did more than throw PLD a bone. The Aegis Augments are lackluster, true. Take it for what it is; less item sets, less macros swaps.
Zerg is the name of the game. Gear your PLDs for dps. While you won't keep up with a top tier mnk, nin, or war in dmg, you will gain enough to keep the mob focused on you providing you are doing everything else you used before you needed to start pumping out the dmg.
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サーバ: Ifrit
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-12-07 12:47:47
If it still can't keep up with DDs then it isn't fixed. Still having to resort to cures/JAs lowers DoT, keeping hate really isn't the problem.
サーバ: Sylph
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-12-07 12:51:12
You'd deal more dmg dual wielding
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サーバ: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Terminus 2010-12-07 12:51:59
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: If it still can't keep up with DDs then it isn't fixed. Still having to resort to cures/JAs lowers DoT, keeping hate really isn't the problem.
If PLD kept up with DDs, then it wouldn't be fixed, it would be broken in the other direction.
Here's a thought, though, for everyone: Welcome to page 26. Doesn't that amount of opposing opinions at least warrant the concession that PLD may in fact still have some use, especially when you consider the widely varying styles of play, accessibility of gear, and varying skill levels?
サーバ: Ifrit
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-12-07 12:54:40
Fenrir.Terminus said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: If it still can't keep up with DDs then it isn't fixed. Still having to resort to cures/JAs lowers DoT, keeping hate really isn't the problem.
If PLD kept up with DDs, then it wouldn't be fixed, it would be broken in the other direction.
Here's a thought, though, for everyone: Welcome to page 26. Doesn't that amount of opposing opinions at least warrant the concession that PLD may in fact still have some use, especially when you consider the widely varying styles of play, accessibility of gear, and varying skill levels?
I said they should make PLD match melee DPS? This isn't an argument of preference or whatever works for your group, in terms of raw efficiency PLDs getting left behind.
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
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By Leviathan.Catnipthief 2010-12-07 12:56:45
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: Fenrir.Terminus said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: If it still can't keep up with DDs then it isn't fixed. Still having to resort to cures/JAs lowers DoT, keeping hate really isn't the problem.
If PLD kept up with DDs, then it wouldn't be fixed, it would be broken in the other direction.
Here's a thought, though, for everyone: Welcome to page 26. Doesn't that amount of opposing opinions at least warrant the concession that PLD may in fact still have some use, especially when you consider the widely varying styles of play, accessibility of gear, and varying skill levels?
I said they should make PLD match melee DPS? This isn't an argument of preference or whatever works for your group, in terms of raw efficiency PLDs getting left behind.
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: If it still can't keep up with DDs then it isn't fixed. Still having to resort to cures/JAs lowers DoT, keeping hate really isn't the problem.
???
Bismarck.Zeota
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 85
By Bismarck.Zeota 2010-12-07 12:59:18
Possible chant du cygne? Assuming DEX is in fact a modifier.
This is probably too much considering razed ruins and what not.
I dunno. My PLD is still 75 and I'm hard-pressed to justify taking it past that point.
サーバ: Ifrit
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-12-07 12:59:40
This guy said
Cerberus.Blazed said: While you won't keep up with a top tier mnk, nin, or war in dmg, you will gain enough to keep the mob focused on you providing you are doing everything else you used before you needed to start pumping out the dmg.
I said if PLD isnt able to maintain damage equivalent to DDs then this +offensive stats alone does not fix PLD. I did not say hey let's make PLD do MNK/WAR DMG.
ITT: Comprehension is hard
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サーバ: Leviathan
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By Leviathan.Catnipthief 2010-12-07 13:02:25
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: This guy said
Cerberus.Blazed said: While you won't keep up with a top tier mnk, nin, or war in dmg, you will gain enough to keep the mob focused on you providing you are doing everything else you used before you needed to start pumping out the dmg.
I said if PLD isnt able to maintain damage equivalent to DDs then this +offensive stats alone does not fix PLD. I did not say hey let's make PLD do MNK/WAR DMG.
ITT: Comprehension is hard
I got ya now, your wording was a little weird lol.
Cerberus.Blazed
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Cerberus.Blazed 2010-12-07 13:10:02
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: If it still can't keep up with DDs then it isn't fixed. Still having to resort to cures/JAs lowers DoT, keeping hate really isn't the problem.
Point is still valid. You're not going to get any hate depending on either one alone (JA/CURES & DPS). Even a Hybrid setup of offensive/defensive attributes wont work. Just play PLD/NIN like an old school war/nin with RR/VV or RR/GH atmas and dish out the chants and occassional flashes/sentinels/ramaprts. This has worked for me on higher tier NMs in abyssea, and has failed miserably on KI holders. But at the very least, PLD is needed to due to the result we've had using this approach.
By the way, Job vs Job, there's a lot more JA's being thrown around by WAR/SAMs, MNK/WARs than PLDs, if you're going to mention JA/Spell delay, dont forget other jobs also depend on them for functionality.
Meditate-aggressor-warcry-berserk-retaliation-seigan-hasso-third eye
vs
Sentinel-flash-cureIV-rampart
WAR/SAMs JA frequency of hasso/seigan/third eye alone is more time consuming.
サーバ: Ifrit
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-12-07 13:15:23
Yes, but the utility of each of those JAs is vastly different. 3 seconds delay for +10 haste from Hasso, or 3 seconds delay for +crit rate from Impetus etc, vs a quick boost of Enmity from a cure or Sentinel. Then you have to factor the duration of each effect, 5min vs 30 seconds (degrading effect).
The point is, with Almace your DPS is probably your highest form of Enmity, small effect JAs/Spells only cut that down further. I'm not saying don't use PLD ever before someone jumps on that, but this update didn't really bring much to the table for them unfortunately.
Cerberus.Blazed
サーバ: Cerberus
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By Cerberus.Blazed 2010-12-07 13:17:44
Bismarck.Zeota said: Possible chant du cygne? Assuming DEX is in fact a modifier. This is probably too much considering razed ruins and what not. I dunno. My PLD is still 75 and I'm hard-pressed to justify taking it past that point. Hecatomb Mitts
Cerberus.Blazed
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 110
By Cerberus.Blazed 2010-12-07 13:25:18
Well I'll disagree with you on this. I'm a lot more optimistic today than I was a month ago, which is a pretty low refrence point.
Can someone post a link to dps calculator?
Lets test some sets vs WAR/SAM and see what the math says,.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-12-07 13:39:32
Bismarck.Zeota said: Possible chant du cygne? Assuming DEX is in fact a modifier.
This is probably too much considering razed ruins and what not.
I dunno. My PLD is still 75 and I'm hard-pressed to justify taking it past that point. I'd argue the other way and say there's no "too much" for DEX here. STR is only going to add fSTR and given VV + cruor buffs + the STR on some of PLD's best DEX gear you'll effortlessly cap. I also wouldn't neglect attack
Heca/Perle hands, Cerb+1/Nifty/Cavaros depending on pDIF, augmented Jupiter's Ring, possibly Anguinus Belt, WS gorget.
Cerberus.Blazed
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By Cerberus.Blazed 2010-12-07 13:46:08
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Bismarck.Zeota said: Possible chant du cygne? Assuming DEX is in fact a modifier. This is probably too much considering razed ruins and what not. I dunno. My PLD is still 75 and I'm hard-pressed to justify taking it past that point. I'd argue the other way and say there's no "too much" for DEX here. STR is only going to add fSTR and given VV + cruor buffs + the STR on some of PLD's best DEX gear you'll effortlessly cap. I also wouldn't neglect attack Heca/Perle hands, Cerb+1/Nifty/Cavaros depending on pDIF, augmented Jupiter's Ring, possibly Anguinus Belt, WS gorget. I'd go with Cuch's cape instead of nifty/cerbs.
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-12-07 13:50:52
Accuracy should be more than fine with that set, if pDIF is capped (ie Cuch <> Nifty, since Nifty > Cuch with uncapped pDIF), then Cavaros beats all.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-12-08 09:17:26
Similar discussion on BG, this pretty much sums it up
Quote: If you are going to have a bad player tank, Paladin is the best choice.
If you are going to have bad support backing up your tank, Paladin is the best choice.
If you're going to use stupid strategies (having five PUPs melee Dawon), then Paladin is the best choice.
Like Ninja, Paladin is capable of compensating for fail inherent in the rest of the alliance, so good players leveled it back when fail was even more common than now. That created a bunch of good players that were used to essentially soloing monsters with minimal support while DDs killed them. These players generally became leaders, and were used to/liked their central role, so it persisted past when it was necessary. It is still necessary for some shells, but a lot of shells need to just grow up and buy PDT sets for their DDs.
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It seems to me that PLD is not what it once was as a "tank". With the amount of HP, and buffs other jobs can now get, along side the DMG most DD's put out, make it almost useless to use PLD's like they once were.
I think at 99 there are some exciting possibilitys for the job including haste, and other abilitys.
Any ideas how the job may change?
In 2004 it was pretty popular to stack VIT and DEF, 2010, haste ad ACC, it looks like SE is pushing for more -PDT% but who knows. :D
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