You'd be surprised. The lot of retail box sales go to the printing, packaging, and shipping companies. The bulk then goes to the retail company. Whenever you see a game sitting prominently on a shelf, or on an aisle end cap, it's not because the retail company thought it was cool enough to put there: it's because the developer probably paid about $100,000 to have it put there.
I know that as of about 10 years ago (the last time I did games that really 'shipped' on disk as their primary delivery method), the developers only made about $4-5 off each retail copy sold.
Ouch... no wonder so many game companies are pushing digital download copies nowadays. Must save a small fortune for them.
You still need them. The hardcore players provide that sense of value for your items, and provide the upper level of acheivement to push the edge of your content. They're still necessary for the health of a virtual world. Without them, you get say... Farmville.
You just can't exclusively rely on them for your revenue anymore. You probably can't even rely on them for a substantial part of it.
Don't get me wrong, I love these hard-core knuckle-heads on here. And yes, I know they keep the industry honest. They would be pumping out mindless trash were it not for the extreme, thats why the far points are necessary in any system to build a balance and serve as a reminder.
Just in the name of balance it would be nice for them to remember that casual players are not something they should hold their noses over, rather we are the share-holders in a market that keeps their favorite worlds alive so that they can do their endless 24/7 - family fleeing fantasy fun...
I know of some folks making $10-20 off each retail box purchased, but that's the high end. If you're not also your own publisher, you're screwed even more because the publisher takes most of the cut.
It's one of the main reasons that publishers (Electronic Arts, Activision, Microsoft, etc) run the industry now. Development studios were so beholden to them that publishers ended up just buying them all outright instead.
And yes, it's why digital downloads are doing so well. More money for the developers. It's why Steam is through the roof in profitability right now and GameStop is struggling to make ends meet.
Kujata.Maugris said:
Just in the name of balance it would be nice for them to remember that casual players are not something they should hold their noses over, rather we are the share-holders in a market that keeps their favorite worlds alive so that they can do their endless 24/7 - family fleeing fantasy fun...
Oh and if you nerd-ragers think you hate casuals... ffxivcore just got a press statement that FFXIV will be released in China.... muh ha ha ha ha.... one-billion casuals.... ha...
I know of some folks making $10-20 off each retail box purchased, but that's the high end. If you're not also your own publisher, you're screwed even more because the publisher takes most of the cut.
It's one of the main reasons that publishers (Electronic Arts, Activision, Microsoft, etc) run the industry now. Development studios were so beholden to them that publishers ended up just buying them all outright instead.
And yes, it's why digital downloads are doing so well. More money for the developers. It's why Steam is through the roof in profitability right now and GameStop is struggling to make ends meet.
That makes me sad, because the frequent direction publishers make tends to shove developers into a corner or against a wall so to speak and the results = Boring repetitive FPS with a coat of paint released on a weekly basis.
That makes me sad, because the frequent direction publishers make tends to shove developers into a corner or against a wall so to speak and the results = Boring repetitive FPS with a coat of paint released on a weekly basis.
Yup, and as gamers demand a higher and higher production quality, and the budgets of AAA games gets higher and higher, the bigger the risk a publisher has to take when funding a game.
This means that they want to know more and more that a particular game will be profitable. They want to know expected retail sales numbers with laser-like precision before they even fund your development. So you get Halo: Reach. Call of Duty III. Madden 2011. Final Fantasy XIII. Etc.
Not knocking those games. They're good games. But you wonder why everything is a sequel now and no one is willing to take a gamble on an unproven design? That's why.
It's also why a whole lot of the creative force in the AAA industry is starting to eye casual, social gaming with increasing interest as a career move. The money over there is retardedly huge, the production quality bar is a lot lower, and so you can go back to dicking around with interesting (read: risky) game designs again.
Oh and if you nerd-ragers think you hate casuals... ffxivcore just got a press statement that FFXIV will be released in China.... muh ha ha ha ha.... one-billion RMT's.... ha...
That makes me sad, because the frequent direction publishers make tends to shove developers into a corner or against a wall so to speak and the results = Boring repetitive FPS with a coat of paint released on a weekly basis.
Makes me sad too... a lot of good FPS and RTS games were ruined this way. It's sad when you hear "Oh yeah, they got bought out by EA..." and you decide you're done with the series on the spot. I don't even give some sequels a chance anymore. :(
That makes me sad, because the frequent direction publishers make tends to shove developers into a corner or against a wall so to speak and the results = Boring repetitive FPS with a coat of paint released on a weekly basis.
Yup, and as gamers demand a higher and higher production quality, and the budgets of AAA games gets higher and higher, the bigger the risk a publisher has to take when funding a game.
This means that they want to know more and more that a particular game will be profitable. They want to know expected retail sales numbers with laser-like precision before they even fund your development. So you get Halo: Reach. Call of Duty III. Madden 2011. Final Fantasy XIII. Etc.
Not knocking those games. They're good games. But you wonder why everything is a sequel now and no one is willing to take a gamble on an unproven design? That's why.
It's also why a whole lot of the creative force in the AAA industry is starting to eye casual, social gaming with increasing interest as a career move. The money over there is retardedly huge, the production quality bar is a lot lower, and so you can go back to dicking around with interesting (read: risky) game designs again.
Yeah, I'd have to say with the market how it is today taking a risk could kill you're company. Milking an old cash cow, yes it's nothing new but it pays the bills.
So what is the fatigue system? simply put the fatigue system is a limit on how fast you can level up.
So why is there a limit? Here's why: When designing a game, a game developer decides how fast a player will progress from level to level. A common way to do this is to add a leveling curve. Making it easy for players to level up at first and much harder the higher they get. So a leveling curve is nothing more than a time sink.
But here's the problem: If a developer sets the curve too low, the players who can play 12 hours a day will reach the maximum level within weeks. If they set the curve too high, the players who can only manage 1 to 2 hours a day will take years to reach the max.
This is a major way MMOs retain their subscriptions!
Square-Enix puts a spin on the system. Instead of making someone play tons and tons of hours to reach the maximum level, they made it easier for everyone to level up overall, but still control the rate at which players can progress through the game.
Here's how the limit works... the fatigue limit is divided into thresholds. a single threshold is equal to the amount of experience points a regular player will gain in an hour, while continuously fighting battles. You will get experience points at a normal rate, until you break the 8th threshold. After that the experience points you gain will gradually decrease, until you reach the 15th threshold where you can no longer gain experience points.
But... Once you stop fighting battles, this threshold will slowly start decreasing, and you will be able to gain experience points once again. Not only that, the threshold will reset once a week, allowing you to have a fresh start.
But getting experience points doesn't end when you reach the fatigue limit. Here's why... when you fight battles you will get two kinds of points.
• You will get experience points. Which levels up your physical level, and gives you increased HP, MP, strength, dexterity, vitality, intelligence, mind and piety.
• And you will also get weapon skill points. Which levels up your class or discipline, and unlocks abilities such as Rampart, Provoke, Red Lotus and Phalanx.
Each class or discipline have their own separate threshold. Let's say you have reached your limit while playing as a gladiator, you can switch disciplines and change into something else, like a marauder. Giving you a completely empty threshold. Also while playing as a marauder, your gladiator threshold will start decreasing.
With 18 Disciplines to choose from, you will never run out of skill points to gain.
But why level more than one discipline? Because in Final Fantasy 14, you can combine and use abilities from other disciplines.
Here's how it works: when you play a gladiator you can learn abilities like red lotus at rank 2, which deals increased fire damage. And rampart at rank 4, which increases your defenses.
• A marauder at rank 6 learns the ability bloodbath, which converts a percentage of damage dealt into HP.
• and a pugilist at rank 6 learns second wind, which restores HP at the cost of TP.
Under the armory system you can combine those abilities to make your gladiator even stronger.
So there are two ways for character growth, vertically with your physical level. and horizontally with your levels of discipline. Players who can manage to play only 1 hour a day, can still reach and enjoy the max level, at the same time as a player who can play 15 hours a day. But players who have more time to play, can grow more horizontally, and have more options and more abilities. Making it a very fair compromise.
The idea of a fatigue system is so revolutionary that at first glance it sounds ridiculous to most people. But when you really start to look at it, the system allows for more freedom.
So you have to tap into the only resource that isn't yet saturated: casual gamers. And the only way you can tap into them is to provide them a method to feel they are just as competitive a hardcore. This needs to be written into your game design from square one and be available on launch day. How do you do that?
Better come up with a good answer quick, or you're not getting your $100 million to even start your game.
so, one thing that i have not heard from them is how the fatigue system cools off. my question is this. if i play 24/7... will i only be able to get 12 hours worth of experience a week? 8hrs full, then 8 hours at an average of 50%... will i stay at 0% exp or alternating between 0-1% if i dont stop playing?
would this give someone who plays 8 hours on and 8 hours off or even 6 on 6 off a distinct exp advantage?
what i mean by this is that i worry that playing too much will earn less exp TOTAL (8 hours@100%, 8 hours off, 8hours @100% again vs 8@100, 8@50 then 0-1% for the rest of the week)
if i expand horizontally like crazy but someone who plays less levels up physically more than i do it is total BS
Jaerik...thank you for breaking down this ***so logically with actual info from the industry. It actually does sway my opinion a few times when you break ***down like that. (inb4 dickridin lol)..
I'm not liking the system atm..but FF14 has samurais...goddam it...I really would try the game just for samurai lol..Looks like I need to upgrade my PC with money I dont have fml lol.... Anybody know a decent build for cheap? (not min requirements I mean)
Ah wow, this makes more sense after watching that video. In a way, it sweetened the deal to level more classes to gain its abilities to add to your own. It's still a time-sink for the more dedicated players but in a different way.
You can still play as one class for those who rather be excellent at one job, but you can play other classes and add other abilities to your main. Might suck for casuals if hardcore chumps expect you to have other abilities regardless (Like having the right sub-job in XI), but we'll see.
So what is the fatigue system? simply put the fatigue system is a limit on how fast you can level up.
So why is there a limit? Here's why: When designing a game, a game developer decides how fast a player will progress from level to level. A common way to do this is to add a leveling curve. Making it easy for players to level up at first and much harder the higher they get. So a leveling curve is nothing more than a time sink.
But here's the problem: If a developer sets the curve too low, the players who can play 12 hours a day will reach the maximum level within weeks. If they set the curve too high, the players who can only manage 1 to 2 hours a day will take years to reach the max.
This is a major way MMOs retain their subscriptions!
Square-Enix puts a spin on the system. Instead of making someone play tons and tons of hours to reach the maximum level, they made it easier for everyone to level up overall, but still control the rate at which players can progress through the game.
Here's how the limit works... the fatigue limit is divided into thresholds. a single threshold is equal to the amount of experience points a regular player will gain in an hour, while continuously fighting battles. You will get experience points at a normal rate, until you break the 8th threshold. After that the experience points you gain will gradually decrease, until you reach the 15th threshold where you can no longer gain experience points.
But... Once you stop fighting battles, this threshold will slowly start decreasing, and you will be able to gain experience points once again. Not only that, the threshold will reset once a week, allowing you to have a fresh start.
But getting experience points doesn't end when you reach the fatigue limit. Here's why... when you fight battles you will get two kinds of points.
• You will get experience points. Which levels up your physical level, and gives you increased HP, MP, strength, dexterity, vitality, intelligence, mind and piety.
• And you will also get weapon skill points. Which levels up your class or discipline, and unlocks abilities such as Rampart, Provoke, Red Lotus and Phalanx.
Each class or discipline have their own separate threshold. Let's say you have reached your limit while playing as a gladiator, you can switch disciplines and change into something else, like a marauder. Giving you a completely empty threshold. Also while playing as a marauder, your gladiator threshold will start decreasing.
With 18 Disciplines to choose from, you will never run out of skill points to gain.
But why level more than one discipline? Because in Final Fantasy 14, you can combine and use abilities from other disciplines.
Here's how it works: when you play a gladiator you can learn abilities like red lotus at rank 2, which deals increased fire damage. And rampart at rank 4, which increases your defenses.
• A marauder at rank 6 learns the ability bloodbath, which converts a percentage of damage dealt into HP.
• and a pugilist at rank 6 learns second wind, which restores HP at the cost of TP.
Under the armory system you can combine those abilities to make your gladiator even stronger.
So there are two ways for character growth, vertically with your physical level. and horizontally with your levels of discipline. Players who can manage to play only 1 hour a day, can still reach and enjoy the max level, at the same time as a player who can play 15 hours a day. But players who have more time to play, can grow more horizontally, and have more options and more abilities. Making it a very fair compromise.
The idea of a fatigue system is so revolutionary that at first glance it sounds ridiculous to most people. But when you really start to look at it, the system allows for more freedom.
