Merits For A Endgame RDM

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2010-06-21
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merits for a endgame RDM
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 Lakshmi.Emanuelle
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By Lakshmi.Emanuelle 2010-09-01 20:08:01  
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
If you have only one merit in slow 2, it caps out at 35% slow. Adding merits brings that up to 39%. You can't get that 39% with 1 merit no matter how much mnd you put in.
 
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By 2010-09-01 20:20:07
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 Bahamut.Drevin
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By Bahamut.Drevin 2010-09-01 20:26:37  
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Lakshmi.Emanuelle said:
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
If you have only one merit in slow 2, it caps out at 35% slow. Adding merits brings that up to 39%. You can't get that 39% with 1 merit no matter how much mnd you put in.
That is great, but meriting slow II past 1/5 really will not matter much outside of blood tanking. It is only 4% which does not matter when blink tanking and would not of made the difference if waiting on shadow recast. They are much better spent in paralyze II.
probly a stupid question but around how much mnd would you need to get that 35% then lol.
 Ifrit.Darkanaseur
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-09-01 20:32:31  
75dMND
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-09-01 20:32:54  
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Lakshmi.Emanuelle said:
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
If you have only one merit in slow 2, it caps out at 35% slow. Adding merits brings that up to 39%. You can't get that 39% with 1 merit no matter how much mnd you put in.
That is great, but meriting slow II past 1/5 really will not matter much outside of blood tanking. It is only 4% which does not matter when blink tanking and would not of made the difference if waiting on shadow recast. They are much better spent in paralyze II.
Never said it was that important, this was in response to the guy who said extra merits do nothing other than provide magic acc.

And considering para 2 is probably also only adding 1% proc rate for every merit, it's not really worth it either, lol.

And the magic number is the mob's mnd + 75 if I recall.
 Bahamut.Drevin
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By Bahamut.Drevin 2010-09-01 20:33:53  
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said:
75dMND
ooohhhh so it'd depend on what your fighting :3
thanks :D
 
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By 2010-09-01 20:34:39
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 Ifrit.Darkanaseur
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-09-01 20:36:21  
Well generally a lot of mobs tend to have rather low MND, but there's probably some stuff it'd be hard to cap on still.
 
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 Siren.Catabolic
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By Siren.Catabolic 2010-09-01 20:36:39  
Sylph.Kimble said:
Im kinda thrown off how you could have Bio III merits to speed up solos but not have Convert merits which mostly likely speed up your solo more.

That being said, as far as acc merits go, Earth shouldn't really be needed. In my experience, slow either lands or it doesn't I hardly see a resist or a short duration on the spell.

Things that slow does resist on, you most likely aren't going to land it unless you have ES. And as pointed out, the Ice merits do help with Blizzard Nukes.

For Wind acc, really, on mobs that gravity builds up a resistance, wind merits don't really help. Seems the resistance builds up the same.

Dia III, if you ever do anything with DDs, its useful.

In bold. If you're soloing something more than likely it is quite a few levels higher than you. There's no use having more mps at your disposal if you can't land the spells you're casting so in those situations without a doubt accuracy is more important. The accuracy merits also afford you the opportunity to gear potency instead of accuracy so the spells stick longer thus making it even less necessary to have the vert merits.

If you're a solo heavy RDM you really should have ACC in cat.1 and Bio3 in cat.2. This op has nothing to do with solo though..

Also Dasva is right on. If you're in an ally that expects you to do something specific and you're trying to use up all your mps so you can convert every single time the timer is up you're being irresponsible tbh. Cause there's a good chance that when ***does hit the fan, your convert wont be up because you're constantly using it.

People who call bs on almost never needing convert. Get rdm to 80. Get mp and conserve mp. Merit mps. sub scholar 40 and test it out. In an alliance you will hardly ever run out of mps even if you're curing/nuking/enfeebling/debuffing/buffing.

If you're concerned with pty only still merit convert. Just don't try to use it every time its up. If you do and it's not up when it needs to be up cause you're careless with mps you just failed the alliance.
 Ifrit.Darkanaseur
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-09-01 20:39:32  
Siren.Catabolic said:
If you're in an ally that expects you to do something specific and you're trying to use up all your mps so you can convert every single time the timer is up you're being irresponsible tbh. Cause there's a good chance that when ***does hit the fan, your convert wont be up because you're constantly using it.

That's still counterproductive logic. If you're in an uncontrolled scenario where ***does hit the fan, don't vert on a timer, yet you're still benefiting from vert being up again faster if it does happen again.

And yes, I agree people who are claiming to never need to vert are either BSing or playing inefficiently.
 Bahamut.Drevin
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By Bahamut.Drevin 2010-09-01 20:40:02  
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Bahamut.Drevin said:
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Lakshmi.Emanuelle said:
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
If you have only one merit in slow 2, it caps out at 35% slow. Adding merits brings that up to 39%. You can't get that 39% with 1 merit no matter how much mnd you put in.
That is great, but meriting slow II past 1/5 really will not matter much outside of blood tanking. It is only 4% which does not matter when blink tanking and would not of made the difference if waiting on shadow recast. They are much better spent in paralyze II.
probly a stupid question but around how much mnd would you need to get that 35% then lol.
([230] + [y * 10] + [floor(dMND * 1.6)])/1024, and caps @ (350+[y*10])/1024, where y = number of merits in Slow II. Depends on the mob, dMND is the difference between your mind and the mobs. It would take a lot of focus on MND+ for an HNM to cap slow II, but for other things it is not hard. The game and gear is changing though so it is much easier now to do such.

ok so... on the topic of merits...

5/5 vert
5/5 ice?

1/5 slow II
5/5 para II
4/5 bio III

that's sorta what i get outta this in my opinion. but i usually end up doing something wrong xD
 
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By 2010-09-01 20:41:34
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 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-09-01 20:42:48  
I dunno, I just don't see how extra para merits are any better than extra slow merits, they're both just minor increases. If you do any sort of zerg/heavy melee situations, putting some in dia 3 seems better than multiple para 2 merits.
 Bahamut.Drevin
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By Bahamut.Drevin 2010-09-01 20:44:31  
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Bahamut.Drevin said:
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Bahamut.Drevin said:
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Lakshmi.Emanuelle said:
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
If you have only one merit in slow 2, it caps out at 35% slow. Adding merits brings that up to 39%. You can't get that 39% with 1 merit no matter how much mnd you put in.
That is great, but meriting slow II past 1/5 really will not matter much outside of blood tanking. It is only 4% which does not matter when blink tanking and would not of made the difference if waiting on shadow recast. They are much better spent in paralyze II.
probly a stupid question but around how much mnd would you need to get that 35% then lol.
([230] + [y * 10] + [floor(dMND * 1.6)])/1024, and caps @ (350+[y*10])/1024, where y = number of merits in Slow II. Depends on the mob, dMND is the difference between your mind and the mobs. It would take a lot of focus on MND+ for an HNM to cap slow II, but for other things it is not hard. The game and gear is changing though so it is much easier now to do such.
ok so... on the topic of merits... 5/5 vert 5/5 ice? 1/5 slow II 5/5 para II 4/5 bio III that's sorta what i get outta this in my opinion. but i usually end up doing something wrong xD
Actually that is what I am doing for my RDM mule when it is 75+ XD

lol. so i guess i am actually doing something right for once :3

i've just heard that if you get dark skill high enough that the difference between bio II and bio III is like 1 dmg/ tick, meaning those 4 merits could be used somewhere else. i'm not sure D:
 Siren.Catabolic
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By Siren.Catabolic 2010-09-01 20:45:11  
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said:
Siren.Catabolic said:
If you're in an ally that expects you to do something specific and you're trying to use up all your mps so you can convert every single time the timer is up you're being irresponsible tbh. Cause there's a good chance that when ***does hit the fan, your convert wont be up because you're constantly using it.

That's still counterproductive logic. If you're in an uncontrolled scenario where ***does hit the fan, don't vert on a timer, yet you're still benefiting from vert being up again faster if it does happen again.

And yes, I agree people who are claiming to never need to vert are either BSing or playing inefficiently.

In bold. Nah I said the opposite. I do convert, but I hardly ever need to. Elvaan RDM with nearly 1100 mps in my mp build. /sch and conserve mp +10 I cast constantly cure/buff/nuke/debuff/enfeeble and almost never even drop to half mp left.

If you're an rdm who is relied on for situations where you need to be /drk though convert is used more often. Still maybe use it once every 15 mins.
 Ifrit.Darkanaseur
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-09-01 20:45:42  
Slow is a constant effect, so if your potency is overkill, all you do is really consistently overshoot what you need (only really applies to /NIN though) With para, it's a proc, so a higher rate increases the chance to completely negate an attack.
 
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By 2010-09-01 20:48:49
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By 2010-09-01 20:50:37
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 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-09-01 20:51:21  
In the long run though, a mob with 25% slow and a mob with 25% para proc rate will end up attacking the same number of times. Slow doesn't just exist to have enough time to put ichi up. The only real difference in dmg reduction/# of attack reduction is in their consistency.
 Siren.Catabolic
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By Siren.Catabolic 2010-09-01 20:54:05  
Bahamut.Drevin said:
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Bahamut.Drevin said:
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Bahamut.Drevin said:
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Lakshmi.Emanuelle said:
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
If you have only one merit in slow 2, it caps out at 35% slow. Adding merits brings that up to 39%. You can't get that 39% with 1 merit no matter how much mnd you put in.
That is great, but meriting slow II past 1/5 really will not matter much outside of blood tanking. It is only 4% which does not matter when blink tanking and would not of made the difference if waiting on shadow recast. They are much better spent in paralyze II.
probly a stupid question but around how much mnd would you need to get that 35% then lol.
([230] + [y * 10] + [floor(dMND * 1.6)])/1024, and caps @ (350+[y*10])/1024, where y = number of merits in Slow II. Depends on the mob, dMND is the difference between your mind and the mobs. It would take a lot of focus on MND+ for an HNM to cap slow II, but for other things it is not hard. The game and gear is changing though so it is much easier now to do such.
ok so... on the topic of merits... 5/5 vert 5/5 ice? 1/5 slow II 5/5 para II 4/5 bio III that's sorta what i get outta this in my opinion. but i usually end up doing something wrong xD
Actually that is what I am doing for my RDM mule when it is 75+ XD

lol. so i guess i am actually doing something right for once :3

i've just heard that if you get dark skill high enough that the difference between bio II and bio III is like 1 dmg/ tick, meaning those 4 merits could be used somewhere else. i'm not sure D:

Bio3 is much more valuable than Bio2. Bio3 5/5 251+ dark magic skill you get 9 a tic damage for 2 and a half minutes. Bio2 at 291 dark magic skill would only do 8 damage a tic and would last half a minute less than Bio3 5/5.

Also Para2 even at 5/5 procs randomly. Slow2 5/5 is tested and proven to be effective all the time. The safer bet is always Slow2. Which is why nearly all RDM's merit slow2 over para2 any day.

Edit. Para2 is useful though. Just not as much as slow2. If you have decent mnd gear its easy enough to go even 3 or 4 of 5 on slow2 and put the other upgrades into para2.

Bio3 even at 3/5 is more valuable than a blms bio2. So solo rdm Bio3 is awesome.
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-09-01 20:54:29  
I did say zerg/heavy melee, lol. Some people like to use Dia 3 for things other than just zergs, but that's not really feasible unless you actually have at least 2 or 3 merits in it.

And the things you said, all apply to para also. Depends if you care about, depends if someone else already has it merited. And front lines at zergs care about it the most, it's their e peen after all, lol. Even a tank's not gonna care if you have maxed para or not, noone can even tell the difference.
 
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 Ifrit.Darkanaseur
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-09-01 20:57:25  
I'd take the consistency of slow over para for anything I'd be doing without /NIN /SAM tanks. Does lose it's edge somewhat with Elegy available too, in which case a unique effect like Paralyze would pull ahead. Situational etc
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-09-01 21:00:55  
Pandemonium.Spicyryan said:
Unicorn.Tarowyn said:
In the long run though, a mob with 25% slow and a mob with 25% para proc rate will end up attacking the same number of times. Slow doesn't just exist to have enough time to put ichi up. The only real difference in dmg reduction/# of attack reduction is in their consistency.
Do not forget the 25% hit rate reduction from that intense blind!
That might actually make sense if blind lowered acc cap! (Too bad it doesn't)
 
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By 2010-09-01 21:04:33
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 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2010-09-01 21:15:12  
Para works on spells. Having a slowga or a damage ga spell get paraed is sweet. It's not consistent, just like it is with physical but a para proc can mean much when it happens and slow won't stop a spell from getting off ever.
 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-09-01 21:23:38  
That's true, but it's also inconsistent so you still have to take precautions against it somehow with a stun or a mdb/resist set which negates/reduces the effectiveness of para procing on spells. Para certainly isn't a bad thing, the extra merits just don't seem worth it for the small amount of return you get.
 
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By 2010-09-01 21:25:35
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 Unicorn.Tarowyn
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By Unicorn.Tarowyn 2010-09-01 21:29:50  
How is it much more though? One adds 4% proc rate, one adds 4% slow. They're both pretty minor in the scheme of things.
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