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Is there a point in PLD anymore?
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-08-22 19:00:19
Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: How many people, how skilled, and on what jobs... but the point it it can be done, and honestly with a good group numbers generally aren't an issue because a good DD shouldn't be taking significantly more damage than a PLD in most situations.
The point is not "Can it be done".. Almost everything in this game is possible through different combinations, but that doesn't mean they make other methods, obsolete or pointless. I've heard of BLU tanking JoL, PLD still does that Most BLUs don't even know they can tank. If you want to take PLDs to everything knowing full well you'd get the job done regardless on most NMs and do it more efficiently with a non-PLD setup, that's your prerogative and I can't argue with that.
By Shiva.Khimaira 2010-08-22 19:01:50
Shiva.Flionheart said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Tinnin can be bitchy, your average DRK couldnt do it. So? I don't do average. I'm talking about the ones who have two brain cells to rub together. The kind that know how to count to 3 and use PDT/MDT kits.
Quote: Most everything was formerly tankable by RDM, didn't make PLD obsolete then. I feel like Im missing something You're missing that your hardon for PLDs doesn't extend to everyone else.
>< What? This thread isnt about the best, or the most impressive way to do things, just whether PLD is still useful. The short answer is yes.
Efficiency is one of the main aspects of this game.
Never said it wasn't.
By Shiva.Khimaira 2010-08-22 19:02:40
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: How many people, how skilled, and on what jobs... but the point it it can be done, and honestly with a good group numbers generally aren't an issue because a good DD shouldn't be taking significantly more damage than a PLD in most situations.
The point is not "Can it be done".. Almost everything in this game is possible through different combinations, but that doesn't mean they make other methods, obsolete or pointless. I've heard of BLU tanking JoL, PLD still does that Most BLUs don't even know they can tank. If you want to take PLDs to everything knowing full well you'd get the job done regardless on most NMs and do it more efficiently with a non-PLD setup, that's your prerogative and I can't argue with that.
Hell, why is everyone making like i'm saying PLD onry, as long as the mob gets dead IDC. Im all for different job combinations, but at the same time, theres not a way in hell that they will make the traditional ones obsolete..
Edit: That's all I'm saying.. Didnt try to start a flame war, but the fact that PLD is still used proves what I was trying to say.
 Cerberus.Excelior
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 364
By Cerberus.Excelior 2010-08-22 19:02:48
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Tinnin can be bitchy, your average DRK couldnt do it. So? I don't do average. I'm talking about the ones who have two brain cells to rub together. The kind that know how to count to 3 and use PDT/MDT kits. Quote: Most everything was formerly tankable by RDM, didn't make PLD obsolete then. I feel like Im missing something You're missing that your hardon for PLDs doesn't extend to everyone else.
I think tinnin would be very hard for drk to solo tank without a lot of support. I haven't tried it, I have tanked Hydra as drk/nin though a few years ago and the fact its immune to stun combined with trembling can catch u without shadows a lot.
Also lets be realistic about a PDR set for drk. Unless you have access to Dring and valhalla gear you arent getting over 25%ish. Personally I dont use earth staff in my PDR macro due to apoc unless I'm doing Tiamat or something extremely low man. The truth is -25% physical damage can still get you *** up. A crit for 450(typical of HNMs)would hit you for 350. If the mob is immune to stun you have to ride out your PDR set until your Ni timer is up.
What this means is:
Player casts Utsument Ni
Mob does aoe that strips shadows.
Drk is without shadows for 22 seconds
That's more than enough time for u to eat like 3-4 attacks + TP move.
Quetzalcoatl.Giazz
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1308
By Quetzalcoatl.Giazz 2010-08-22 19:03:13
DRK tanking is serious business!
But yeah, seriously, it isn't that hard....just gotta know what you're doing, and have appropriate macros and gear swaps etc.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-08-22 19:04:26
Shiva.Khimaira said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Tinnin can be bitchy, your average DRK couldnt do it. So? I don't do average. I'm talking about the ones who have two brain cells to rub together. The kind that know how to count to 3 and use PDT/MDT kits.
Quote: Most everything was formerly tankable by RDM, didn't make PLD obsolete then. I feel like Im missing something You're missing that your hardon for PLDs doesn't extend to everyone else.
>< What? This thread isnt about the best, or the most impressive way to do things, just whether PLD is still useful. The short answer is yes.
Efficiency is one of the main aspects of this game.
Never said it wasn't.
Then stop implying that.
Why would you take a less efficient group to do something? Just because you 'think' a paladin could be useful?
By Shiva.Khimaira 2010-08-22 19:05:47
Shiva.Flionheart said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Tinnin can be bitchy, your average DRK couldnt do it. So? I don't do average. I'm talking about the ones who have two brain cells to rub together. The kind that know how to count to 3 and use PDT/MDT kits.
Quote: Most everything was formerly tankable by RDM, didn't make PLD obsolete then. I feel like Im missing something You're missing that your hardon for PLDs doesn't extend to everyone else.
>< What? This thread isnt about the best, or the most impressive way to do things, just whether PLD is still useful. The short answer is yes.
Efficiency is one of the main aspects of this game.
Never said it wasn't.
Then stop implying that.
Why would you take a less efficient group to do something? Just because you 'think' a paladin could be useful?
PLD is safer for one, and second- I never said I would. I just said simply because it's still used, and because it's the safest, it's not obsolete. I never said other job combos shouldn't be tried..
[+]
サーバ: Ifrit
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Posts: 2328
By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2010-08-22 19:06:13
I think choice of wording has been an issue here, it's not that PLD isn't useful, just less efficient. They aren't =/=
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-08-22 19:06:46
Cerberus.Excelior said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Tinnin can be bitchy, your average DRK couldnt do it. So? I don't do average. I'm talking about the ones who have two brain cells to rub together. The kind that know how to count to 3 and use PDT/MDT kits. Quote: Most everything was formerly tankable by RDM, didn't make PLD obsolete then. I feel like Im missing something You're missing that your hardon for PLDs doesn't extend to everyone else.
I think tinnin would be very hard for drk to solo tank without a lot of support. I haven't tried it, I have tanked Hydra as drk/nin though a few years ago and the fact its immune to stun combined with trembling can catch u without shadows a lot.
Also lets be realistic about a PDR set for drk. Unless you have access to Dring and valhalla gear you arent getting over 25%ish. Personally I dont use earth staff in my PDR macro due to apoc unless I'm doing Tiamat or something extremely low man. The truth is -25% physical damage can still get you *** up. A crit for 450(typical of HNMs)would hit you for 350. If the mob is immune to stun you have to ride out your PDR set until your Ni timer is up.
What this means is:
Player casts Utsument Ni
Mob does aoe that strips shadows.
Drk is without shadows for 22 seconds
That's more than enough time for u to eat like 3-4 attacks + TP move. We don't solo tank Tinnin. If we did, I'd probably be the one tanking it. As for PDT, make two macros.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-08-22 19:07:45
Shiva.Khimaira said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Shiva.Flionheart said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Tinnin can be bitchy, your average DRK couldnt do it. So? I don't do average. I'm talking about the ones who have two brain cells to rub together. The kind that know how to count to 3 and use PDT/MDT kits.
Quote: Most everything was formerly tankable by RDM, didn't make PLD obsolete then. I feel like Im missing something You're missing that your hardon for PLDs doesn't extend to everyone else.
>< What? This thread isnt about the best, or the most impressive way to do things, just whether PLD is still useful. The short answer is yes.
Efficiency is one of the main aspects of this game.
Never said it wasn't.
Then stop implying that.
Why would you take a less efficient group to do something? Just because you 'think' a paladin could be useful?
PLD is safer for one, and second- I never said I would. I just said simply because it's still used, and because it's the safest, it's not obsolete. I never said other job combos shouldn't be tried..
I wouldn't say they're safer. I'd much rather have a DD tank to speed up the killing.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11681
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-08-22 19:07:58
Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast.
Cerberus.Excelior
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 364
By Cerberus.Excelior 2010-08-22 19:08:33
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Cerberus.Excelior said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Tinnin can be bitchy, your average DRK couldnt do it. So? I don't do average. I'm talking about the ones who have two brain cells to rub together. The kind that know how to count to 3 and use PDT/MDT kits. Quote: Most everything was formerly tankable by RDM, didn't make PLD obsolete then. I feel like Im missing something You're missing that your hardon for PLDs doesn't extend to everyone else. I think tinnin would be very hard for drk to solo tank without a lot of support. I haven't tried it, I have tanked Hydra as drk/nin though a few years ago and the fact its immune to stun combined with trembling can catch u without shadows a lot. Also lets be realistic about a PDR set for drk. Unless you have access to Dring and valhalla gear you arent getting over 25%ish. Personally I dont use earth staff in my PDR macro due to apoc unless I'm doing Tiamat or something extremely low man. The truth is -25% physical damage can still get you *** up. A crit for 450(typical of HNMs)would hit you for 350. If the mob is immune to stun you have to ride out your PDR set until your Ni timer is up. What this means is: Player casts Utsument Ni Mob does aoe that strips shadows. Drk is without shadows for 22 seconds That's more than enough time for u to eat like 3-4 attacks + TP move. We don't solo tank Tinnin. If we did, I'd probably be the one tanking it. As for PDT, make two macros.
Oh well if not solo tank it would be a joke. Macros!? why would i use those...
By Shiva.Khimaira 2010-08-22 19:13:19
Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast.
That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs.
[+]
By Shiva.Khimaira 2010-08-22 19:14:27
Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: I think choice of wording has been an issue here, it's not that PLD isn't useful, just less efficient. They aren't =/= My post was saying PLD isn't obsolete. Which it isn't, end of story. Im getting argued at, over something COMPLETELY different from what I was trying to discuss.
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2010-08-22 19:15:42
Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast.
That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs.
Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO
[+]
Cerberus.Excelior
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 364
By Cerberus.Excelior 2010-08-22 19:18:06
Bahamut.Serj said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast. That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs. Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO
Blu can't DD at all while tanking. For that reason its worse than pld.
[+]
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-08-22 19:18:07
Shiva.Khimaira said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: I think choice of wording has been an issue here, it's not that PLD isn't useful, just less efficient. They aren't =/= My post was saying PLD isn't obsolete. Which it isn't, end of story. Im getting argued at, over something COMPLETELY different from what I was trying to discuss.
Depends on your definition of 'Obsolete' If PLD's don't get any upgrades to tanking that make them efficient, they will be obsolete by the time 99 comes around.
 Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-08-22 19:18:27
Bahamut.Serj said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast. That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs. Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO Except the blocking part. Though blu will have more fast cast. Blu survivability should be on par with a pld. But have a ***TON of more hate tools
Phoenix.Avelle
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 179
By Phoenix.Avelle 2010-08-22 19:18:40
Bahamut.Serj said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast.
That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs.
Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO
I would like to see this, don't believe I've ever seen a BLU tank anything at all, ever.
By Shiva.Khimaira 2010-08-22 19:18:58
Bahamut.Serj said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast.
That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs.
Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO
Perhaps not the shadows... But like Ive been saying, basically since I entered this thread, Im not arguing what's more efficient.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-08-22 19:20:16
Cerberus.Excelior said: Blu can't DD at all while tanking. For that reason its worse than pld. Why not? We got a OAT and OA3 swd now. We have a ws that does good dmg against higher lvl mobs. Sure it's not normal blu DDing but it can be done. Plus you really don't need to spend all your mp on tanking given the hate tools blu has so can still throw out a disservement here and there
By Shiva.Khimaira 2010-08-22 19:20:52
Cerberus.Excelior said: Bahamut.Serj said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast. That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs. Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO
Blu can't DD at all while tanking. For that reason its worse than pld.
This is a good point, though depending on the situation, is not always accurate Shiva.Flionheart said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: I think choice of wording has been an issue here, it's not that PLD isn't useful, just less efficient. They aren't =/= My post was saying PLD isn't obsolete. Which it isn't, end of story. Im getting argued at, over something COMPLETELY different from what I was trying to discuss.
Depends on your definition of 'Obsolete' If PLD's don't get any upgrades to tanking that make them efficient, they will be obsolete by the time 99 comes around.
Well, that's pure conjecture, what proof do you have that the other jobs won't have their hate tools gimped, or that stuff like Third Eye wont be altered. As of now, it isn't, and can't troll me (effectively) based off of what could happen.
Cerberus.Excelior
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 364
By Cerberus.Excelior 2010-08-22 19:21:05
Shiva.Khimaira said: Bahamut.Serj said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast. That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs. Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO Perhaps not the shadows... But like Ive been saying, basically since I entered this thread, Im not arguing what's more efficient.
Jobs that can tank:
PLD/nin
Whm/nin
RDM/nin
Blu/NIN
drk/nin
sam/nin
war/nin
thf/nin
nin/drk
blm/nin
sch/nin (probably)
brd/nin (used to with mazurka)
dnc/nin
K every job but bst and pup can tank.
/thread
edit: Mnk/nin
Sorry multi tasking, that's why my posts are so sloppy.
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2010-08-22 19:22:30
Cerberus.Excelior said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Bahamut.Serj said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast. That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs. Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO Perhaps not the shadows... But like Ive been saying, basically since I entered this thread, Im not arguing what's more efficient.
Jobs that can tank:
PLD/nin
Whm/nin
RDM/nin
Blu/NIN
drk/nin
sam/nin
war/nin
thf/nin
nin/drk
blm/nin
sch/nin (probably)
brd/nin (used to with mazurka)
dnc/nin
K every job but bst and pup can tank.
/thread
lol, i think i see a pattern
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2010-08-22 19:22:42
Cerberus.Excelior said: Bahamut.Serj said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast. That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs. Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO
Blu can't DD at all while tanking. For that reason its worse than pld.
Pld DD wasn't mentioned in that.
By Shiva.Khimaira 2010-08-22 19:23:19
Siren.Thoraeon said: Cerberus.Excelior said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Bahamut.Serj said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast. That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs. Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO Perhaps not the shadows... But like Ive been saying, basically since I entered this thread, Im not arguing what's more efficient.
Jobs that can tank:
PLD/nin
Whm/nin
RDM/nin
Blu/NIN
drk/nin
sam/nin
war/nin
thf/nin
nin/drk
blm/nin
sch/nin (probably)
brd/nin (used to with mazurka)
dnc/nin
K every job but bst and pup can tank.
/thread
lol, i think i see a pattern
Me too... no wait... no I lost it...
By Shiva.Khimaira 2010-08-22 19:24:04
Bahamut.Serj said: Cerberus.Excelior said: Bahamut.Serj said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast. That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs. Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO
Blu can't DD at all while tanking. For that reason its worse than pld.
Pld DD wasn't mentioned in that.
He's talking about Atonement, which no matter what your set up, is consistent damage.
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2010-08-22 19:24:28
Cerberus.Excelior said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Bahamut.Serj said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast. That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs. Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO Perhaps not the shadows... But like Ive been saying, basically since I entered this thread, Im not arguing what's more efficient.
Jobs that can tank:
PLD/nin
Whm/nin
RDM/nin
Blu/NIN
drk/nin
sam/nin
war/nin
thf/nin
nin/drk
blm/nin
sch/nin (probably)
brd/nin (used to with mazurka)
dnc/nin
K every job but bst and pup can tank.
/thread
Either I'm blind (possible and likely) or I don't see mnk on that list
Cerberus.Excelior
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 364
By Cerberus.Excelior 2010-08-22 19:25:00
Shiva.Khimaira said: Bahamut.Serj said: Cerberus.Excelior said: Bahamut.Serj said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast. That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs. Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO Blu can't DD at all while tanking. For that reason its worse than pld. Pld DD wasn't mentioned in that. He's talking about Atonement, which no matter what your set up, is consistent damage.
Actually, from what I've noticed most abysea mobs half resist atonement. Such bull ***.
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2010-08-22 19:25:07
Shiva.Khimaira said: Bahamut.Serj said: Cerberus.Excelior said: Bahamut.Serj said: Shiva.Khimaira said: Fenrir.Nightfyre said: Shiva.Khimaira said: PLD is safer for one JAs with extended cooldowns do not make a job safer unless you need them less frequently than the duration of recast. That's not what I feel makes PLD a safer tank. For one, it doesn't rely as much on the support of others, granted it's more difficult to tank without it, but it's near impossible with unconventional tanking methods. It's easy to keep shadows up through blocking, with either Reprisal, and/or a Shield Skill set. PLD can also heal itself if the mages are having trouble, or to spike their hate, and though un-desirable, in the event the tank dies, a PLD is able to regain hate much quicker than other jobs. Blu can do all those things better than pld IMO
Blu can't DD at all while tanking. For that reason its worse than pld.
Pld DD wasn't mentioned in that.
He's talking about Atonement, which no matter what your set up, is consistent damage.
I know what he's talking about. The point is it wasn't what *you* were talking about.
Not trolling or anything... But really, wouldn't it be better to put a DD in where a PLD normally is in nearly every situation these days?
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