Thf Question

@lvl 40, would it be reasonable to go /dnc since they have dual-wield @lvl 20?

Or am I completely off the mark on this and should stick with /nin?

Depends on what your doing. Its like dancer main now(I think) they should sub nin at sometimes, even with duel wield now automaticly. I could be wrong with that, But I still say its situational. If your pulling, /nin for sure, IMO.

Good point. I generally avoid pulling simply because I suck at nin.

inb4 u suck at everything.

Really it's situational, Parties generally want THF's to /nin, but It's nice to have /dnc imo because THF should only /nin if he's the one pulling. /dnc is nice for the drain samba that benefits everyone, not to mention quickstep and desperate flourish later on.

That is sort of what I was thinking.

/Nin would probably be better after 50 for most situations again, as you'll get dual wield 2. /Dnc will be used for things like Campaign and soloing minor stuff.

Once you get to 80 or 90, depending how long it takes now, generally same thing, /Nin for parties and soloing the difficult stuff, /Dnc for the casual VT or less mobs and campaign, maybe Abyssea if you're not made to pull.

No way I'm leveling it past 49 as a sub. lol

Berserk from /war is a nice little boost to damage if you don't need the utility from DNC... I'd rather spend the tp on Viper Bite anyway at that level. As others have said, /nin for sure if you're pulling.

Well, that's for partying anyway... it's been a while since I solo'd at that level, but I think I'd take /nin's shadows over dnc (assuming you're using bloody bolts, which are awesome)

If you're pulling, defiantly /nin
If you're not pulling, since you shouldn't really be taking hate at that level, /dnc would be better to provide drain samba.

/nin plus bloody bolts ftw, beside you want to save tp for SATA in party's anyway and if you were planning to solo and can't afford bloody bolts use /dnc, and i think a thf should not be asked to back up cure or use drain samba they are there to help tanks keep hate with SATA and to pull.

this

At that lvl if you aren't pulling u will get more bonuses /war instead of spending tp on dances and then not being able to SATA a viper bite when needed.

Wouldn't you also get accuracy bonus from subing dnc? I can't remember what level they learn it...

Sorry or the lateness of this, but many of you thfs out there should consider something else as well... While /dnc is alright for farming and most mobs at lower levels, /nin offers a thf alot more than shadows, duel-wield. I prefer /nin for the main reason the sub available but most have forgotten about. If you dun know what I'm talkin about, /dnc and check your EVA. Then, /nin and check your EVA again. And then you'll understand why you'll never see a thf/dnc tanking and/or soloing Charby(just an example).

@Liltrouble
why exactly would /dnc give more evasion then /nin for THF?
THF itself has highest evasion in game, THF gets Evasionbonus jobtraits before DNC
and THF/DNC lv 40 gets dualwield aswell
think /nin is still better IF you need to pull and if you pull hate

I'm I the only one that fails to see the arguement "/nin if you're pulling"?
If you're pulling (unless you're running up to the mob, stabbing it once and then running away) you probably will be at a far enough range that the mob isn't going to touch you on the way back to camp. At which point someone should be pulling hate off of you. In the case that you get hit with by an AoE it's not going to be something that drain samba isn't going to take care of, and if it's really that bad, pair it with regen and restore HP via minimal MP expenditure.

for the lvl the OP asked /dnc is the way to go

/nin still

The thing about subbing dnc is you kind of sacrifice your WS's which is one of a thief's main tools. You still have thf evasion plus I'm sure dnc gets a slight bonus to eva, but you are going to get hit. You don't have shadows. A thief with shadows can get away with a lot since shadows plus high evasion means very little damage taken which can be offset with bloody bolts. If you use /dnc I am assuming you are sacrificing shadows and snk/invis for healing and spectral jig.

So what do you want? The ability to heal others? Or to be a DD? That's how I look at it. When I am subbing /dnc it is pointless to not have TP stored. Why use /dnc if Im not going to use TP moves? This means I am not going to be WS'ing whenever I get 100TP. Which means you won't be doing the damage you do as /nin when you don't need to store TP.

So do you want to heal others and yourself? Or do you want to do SATA + WS'?

yeah, /dnc is fine to add some utility (random steps mostly). /war to dd.

/war won't benefit your Viper Bites much (unless overcamping), but it sure will make your standard sata do close to those satavb. This increase in dps while /war won't be beaten by DW easily: you would need suppa, or fight squishy things, or be meritlike buffed for that to happen.

If you wanna show ppl you deserve a spot on the party, i say go /war, specially at 60+ (DE likes attack). Of course, you will probably be asked to pull, and @ these lvls most things you fight chase you at super speed. So either try to argument with your party leader (make that brd pull!) or accept the fact and /nin it hehe. (Or build a pt with thf dd in mind.)

Ppl don't like to invite thf because it's a waste of a spot. Imo, otw to 75, provided the player knows what he is doing, anything with berserk will be a good dd (taken today all low lvl items are so cheap). Close to 75 the "old end game items" starts to change things, and that's summed to the "undercamping" factor, which is not a rule otw to 75.

Thanks for your input. I do appreciate it. I actually am deactivating at the end of the month. Need a break.

I was stopping thf at 49, only using it as a sub.

A THF's biggest tool in its aresenal is its evasion. Subbing /nin for pulling lessens the chance at getting skillups on it. Go /dnc, try it, you'll get eva skillups while pulling, and then if it doesn't work try /nin. Use the arguement that you can stat down the mob, and heal yourself as you're pulling. Try something new, break the mold!

The only thing you should be looking at in subs is base agi/dex. If /nin or /dnc gives better bonuses to either then use them. Until you get 60 you should almost NEVER be getting hate from a mob and be using SATA. Now if you're solo'ing FoV do w/e makes you happy. If your evasion is good enuff that drain samba and a few cures can let you easily solo some mobs do it. If you need shadows and bloody bolts thats good too, extra bit of a tip bloody bolts give you tp, so while healing with bolts getting fast tp, which until triple attack bolt spam offers tp at a fast pace.

So do w/e works best, but in exp pt situation go with w/e sub gives the best base stats your there to do damage not heal. thats what whm,rdm,brd,sch's are for.

lol no, not at all. I haven't been playing much in the past few months, so I decided I may as well deactivate. No use paying for something I'm not using right now.

As far as pulling goes. If you are pulling mobs that dont have movement speed, you shouldn't need shadows. If they do have movement speed, then shadows would be useful.

Shadows are only useful for a thf if

A) You plan to be doing some form of tanking.

B) You are fighting mobs with dangerous AOE moves that can be blinked.

Other than that, THF/NIN and THF/DNC get the same AGI at 80 so there is no "extra evasion"

/DNC does give you Acc bonus while /NIN only gives you another tier of Subtle blow (for now).

/war actually kills your DPS vs /nin (or /dnc if you use it for dw only).

if you want an example here is one for you for BASE DPS ONLY:

/war
Mandau Lv75 DMG 39 Delay 176
(39*60)/176
2340/176=13.29

/nin
Mandau Lv75 DMG 39 Delay 176
Blau Lv72 DMG 33 Delay 178
((39+33)*60)/(((176+178)*.85)
4320/300.9
4320/300.9=14.35

TP per hit @ 176 vs (300.9/2) or 150.45 is negligible
5+((176*1.5)/180)=6.46
5+((150.45*1.5)/180)=6.25

Of course I did the math with a P.O.S. offhand and here are those numbers

/nin
Mandau Lv75 DMG 39 Delay 176
Peeler Lv75 DMG 24 Delay 201
((33+24)*60)/((176+201)*.85)
3420/320.45
3420/320.45= 10.67

Theorhetically you can hurt your DPS by going /nin or /dnc, but only with very poor gear

However i love playing /war because of the double attacks and triple attacks. so much more fun to watch my character

edit: removed Haste from the equation to make it a bit more drastic