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Pandemonium Warden was just killed by Apathy of Remora
Fairy.Tbest
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5490
By Fairy.Tbest 2009-01-19 11:55:56
You log off at 75%, 50%, and 25% to avoid the massive Astral Flows from 9 Avatars. I for one see nothing wrong with logging out at all because you have a few choices here as far as I can see with absolutely zero PW experience myself... #1: Stun every avatar as well as PW at 75% IF they can even be stunned. #2: You run so far out of range that you're not hit by the AF's (Provided it doesn't have Draw-In which as far as I know it doesn't. And I'm not clear where exactly he summons the avatars to AF. I know everyone with hate gets hit whether in the Alliance or not.. But not the radius of AF or how he targets/centers.) #3: You ALL die to AF and then Reraise up and 'try' to stay alive while everyone's weakness wears off. Which didn't they do some of that with a lot of blu's spamming buffs/reraise/cannonball at one point? O.oa
Anyway... Of those three.. I'd probably choose to have the majority log out and then log back in to avoid potential EXP loss as well as time lost from weakness.
Now all of you that are complaining and saying they're not the best b/c they took down something you couldn't, stfu.
And btw... Congratulations Apathy. =)
Remora.Kindle
サーバ: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 458
By Remora.Kindle 2009-01-19 19:16:37
GO US!
Ifrit.Haseyo
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1755
By Ifrit.Haseyo 2009-01-19 19:20:14
Tbest said: You log off at 75%, 50%, and 25% to avoid the massive Astral Flows from 9 Avatars. I for one see nothing wrong with logging out at all because you have a few choices here as far as I can see with absolutely zero PW experience myself... #1: Stun every avatar as well as PW at 75% IF they can even be stunned. #2: You run so far out of range that you're not hit by the AF's (Provided it doesn't have Draw-In which as far as I know it doesn't. And I'm not clear where exactly he summons the avatars to AF. I know everyone with hate gets hit whether in the Alliance or not.. But not the radius of AF or how he targets/centers.) #3: You ALL die to AF and then Reraise up and 'try' to stay alive while everyone's weakness wears off. Which didn't they do some of that with a lot of blu's spamming buffs/reraise/cannonball at one point? O.oa Anyway... Of those three.. I'd probably choose to have the majority log out and then log back in to avoid potential EXP loss as well as time lost from weakness. Now all of you that are complaining and saying they're not the best b/c they took down something you couldn't, stfu. And btw... Congratulations Apathy. =) But the fact that you have to do something like that is just ridiculous on SE's part. It still doesn't make it a legit kill, point blank.
Pandemonium.Krebons
サーバ: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 170
By Pandemonium.Krebons 2009-01-19 20:08:45
grats guys, someone used thier heads, think outside the box right
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2838
By Shiva.Artemicion 2009-01-19 22:34:59
Now that I really think about it. It's not too farfetched to log out as a method of avoiding what would most likely be certain doom / wipe. After all it's a common tactic used for when someone accidently calls for help, or someone gets way too much enmity for their own good, etc. As far as i'm concerned as long as hacks or whacky glitches weren't (remember the AV wall trick?) used to exploit and defeat it, I call it legit.
Ifrit.Haseyo
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1755
By Ifrit.Haseyo 2009-01-19 22:53:49
Although all together we shouldn't have to resort to such tactics is what I'm talking about, bad on SE's development.
It may be the only way, but it's still not legit reguardless. (atleast in my eyes)
Leviathan.Celestinia
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 568
By Leviathan.Celestinia 2009-01-19 22:56:16
Seems like it's back to the drawing board for SE to create another "undefeatable NM" XD
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2838
By Shiva.Artemicion 2009-01-19 23:09:45
I have a feeling there's a more direct and intended way to kill it but certainly more than one way aside from that to defeat it. I'm sure if SE saw this battle they'd say something along the lines of: "Oh, well, I guess you could do that too..."
I have faith they'll make another NM with obscure or arcane methods of defeating really tough NM bosses. I mean, I wonder how many Odin runs it took to figure out that kneeling before his monologue 2hr would spare your life?
Leviathan.Celestinia
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 568
By Leviathan.Celestinia 2009-01-19 23:20:17
Artemicion said: I wonder how many Odin runs it took to figure out that kneeling before his monologue 2hr would spare your life? This is true. I wonder if they did see people logging as a means of escaping the Astral flow or not ... either way you can guarentee the big boss in the next expansion pack they release will have that covered lol I also wonder if the developers sat down with thier perfect party setup and managed to defeat it with a more conventional means O.o well the challenge is out there for people who don't want to do the logout tactic to prove themselves =D I so want to run a ZNM shell to beat this guy
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1907
By Leviathan.Quetzacoatl 2009-01-20 01:36:57
Couldn't believe it myself when I heard this saturday night. Congrats, Apathy! Celestinia said: Seems like it's back to the drawing board for SE to create another "undefeatable NM" XD Absolute Virtue still remains undefeatable by conventional means. Honestly though, it just sounds like you need two or three top-notch alliances to hold him down. SE needs to be more blunt with their hints too, because the one they gave us practically said nothing.
Odin.Genja
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 17
By Odin.Genja 2009-01-20 02:37:29
I rly don´t get you guys.
only a few agree with me, that this win means nothing. it happend through cheating. this win did never happen in my opinion.
I mean... is this the american way of life?!
You march into a poor country and blow away rusty buckets with an abrahms tank and you are proud of your win. you survive PW by logging and and you are proud of your win.
this win is a shame nothing more
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2838
By Shiva.Artemicion 2009-01-20 02:59:28
Genja said: I rly don´t get you guys.
only a few agree with me, that this win means nothing. it happend through cheating. this win did never happen in my opinion.
I mean... is this the american way of life?!
You march into a poor country and blow away rusty buckets with an abrahms tank and you are proud of your win. you survive PW by logging and and you are proud of your win.
this win is a shame nothing more Considering neither of us have actually fought it before. We really have no true say in what is right or wrong. For all we know, and I'm merely assuming; they logged out to avoid which would certainly be an unavoidable doom/wipe with it's 9 avatar astral flow.
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-01-20 05:25:02
Genja said: I mean... is this the american way of life?! GTFO Moron. This isn't an American only game! How do you know that it's not supposed to be killed by logging out? The two hour time limit doesn't exactly provide a cushion of time to withstand the constant Astral Flows, somehow kite or hold it whilst everyone unweakens. Nine astral flows, did I read correctly? So that's about six minutes per Astral Flow to unweaken, so an hour of the two hours is spent unweakening. Even if there's not nine, just take into account the ~six minutes for an alliance to unweaken per Astral Flow that they decide to "heroically" and "unshamefully" take to the face. Heroic? More like stupid. Anyway, do the maths, and when it's been killed fifty times without logging out, feel free to come back and QQ that they cheated about it. Genja said: this win is a shame nothing more A shame? Hardly. Every linkshell across every server now has a rough idea of how to win this themselves, if they didn't already. People will also talk about how "That Apathy of Remora" were the first shell to defeat Pandemonium Warden. A shame? Hardly... Genja said: You march into a poor country and blow away rusty buckets with an abrahms tank and you are proud of your win. LOL, you're too much.
サーバ: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 80
By Remora.Mitsurughy 2009-01-20 06:09:42
Wooooodum said:
Nine astral flows, did I read correctly? So that's about six minutes per Astral Flow to unweaken, so an hour of the two hours is spent unweakening
Lol :) you got a misunderstanding. 9 AF is in 1 time, all 9 avatars are there to blow you away :)
サーバ: Garuda
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6310
By Garuda.Wooooodum 2009-01-20 06:21:56
Mitsurughy said: Wooooodum said:
Nine astral flows, did I read correctly? So that's about six minutes per Astral Flow to unweaken, so an hour of the two hours is spent unweakening
Lol :) you got a misunderstanding. 9 AF is in 1 time, all 9 avatars are there to blow you away :) O_O That must hurt, chances of Shadow Ring proc'ing nine consecutive times? Uh... 1/4 uh... Nonagoned? <.< Well anyway, I'm sure that nobody would survive that, so that's an instant ~six minutes waiting to unweaken. Point still stands! :p
Cerberus.Bikpik
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 47
By Cerberus.Bikpik 2009-01-20 07:56:37
Until SE comes outs and says that PW wasn't supposed to be killed this way, then it's a legit kill. Nobody here works for SE so there's no way for anybody to know that this wasn't the way they intended, was can speculate that it's not the correct way, but we can't know 100% until SE tells us.
And besides, getting to final form with enough time to log out to avoid AF is pretty damn impressive imo.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2617
By Sylph.Hitetsu 2009-01-20 08:05:43
Bikpik said: And besides, getting to final form with enough time to log out to avoid AF is pretty damn impressive imo. How many forms exactly did it go through? (I'm not in any ZNM LS or anything like that, I doubt I'll ever bother going after T4 ZNM's, let alone PW.. I just like knowing stuff like this >.>) Did SE lower PW's HP or something? Just thinking about the BTL fight that took 18hr and got a lot of media attention. Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but they went through 20(ish) forms in 18 hours? Just curious to know what sort of adjustment SE made to this in that update. But yeah, congratulations on the win. Even if it wasn't meant to be done by logging, you came up with a quick solution to a problem, deserves at least a pat on the back =P
Remora.Kindle
サーバ: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 458
By Remora.Kindle 2009-01-20 08:33:36
Hitetsu said: Bikpik said: And besides, getting to final form with enough time to log out to avoid AF is pretty damn impressive imo. How many forms exactly did it go through? For FFXIah.com this the only one ive seen. Your welcome!
Ifrit.Haseyo
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1755
By Ifrit.Haseyo 2009-01-20 09:05:00
Kindle said: Hitetsu said: Bikpik said: And besides, getting to final form with enough time to log out to avoid AF is pretty damn impressive imo. How many forms exactly did it go through? For FFXIah.com this the only one ive seen. Your welcome! Forms, not forums.
Midgardsormr.Michelob
サーバ: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22
By Midgardsormr.Michelob 2009-01-20 09:57:57
Hitetsu said: Did SE lower PW's HP or something? Just thinking about the BTL fight that took 18hr and got a lot of media attention. Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but they went through 20(ish) forms in 18 hours? Just curious to know what sort of adjustment SE made to this in that update. Yeah, they lowered the HP of both PW and AV and limited them to 2 hour fights in an update following BTLs 18 hour fight which prompted the mass zergings of AV until he was patched to gain a resistance to souleater damage.
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 69
By Siren.Khellendros 2009-01-20 10:55:56
Genja said: I rly don´t get you guys.
only a few agree with me, that this win means nothing. it happend through cheating. this win did never happen in my opinion.
I mean... is this the american way of life?!
You march into a poor country and blow away rusty buckets with an abrahms tank and you are proud of your win. you survive PW by logging and and you are proud of your win.
this win is a shame nothing more I'll repeat myself from the first page: If all you can do is complain about the way they won, go find us a better method or put the foot back in your mouth.
Ifrit.Haseyo
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1755
By Ifrit.Haseyo 2009-01-20 11:10:05
The whole logging thing is an exploit. It was a victory from an exploit. Personally, I cannot congratulate that.
Leviathan.Crosis
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 83
By Leviathan.Crosis 2009-01-20 11:17:56
I wish i kissed as much *** as certain people in this thread
Ifrit.Artore
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1
By Ifrit.Artore 2009-01-20 11:21:28
Congrats to Apathy for doing this, exploit or not, this is an awsome acomplishment.
Haseyo do you seriously need to come back and say the same damn thing every time you come on? Everybody got your point, you cant congratulate it, go back in your hole.
Ifrit.Haseyo
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1755
By Ifrit.Haseyo 2009-01-20 11:25:04
Appearently not, seeing others are repeating as well. (or just not reading at all)
Midgardsormr.Frobeus
サーバ: Midgardsormr
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1498
By Midgardsormr.Frobeus 2009-01-20 11:32:28
Haseyo said: The whole logging thing is an exploit. It was a victory from an exploit. Personally, I cannot congratulate that. Sorry, but logging out of ffxi is not an exploit in ffxi. Hard to exploit an online game, when you aren't even logged on.
Ifrit.Haseyo
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1755
By Ifrit.Haseyo 2009-01-20 12:31:20
Maybe exploit wasn't the right word. Let's try this:
You are playing a game against a huge boss. Right before it lands a huge attack, you put in an invincibily code, then take it off after it is over. Does that somewhat make the victory legit?
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2617
By Sylph.Hitetsu 2009-01-20 12:53:47
Haseyo said: Maybe exploit wasn't the right word. Let's try this:
You are playing a game against a huge boss. Right before it lands a huge attack, you put in an invincibily code, then take it off after it is over. Does that somewhat make the victory legit? No. But, if you found a way to negate the damage that doesn't alter game mechanics (like using an Invincibility code would do), then yes, I'd classify that as a legitimate win. Such as the Emerald Weapon fight from FF7. How many people are likely to have killed it, without using cheats, using a full set of 20(ish) materia equipped to each character? Taking off materia to avoid one of it's abilities isn't doing anything to a game mechanic, it's simply a method to avoid it's most powerful ability. By logging out in FFXI, you aren't changing anything the game won't let you do, and as such, you're simply finding a solution to a problem. Whether or not it was "How SE thought it should be dealt with", I doubt anyone on here is likely to know until at least next Fanfest.
Leviathan.Webjester
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 394
By Leviathan.Webjester 2009-01-20 12:57:52
re: logging out
Its a novel approach to avoiding a mass wipe, especially since you know the intervals at which the AF will go off. Given SE's answer to the community uproar about the "18 hour fight", it somehow seems fitting that part of the method used to defeat it (this time) involved logging out of the game.
Kudos!
Pandemonium Warden was just killed by Apathy of Remora, Shenlong's and Hachiryu Body have been Confirmed Drops!
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